Wazua
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Centum HY 2016 profit up 55% comprehensive income down 76%
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
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I fail to get answer on one thing, why does this guy enjoy conning people? Why can't he earn a descent earning in life. All his record is all about conning. Latest is last year when he cooked his books to sell tiger or haco to south Africans .what's wrong with this guy. No wonder he is single flouting with young girls
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2014 Posts: 1,420 Location: Bohemian Grove
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enyands wrote:I fail to get answer on one thing, why does this guy enjoy conning people? Why can't he earn a descent earning in life. All his record is all about conning. Latest is last year when he cooked his books to sell tiger or haco to south Africans .what's wrong with this guy. No wonder he is single flouting with young girls Nothing is wrong with him.That's how things roll in a bandit econ.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
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Ask the question the other way round, why do people enjoy being conned. They always have a choice to make
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,102 Location: Nairobi
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whiteowl wrote:enyands wrote:I fail to get answer on one thing, why does this guy enjoy conning people? Why can't he earn a descent earning in life. All his record is all about conning. Latest is last year when he cooked his books to sell tiger or haco to south Africans .what's wrong with this guy. No wonder he is single flouting with young girls Nothing is wrong with him.That's how things roll in a bandit econ. The CJ agrees. http://africanarguments....f-justice-willy-mutunga/Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/1/2013 Posts: 257
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Old Mutual injects Sh6.4bn in Centum Two Rivers Mall http://www.businessdaily...4/-/jjidh5/-/index.html
Centum seeks more shares of Coca-Cola bottling firms http://www.businessdaily.../-/uktig9z/-/index.html
Notice a change of strategy here..centum HY2016 was decimal compared to the 2015FY.Increasing their stake in Almasi will have some impact on its income statement unlike clinging to their holding stake at two rivers which will take time to unlock the funds. No diagnosis,no pragnosis,no pragnosis no profit......Jesse livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2008 Posts: 1,438
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I think guys are too quick to dismiss Centum's ability to generate superior returns on its ventures purely on the basis of one transaction.
Like Chris Kirubi or not, I think the board and management of Centum are a pretty sharp lot and their track record speaks for itself.
The deal with Old Mutual in my view is actually positive in terms of value creation. Note that Centum is ceding stakes in the Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC) not Two Rivers Development Ltd (TRDL) which are two different entities. Whereas Centum is going to lose out on future revenue streams from rentals in TRLC, it realizes value now through the stake sold to Old Mutual. The cash that Centum would otherwise have had to invest in TRLC can be applied to other ventures such as the rest of TRDL and/other Centum projects, of which there is no shortage.
See the quote below from the Centum Press Release for further clarity.
Old Mutual’s property division, Old Mutual Property (OMP) has invested Kenya Shillings 6.4 Billion in Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC), the holding company for the Two Rivers Mall, in a landmark deal that was arranged solely by Nabo Capital.The Two Rivers Mall, sitting on 10.2 acres, is part of the larger 102 acre master-planned Two Rivers Development.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,183 Location: nairobi
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mwanahisa wrote:I think guys are too quick to dismiss Centum's ability to generate superior returns on its ventures purely on the basis of one transaction.
Like Chris Kirubi or not, I think the board and management of Centum are a pretty sharp lot and their track record speaks for itself.
The deal with Old Mutual in my view is actually positive in terms of value creation. Note that Centum is ceding stakes in the Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC) not Two Rivers Development Ltd (TRDL) which are two different entities. Whereas Centum is going to lose out on future revenue streams from rentals in TRLC, it realizes value now through the stake sold to Old Mutual. The cash that Centum would otherwise have had to invest in TRLC can be applied to other ventures such as the rest of TRDL and/other Centum projects, of which there is no shortage.
See the quote below from the Centum Press Release for further clarity.
