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Living within the fence
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:infinitely whole or wholly infinite? Why 'or' not, 'and'? 'Maybe "sometimes"?'
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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Hallo!
I am enjoying this!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/17/2013 Posts: 4,693 Location: Earth
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# FOLLOWING# 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Ngong wrote:Hallo!
I am enjoying this! Hello. What's happening here? Si shiki! Lol.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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tycho wrote: I see your point. Most sincere apologies.
Let's start with what 'Freud says'. There's a 'personality'. Personality implies 'being'. And 'being' has three 'parts'. The 'id', the 'ego', and 'Super ego'.
Now step back and see that Freud is giving us a 'metaphor' that 'dis-integrates' being into three.
Freud is explaining the processes that take place within the individual. It is not breaking down the being into three distinct parts and consolidating them together. With your indulgence, let me give you an analogy. We all know that the body is one. But the body has various parts which perform different functions. All these body parts work in harmony for the well-being of the individual. If someone explains the activities of the digestive system, the activities of the nervous system, and how they interact with one another, it does not mean that the person is breaking the body into independent parts, rather it is explaining how interdependent the various body systems are. This is what Freud is doing.
By Freud asserting that 'Where id is, ego must be' he is asking us to 'integrate' ourselves.
Read my points above.
Question; what are we to do with the 'Super ego'? Freud was simply asserting that one needed to use the light of the 'Super ego', via the ego, to 'reconcile' the 'id'.
Being entails a struggle against the 'dark forces' of the 'Id'.
When one 'overcomes' the 'id' with the 'light', then he/she is made 'whole'.
The ego looks 'up' to the 'super ego' for 'help' on this 'task'.
But the ego is always under the influence of the id. How can one succeed in the task? Through sacrificing the ego.
The id is 'defeated'. Now there's freedom. No fence.
The 'Psychoanalytic process' must be transcended.
If I got you right, the ultimate aim is to gain freedom. Well, nothing wrong with this. But I don't agree with your process. Is it possible to shut down the id and the super ego and remain completely oblivious to them? I don't think so. On one part, the brain is faced with aggressive desires (the id), and the other part is faced with the ideals (super-ego). The most sane thing to do is to reconcile the "wishes/desires" of the id with the "ideal" probabilities of the super-ego. There comes in the rationality (ego).
Again, how do you transcend? Is it important? Is it a one-off thing?
Is this a 'universal truth'? Look at the myths of the world, they resemble each other in above respect.
With respect to Freud and other scholars, look at them as sources of knowledge. You may agree or disagree with their "explanations." Nevertheless, you'll gain an insight into something that you could not see before.
Is this about 'domination' and 'Superiority'? No. It's about dancing with God. Being the wind.
I won't blame you. I'll seek to understand the motivation.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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InnovateGuy wrote:tycho wrote: I see your point. Most sincere apologies.
Let's start with what 'Freud says'. There's a 'personality'. Personality implies 'being'. And 'being' has three 'parts'. The 'id', the 'ego', and 'Super ego'.
Now step back and see that Freud is giving us a 'metaphor' that 'dis-integrates' being into three.
Freud is explaining the processes that take place within the individual. It is not breaking down the being into three distinct parts and consolidating them together. With your indulgence, let me give you an analogy. We all know that the body is one. But the body has various parts which perform different functions. All these body parts work in harmony for the well-being of the individual. If someone explains the activities of the digestive system, the activities of the nervous system, and how they interact with one another, it does not mean that the person is breaking the body into independent parts, rather it is explaining how interdependent the various body systems are. This is what Freud is doing.
By Freud asserting that 'Where id is, ego must be' he is asking us to 'integrate' ourselves.
Read my points above.
Question; what are we to do with the 'Super ego'? Freud was simply asserting that one needed to use the light of the 'Super ego', via the ego, to 'reconcile' the 'id'.
Being entails a struggle against the 'dark forces' of the 'Id'.
When one 'overcomes' the 'id' with the 'light', then he/she is made 'whole'.
The ego looks 'up' to the 'super ego' for 'help' on this 'task'.
But the ego is always under the influence of the id. How can one succeed in the task? Through sacrificing the ego.
The id is 'defeated'. Now there's freedom. No fence.
The 'Psychoanalytic process' must be transcended.
If I got you right, the ultimate aim is to gain freedom. Well, nothing wrong with this. But I don't agree with your process. Is it possible to shut down the id and the super ego and remain completely oblivious to them? I don't think so. On one part, the brain is faced with aggressive desires (the id), and the other part is faced with the ideals (super-ego). The most sane thing to do is to reconcile the "wishes/desires" of the id with the "ideal" probabilities of the super-ego. There comes in the rationality (ego).
Again, how do you transcend? Is it important? Is it a one-off thing?
Is this a 'universal truth'? Look at the myths of the world, they resemble each other in above respect.
With respect to Freud and other scholars, look at them as sources of knowledge. You may agree or disagree with their "explanations." Nevertheless, you'll gain an insight into something that you could not see before.
Is this about 'domination' and 'Superiority'? No. It's about dancing with God. Being the wind.
I won't blame you. I'll seek to understand the motivation.
The ideals of the super ego, are linked to the id. All analysis is breaking down. A good way of looking at the ultimate objective is to consider 'entropy'. Everything is from it, and going to it. 'It', is the 'id'. So we are looking at an inevitable process. All history is heading there. The only way is to be 'it'. This is life. Eternal life.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Innovate, Freud's work, and any other endeavor of those who care about humanity, and science, is about raising human consciousness.
The philosopher builds up, and we'd be irresponsible if we rested at Freud.
To understand 'transcendence' you need to look at how psychoanalysis is a form of therapy. 'Healing' is an instance of 'transcendance'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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The body is one but the mind is fragmented.This is a central theme from various religions and mythical stories.The id is the default 'program',the ego the audience/actor and the super-ego consciousness.Take the example of a child,a child operates mostly on the id but the nature of an operator is awareness thus it is inevitably drawn into consciousness.After which it begins to subdue the ids 'operating system'.Transcendence is the ego being conscious of the id and itself and not necessarily reconciliation of the fragments.The best example of this is individuals who take control of functions allocated to the unconscious,like controlling one's heart rate. Assuming that existence progresses from nothingness to infinity,where infinity plays out in a series of nows,we are living in infinity.Progress then can be identified within the nows as changes in perception,religion,society,science,politics...As I see it the ideals in the 'different' nows are the fences where individuals subscribe to live within.Now the question is,if God is infinitely whole and wholly infinite,where does that leave us.I ask because if He is complete in infinity and infinitely complete,doesn't it seem we are irrevocably converging to the Alpha and Omega? Matt 5:48 wrote:Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Romans 12:2 wrote:Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.
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