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IMF: Kenya's economy self reliant, don't need EU
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guru267
#71 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:17:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
CaptainGG wrote:
@Guru267;
I suspect you are an agent of CORD sent to propagate their propaganda in Wazua.


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Talk about being hilarious!! You just made my afternoon...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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guru267
#72 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:19:11 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then?


@liv here's the thing!

1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution...

2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate!

3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them??



@Guru,
Do you really know what our constitution say about the protection of the president from legal proceedings?

Article 143 deals with this matter. Sub-article(4) says:

The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is a party and which prohibits such immunity


What is your understanding of this sub -article... I guess it says the opposite of what you have said above.

In my opinion if UK becomes president he will have no option than to cooperate with ICC. The constitution removes any immunity with regard to protection from the ICC treaty to which Kenya is a signatory.


@liv Thanks a lot for the education... I was merely quoting someone credible on wazua about the constitution!

Sounds to me like you are ok with the west cutting ties so long as it doesn't carry the name "sanctions"??


@Guru,
What does "cutting ties down to essentials" mean?

I have heard about "maintaining only essential contacts with the ICC suspects"

Do these 2 mean the same?


Yeah.. I'm talking about the same thing!

So are you ok with that arrangement??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Lolest!
#73 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:22:28 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then?


@liv here's the thing!

1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution...

2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate!

3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them??



@Guru,
Do you really know what our constitution say about the protection of the president from legal proceedings?

Article 143 deals with this matter. Sub-article(4) says:

The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is a party and which prohibits such immunity


What is your understanding of this sub -article... I guess it says the opposite of what you have said above.

In my opinion if UK becomes president he will have no option than to cooperate with ICC. The constitution removes any immunity with regard to protection from the ICC treaty to which Kenya is a signatory.


@liv Thanks a lot for the education... I was merely quoting someone credible on wazua about the constitution!

Sounds to me like you are ok with the west cutting ties so long as it doesn't carry the name "sanctions"??


@Guru,
What does "cutting ties down to essentials" mean?

I have heard about "maintaining only essential contacts with the ICC suspects"

Do these 2 mean the same?

No they don't. They will keep away from Uhuruto but still deal with their Ministers. Very uneasy friendship.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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Liv
#74 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:25:49 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then?


@liv here's the thing!

1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution...

2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate!

3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them??



@Guru,
Do you really know what our constitution say about the protection of the president from legal proceedings?

Article 143 deals with this matter. Sub-article(4) says:

The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is a party and which prohibits such immunity


What is your understanding of this sub -article... I guess it says the opposite of what you have said above.

In my opinion if UK becomes president he will have no option than to cooperate with ICC. The constitution removes any immunity with regard to protection from the ICC treaty to which Kenya is a signatory.


@liv Thanks a lot for the education... I was merely quoting someone credible on wazua about the constitution!

Sounds to me like you are ok with the west cutting ties so long as it doesn't carry the name "sanctions"??


@Guru,
What does "cutting ties down to essentials" mean?

I have heard about "maintaining only essential contacts with the ICC suspects"

Do these 2 mean the same?


Yeah.. I'm talking about the same thing!

So are you ok with that arrangement??



The US & EU have said that they will maintain their policy. This policy says... maintaining only essential contacts with the ICC suspects.

This policy has been there since the 4 were indicted by ICC. Do you understand this to mean the same as sanctions like those slapped against President Mugambe and his ministers?
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Liv
#75 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:28:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
Lolest! wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then?


@liv here's the thing!

1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution...

2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate!

3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them??



@Guru,
Do you really know what our constitution say about the protection of the president from legal proceedings?

Article 143 deals with this matter. Sub-article(4) says:

The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is a party and which prohibits such immunity


What is your understanding of this sub -article... I guess it says the opposite of what you have said above.

In my opinion if UK becomes president he will have no option than to cooperate with ICC. The constitution removes any immunity with regard to protection from the ICC treaty to which Kenya is a signatory.


@liv Thanks a lot for the education... I was merely quoting someone credible on wazua about the constitution!

Sounds to me like you are ok with the west cutting ties so long as it doesn't carry the name "sanctions"??


@Guru,
What does "cutting ties down to essentials" mean?

I have heard about "maintaining only essential contacts with the ICC suspects"

Do these 2 mean the same?

No they don't. They will keep away from Uhuruto but still deal with their Ministers. Very uneasy friendship.


@Lolest,
That is my understanding too. So why are people shouting here that the "sky is falling"?
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accelriskconsult
#76 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:29:55 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
The key thing for me is investor confidence. Sanctions or not, cutting ties or not.