Old Mutual’s property division, Old Mutual Property (OMP) has invested Kenya Shillings 6.4 Billion in Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC), the holding company for the Two Rivers Mall, in a landmark deal that was arranged solely by Nabo Capital.The Two Rivers Mall, sitting on 10.2 acres, is part of the larger 102 acre master-planned Two Rivers Development. iam waiting for it below 40 but the price looks headed up,to me partnering with giant's means you can be trusted "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,102 Location: Nairobi
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mwanahisa wrote:I think guys are too quick to dismiss Centum's ability to generate superior returns on its ventures purely on the basis of one transaction.
Like Chris Kirubi or not, I think the board and management of Centum are a pretty sharp lot and their track record speaks for itself.
The deal with Old Mutual in my view is actually positive in terms of value creation. Note that Centum is ceding stakes in the Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC) not Two Rivers Development Ltd (TRDL) which are two different entities. Whereas Centum is going to lose out on future revenue streams from rentals in TRLC, it realizes value now through the stake sold to Old Mutual. The cash that Centum would otherwise have had to invest in TRLC can be applied to other ventures such as the rest of TRDL and/other Centum projects, of which there is no shortage.
See the quote below from the Centum Press Release for further clarity.
Old Mutual’s property division, Old Mutual Property (OMP) has invested Kenya Shillings 6.4 Billion in Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC), the holding company for the Two Rivers Mall, in a landmark deal that was arranged solely by Nabo Capital.The Two Rivers Mall, sitting on 10.2 acres, is part of the larger 102 acre master-planned Two Rivers Development. James Mworia is very sharp. And a nice guy as far as I can tell. You have a good point. What Centum needs to do is provide a flowchart that shows the ownership of these entities so a sale of 50% of TRLC doesn't seem like a sale of its parent TRDL. TRLC is just a one part of TRDL. There's a lot more going on. Though as I have mentioned earlier. If you do not trust the Management... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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By the time DJ will be through with 'us' Wnjiko, the larger 102 acre master-planned Two Rivers Development Centum owns will be a mirrage. Let us compare notes in another 5 years!!! Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/7/2010 Posts: 251 Location: nairobi
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madebe wrote:Spikes wrote:Othelo wrote:Spikes wrote:madebe wrote:even with the debate about who is shafting who,,,,i haven't seen an official statement from either centum or old mutual. is there anyone with an official statement and not the romour placed by Bd???Centum have been good on communication... @madebe Bd is an authoritative newspaper which keeps investors informed. They don't spread rumours they are just messengers. Most decisions Wazuans make are based on reports by Bd news plus indepth look into a company's metrics. Shafting continues. Centum also like 'planting' stories in BD. Yes Centum do plant sweet stories but Wazuans are clever enough to uproot them before they bear fruits to conmen. until i log into centum.co.ke and see the story ill take it like arsenal being quoted they want to by messi by the sun.co.uk Now we have the official statement from centum. My simple reading is that centum has sold 50% of the area where the mall(10.2 acres-including the buildings) out of the 100 acres. The remaining area is left for other businesses(residential,hotel,hospital etc). The 6.4 billion is for approx 5 acres (50% of 10.2 acres) valuing whole plot at approx 100 Billion. Not bad for value creation. The only help i need from wazua, who has the organogram for the property business of centum
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
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VituVingiSana wrote:mwanahisa wrote:I think guys are too quick to dismiss Centum's ability to generate superior returns on its ventures purely on the basis of one transaction.
Like Chris Kirubi or not, I think the board and management of Centum are a pretty sharp lot and their track record speaks for itself.
The deal with Old Mutual in my view is actually positive in terms of value creation. Note that Centum is ceding stakes in the Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC) not Two Rivers Development Ltd (TRDL) which are two different entities. Whereas Centum is going to lose out on future revenue streams from rentals in TRLC, it realizes value now through the stake sold to Old Mutual. The cash that Centum would otherwise have had to invest in TRLC can be applied to other ventures such as the rest of TRDL and/other Centum projects, of which there is no shortage.
See the quote below from the Centum Press Release for further clarity.
Old Mutual’s property division, Old Mutual Property (OMP) has invested Kenya Shillings 6.4 Billion in Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC), the holding company for the Two Rivers Mall, in a landmark deal that was arranged solely by Nabo Capital.The Two Rivers Mall, sitting on 10.2 acres, is part of the larger 102 acre master-planned Two Rivers Development. James Mworia is very sharp. And a nice guy as far as I can tell. You have a good point. What Centum needs to do is provide a flowchart that shows the ownership of these entities so a sale of 50% of TRLC doesn't seem like a sale of its parent TRDL. TRLC is just a one part of TRDL. There's a lot more going on. Though as I have mentioned earlier. If you do not trust the Management... ....then don't put your money there . Track history speaks for itself especially disc jockey.you can tell a doctor from a child in class 8 same applies to a thug. link
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/18/2011 Posts: 448
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madebe wrote:madebe wrote:Spikes wrote:Othelo wrote:Spikes wrote:madebe wrote:even with the debate about who is shafting who,,,,i haven't seen an official statement from either centum or old mutual. is there anyone with an official statement and not the romour placed by Bd???Centum have been good on communication... @madebe Bd is an authoritative newspaper which keeps investors informed. They don't spread rumours they are just messengers. Most decisions Wazuans make are based on reports by Bd news plus indepth look into a company's metrics. Shafting continues. Centum also like 'planting' stories in BD. Yes Centum do plant sweet stories but Wazuans are clever enough to uproot them before they bear fruits to conmen. until i log into centum.co.ke and see the story ill take it like arsenal being quoted they want to by messi by the sun.co.uk Now we have the official statement from centum. My simple reading is that centum has sold 50% of the area where the mall(10.2 acres-including the buildings) out of the 100 acres. The remaining area is left for other businesses(residential,hotel,hospital etc). The 6.4 billion is for approx 5 acres (50% of 10.2 acres) valuing whole plot at approx 100 Billion. Not bad for value creation. The only help i need from wazua, who has the organogram for the property business of centum Madebe flawed valuation at play and that's what most people believe. They paid for 5 acres with a mall/structure that is half complete. The rest of the 90 acres has nothing on it thus you cannot value it at 90 Billion now! i'd say it's 90 acres times 40 million an acre 3.6 Billion. Two Rivers is a long term project considering what is left to be done in the subsequent phases. These guys shall play tricks to source financing to finish the rest of it and that's when the cookie might crumble.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,102 Location: Nairobi
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enyands wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:mwanahisa wrote:I think guys are too quick to dismiss Centum's ability to generate superior returns on its ventures purely on the basis of one transaction.
Like Chris Kirubi or not, I think the board and management of Centum are a pretty sharp lot and their track record speaks for itself.
The deal with Old Mutual in my view is actually positive in terms of value creation. Note that Centum is ceding stakes in the Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC) not Two Rivers Development Ltd (TRDL) which are two different entities. Whereas Centum is going to lose out on future revenue streams from rentals in TRLC, it realizes value now through the stake sold to Old Mutual. The cash that Centum would otherwise have had to invest in TRLC can be applied to other ventures such as the rest of TRDL and/other Centum projects, of which there is no shortage.
See the quote below from the Centum Press Release for further clarity.