The performance of the Kenya shilling against the major world currencies and specifically the USD will be affected by investors' expectations on performance of the Kenyan economy. Sanctions need not be imposed on an economy to cripple it. A weakened shilling for a net importer will see Kenyans rallying in the streets in no time.
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Liv
#77 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:33:32 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
accelriskconsult wrote:
The key thing for me is investor confidence. Sanctions or not, cutting ties or not.

The performance of the Kenya shilling against the major world currencies and specifically the USD will be affected by investors' expectations on performance of the Kenyan economy. Sanctions need not be imposed on an economy to cripple it. A weakened shilling for a net importer will see Kenyans rallying in the streets in no time.



Why would investors fear the economy will not perform as expected?

Why will the Kenya shilling weaken...please argue using economic facts
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a4architect.com
#78 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:33:37 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
The current Govt has already started the 'maintaining only essential contacts' game till the EU envoys had to publicly complain.

http://www.dennisitumbi.com/?p=344

http://www.accessmylibra...mats-kenya-unhappy.html

EU diplomats in Kenya unhappy about president's "cold shoulder treatment".
BBC Monitoring International Reports
| March 31, 2012 | Copyright

Text of report by Wanjohi Githae entitled "Kibaki unreachable, EU dipomats claim" and puplished by Kenyan-owned daily newspaper The People on 31 March

Barely two weeks after President Kibaki's name was cited in a claim in Parliament seeking to show Britain was instigating an ICC investigation against him, the full extent of cold relations between him and European nations has emerged. In an exclusive revelation based on interviews with Euro zone diplomats, The People can reveal, most envoys of Kenya's traditional partners from the West are frustrated by what they perceive as Kibaki's deliberate cold shoulder treatment.

This shows that already Kenya can move/live on well with 'essential contact'.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:35 PM | Reason: Not specified
Liv
#79 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:38:46 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
a4architect.com wrote:
The current Govt has already started the 'maintaining only essential contacts' game till the EU envoys had to publicly complain.

http://www.dennisitumbi.com/?p=344

http://www.accessmylibra...mats-kenya-unhappy.html

EU diplomats in Kenya unhappy about president's "cold shoulder treatment".
BBC Monitoring International Reports
| March 31, 2012 | Copyright

Text of report by Wanjohi Githae entitled "Kibaki unreachable, EU dipomats claim" and puplished by Kenyan-owned daily newspaper The People on 31 March

Barely two weeks after President Kibaki's name was cited in a claim in Parliament seeking to show Britain was instigating an ICC investigation against him, the full extent of cold relations between him and European nations has emerged. In an exclusive revelation based on interviews with Euro zone diplomats, The People can reveal, most envoys of Kenya's traditional partners from the West are frustrated by what they perceive as Kibaki's deliberate cold shoulder treatment.

This shows that already Kenya can move/live on well with 'essential contact'.



@a4architect.com,
This has been the Policy of Kibaki regime....Maintaining only essential contact with EU. I guess Uhuruto will be happy to maintain the same.
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guru267
#80 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 4:05:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then?


@liv here's the thing!

1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution...

2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate!

3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them??



@Guru,
Do you really know what our constitution say about the protection of the president from legal proceedings?

Article 143 deals with this matter. Sub-article(4) says:

The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is a party and which prohibits such immunity


What is your understanding of this sub -article... I guess it says the opposite of what you have said above.

In my opinion if UK becomes president he will have no option than to cooperate with ICC. The constitution removes any immunity with regard to protection from the ICC treaty to which Kenya is a signatory.


@liv Thanks a lot for the education... I was merely quoting someone credible on wazua about the constitution!

Sounds to me like you are ok with the west cutting ties so long as it doesn't carry the name "sanctions"??


@Guru,
What does "cutting ties down to essentials" mean?

I have heard about "maintaining only essential contacts with the ICC suspects"

Do these 2 mean the same?


Yeah.. I'm talking about the same thing!

So are you ok with that arrangement??



The US & EU have said that they will maintain their policy. This policy says... maintaining only essential contacts with the ICC suspects


@liv

Currently the none of the four are in any ublic offices.. If Uhuru tried to remain in the finance ministry maybe we would have seen an example of what they can do..
In fact Uhuru leaving the finance ministry is a clear demonstration that both he and baks know that the west ain't playing!

Once they become president & deputy of Kenya everything changes!

1. Will the president of Kenya be able to attend UN summits?

2. Will the president of Kenya be be to attend Commonwealth meetings?

3. Will the president of Kenya be able to attend the annual world Economic forum??

4. Will the president of Kenya be able to attend AU meetings?!

etc etc etc etc etc

Even if there are no sanctions I don't need that drama...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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