Old Mutual’s property division, Old Mutual Property (OMP) has invested Kenya Shillings 6.4 Billion in Two Rivers Lifestyle Centre (TRLC), the holding company for the Two Rivers Mall, in a landmark deal that was arranged solely by Nabo Capital.The Two Rivers Mall, sitting on 10.2 acres, is part of the larger 102 acre master-planned Two Rivers Development. James Mworia is very sharp. And a nice guy as far as I can tell. You have a good point. What Centum needs to do is provide a flowchart that shows the ownership of these entities so a sale of 50% of TRLC doesn't seem like a sale of its parent TRDL. TRLC is just a one part of TRDL. There's a lot more going on. Though as I have mentioned earlier. If you do not trust the Management... ....then don't put your money there . Track history speaks for itself especially disc jockey.you can tell a doctor from a child in class 8 same applies to a thug. link Exactly! Instead of regretting it afterwards, just don't invest in Centum. I got burnt in Olympia & KQ. I stayed away from HAFR so I watch with bemusement folks who trusted the untrustworthy. Once in a while one may make money off a bandia firm but that's speculation which I do not engage in. I want to buy & hold. Warren Buffett style. I want to become rich, not make my broker rich! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
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Just read the story about cartels by willy mutunga.there is this mp from central who had been fighting cartels wa kahawa. To see the magnitude of the cartels, the mpigs who were to discuss the issue are carefully dodging discussing the issue in bunge,... they cartels compromised them .kenya ni noma.i didn't expect a whole cj would come against his same govt. I like willy mutunga and as iv said before most Kenyans who were trained "outside kenya" are usually very honest and elite. If not wrong mutunga went to usa for his PhD or something ....product is pure honesty.but DJ man he is something else .... I have nothing personal against this guy . He just shafted me big time during the ICDC Uchumi thing kitambo and iv never forgotten it. I invested in Centum but when I came to hear he is the head,the prices had dropped way beyond what I bought .now I'm clinging on golden handcuffs on my wrist waiting to be free once I get my buying price .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
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madebe wrote: until i log into centum.co.ke and see the story ill take it like arsenal being quoted they want to by messi by the sun.co.uk
Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,102 Location: Nairobi
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mibbz wrote:madebe wrote:madebe wrote:Spikes wrote:Othelo wrote:Spikes wrote:madebe wrote:even with the debate about who is shafting who,,,,i haven't seen an official statement from either centum or old mutual. is there anyone with an official statement and not the romour placed by Bd???Centum have been good on communication... @madebe Bd is an authoritative newspaper which keeps investors informed. They don't spread rumours they are just messengers. Most decisions Wazuans make are based on reports by Bd news plus indepth look into a company's metrics. Shafting continues. Centum also like 'planting' stories in BD. Yes Centum do plant sweet stories but Wazuans are clever enough to uproot them before they bear fruits to conmen. until i log into centum.co.ke and see the story ill take it like arsenal being quoted they want to by messi by the sun.co.uk Now we have the official statement from centum. My simple reading is that centum has sold 50% of the area where the mall(10.2 acres-including the buildings) out of the 100 acres. The remaining area is left for other businesses(residential,hotel,hospital etc). The 6.4 billion is for approx 5 acres (50% of 10.2 acres) valuing whole plot at approx 100 Billion. Not bad for value creation. The only help i need from wazua, who has the organogram for the property business of centum Madebe flawed valuation at play and that's what most people believe. They paid for 5 acres with a mall/structure that is half complete. The rest of the 90 acres has nothing on it thus you cannot value it at 90 Billion now! i'd say it's 90 acres times 40 million an acre 3.6 Billion. Two Rivers is a long term project considering what is left to be done in the subsequent phases. These guys shall play tricks to source financing to finish the rest of it and that's when the cookie might crumble. Yes! Centum hasn't sold 5 'undeveloped' acres but 50% of a PROJECT [that happens to sit on 10 acres] that consists of a (half-completed) structure with many tenants signed up AND infrastructure [roads, lighting, security] to bring customers to the tenants. OMP is going to give a LOAN to TRML which will help complete the building & there's an option [as I understand it] to convert the loan into NEW shares worth 40% of the shareholding of TRML. Perhaps, just like TCL or ARM, if OMP feels the value isn't there they could decline taking up the 40% & ask for a Loan repayment. The South Africans aren't fools. OM is no fool either. They will probably make sure that the 6.4bn goes into the Mall and not other Centum projects that have nothing to do with TRML. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2007 Posts: 53
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Pesa Nane wrote:madebe wrote: until i log into centum.co.ke and see the story ill take it like arsenal being quoted they want to by messi by the sun.co.uk
According to their books in FY2014 ,NOTE 18 they held 100% of TRLD and TRLC ...OK But in FY2015 ,Note 20 they held 58% in both TRLD and TRLC thanks to AVIC... How can they now claim they owned 100% in TRLC yet just last reporting period it was 58%.... Saidia hapa kama nimepotea
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
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dsktop wrote:Pesa Nane wrote:madebe wrote: until i log into centum.co.ke and see the story ill take it like arsenal being quoted they want to by messi by the sun.co.uk
According to their books in FY2014 ,NOTE 18 they held 100% of TRLD and TRLC ...OK But in FY2015 ,Note 20 they held 58% in both TRLD and TRLC thanks to AVIC... How can they now claim they owned 100% in TRLC yet just last reporting period it was 58%.... Saidia hapa kama nimepotea so the Old mutual = 50% then the Chinese AVIC= 38.9%total = 88.9% meaning centum will own 11.1% Ama mimi sielewi hii hesabu "UK-based multinational Old Mutual in January invested Sh6.4 billion in the project, giving it an equivalent 50 per cent stake. Centum last April also said that a Chinese firm, Aviation Industry Corporation of China (Avic), had invested $70 million (Sh7.1 billion) in Two Rivers for a 38.9 per cent stake. Besides the equity investment, Avic is also the main contractor for the project. State-owned investment firm ICDC, which has a 23 per cent stake in Centum, made a $5 million (Sh462.5 million) equity investment while Co-operative Bank contributed Sh7.2 billion in debt funding for the project." Also note there could be other players in for the 11.1% and so I should expect their stake to be much much lower/ Link
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 257
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enyands wrote:dsktop wrote:Pesa Nane wrote:madebe wrote: until i log into centum.co.ke and see the story ill take it like arsenal being quoted they want to by messi by the sun.co.uk
According to their books in FY2014 ,NOTE 18 they held 100% of TRLD and TRLC ...OK But in FY2015 ,Note 20 they held 58% in both TRLD and TRLC thanks to AVIC... How can they now claim they owned 100% in TRLC yet just last reporting period it was 58%.... Saidia hapa kama nimepotea so the Old mutual = 50% then the Chinese AVIC= 38.9%total = 88.9% meaning centum will own 11.1% Ama mimi sielewi hii hesabu "UK-based multinational Old Mutual in January invested Sh6.4 billion in the project, giving it an equivalent 50 per cent stake. Centum last April also said that a Chinese firm, Aviation Industry Corporation of China (Avic), had invested $70 million (Sh7.1 billion) in Two Rivers for a 38.9 per cent stake. Besides the equity investment, Avic is also the main contractor for the project. State-owned investment firm ICDC, which has a 23 per cent stake in Centum, made a $5 million (Sh462.5 million) equity investment while Co-operative Bank contributed Sh7.2 billion in debt funding for the project." Also note there could be other players in for the 11.1% and so I should expect their stake to be much much lower/ Link Reading the cautionary announcement, Old mutual invested in TRLC with an eventual targeted shareholding of 50%. The remaining 50% will be owned by TRDL. Meanwhile TRDL is owned 58% by centum, 39% by avic-jvc and the rest (3%) by ICDC. That is how I interpreted the announcement. Now to the part where I speculate...It seems TRLC owns the two rivers mall only while TRDL covers the entire two rivers development. There is even a possibility there are other companies held under TRDL to cover other parts of the project (hotel, office block etc) similar to TRLC.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,684 Location: NAIROBI
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In summary; Old Mutual owns 50% stake in the Mall Centum owns 29% stake in the mall AVIC 19.45% ICDC 1.55% Total shareholding in TRLC sums up to 100%. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Centum HY 2016 profit up 55% comprehensive income down 76%
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