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Bring our troops home
kollabo
#71 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 2:24:46 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 2/3/2012
Posts: 1,317
It would be worse were Kenya not in Somalia. Legitimate security interests.
guru267
#72 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 3:16:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Swenani wrote:

Are you implying that the border is not currently manned?


Yes... People can walk in an out as they choose at very many points!

Guru267, I think it is manned....What makes you think if we pull troops from Somalia will prevent people walking in ad out as they choose?

Continue thinking it is manned! To walk into Somalia all one has to do is make it to Lamu and you will literally walk in unnoticed with a guide!

Half of those troops in Somalia can man the whole of Kenya's border easily!
Large fences need to be built!

Someone just asked why Ethiopia, S.Sudan and Uganda were not invaded after plenty of attacks on Kenyans??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
quicksand
#73 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 4:28:17 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
We cant. And appear to capitulate to Al Shabaab? Not going to happen.
I am convinced that pressure was applied to the Kenyan govt to put boots on the ground by the US. They are there, behind the scenes, providing intelligence and materiel support. US taxpayers are wary of more wars, but are also embarrassed by appearing unable to control the lawlessness of a dirt poor country; Solution? Manoeuvre Kenya into the first line fighting position. Fait accompli. It is now very hard to back out. Uhuruto would be faced with very very stark choices if they tried. Realpolitik diplomacy, the US call it.
Which brings me to the second facet. These attacks are the ultimate price for our tribalism and corruption. Uganda is in Somalia as well. Not as many attacks as Kenya. Their moral fibre isn't as decayed as Kenya's. We are unable to elect people are not our tribesmen; cause they give us handouts, and we believe they will steer government resources and development to their kinsmen; the political vehicles that propel people to power are financed with ill gotten funds and are full of tribalists and corrupt, crooked individuals who have to be rewarded with posts where they wield power and have the opportunity to bleed institutions dry without fear of prosecution. Once institutions are paralyzed like this there is nothing left. A rotten leadership CANNOT impose morals on its ranks.
How is Lenku in charge of security? Unbelievable.
In summary, not having gone into (or pulling out of) Somalia wont stop the attacks. We had not invaded in 1998. There is no shortage of propaganda which these terrorists can use as justification. You use any tool available to fight them, and I see the strategy here as financial strangulation. Thats why world navies occupy Indian ocean waters and the Gulf of Oman to cut off revenue from piracy; the next move was occupy land to stop AlShabaab taxing, robbing people and businesses. If KDF had not done this, they would still have sources of income - making them more dangerous.
jokes
#74 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 5:12:28 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 323
AlphDoti wrote:
guru267 wrote:
MKWASI wrote:
before KDF went to Somalia. Kenya was being turned to another Somalia

Kindly please expand on this??

Was it turning into Somalia because of the handful of mzungus that were kidnapped in Lamu by God knows who?

All I know is that after the invasion Kenyans are bombed as they pray, as they shop, as they commute, as they eat, as they drink..

It is only after the invasion that I feel Nairobi turn into Mogadishu! Sad

I'm glad to see that at long last, people here are discussing solution options. This is commendable!

On the issue of KDF, we all know the facts.

1. DO you remember the killings of the Turkana people the year before invading Somalia, by Ethiopian raiders? Not one black person was killed, not one policeman was killed. But many, actually more than 300 Turkanas killed in one night! Did you hear our army follow the raiders? Did you hear the government declare war? No of course!

2. Back to Migingo, Uganda is still sitting on it. Do you know boundary issue is one reason to go to war with a country? But have we? No of course!

3. Remember just before the creation of new South Sudan, a consignment of military arms left the port of Mombasa for South Sudan?
First the government lied that the consignment belonged to Kenya army. Next thing we saw was Kenyan government escorting the same to South Sudan. Why were they arming South Sudan? Who had the interest? Kenya? Thank God those people agreed on the boundary and split!

4. Then pirates hijacked a group of tourists. Unfortunately, whereabouts of one woman was unknown. You know what happened after this? Kenya went to war with Somalia. And this is what is duped "Operation Linda Nchi".

Really? You mean, just because of one mzungu? What about the Turkanas? Mmmm... the Turkanas were just dogs[/color] (subhanaAllah)

[color=red]IT WAS OPERATION LINDA MZUNGU


Turkanas were just dogs

Hapo ume-enda sana Apha,
I think you should apologize.

1st the operation Linda nchi was planned long before the actual event.
Resources were set aside and parliamentary approval sought while avoiding piracy sympathizers in parliament.

such operations require planning, intelligence gathering and money for execution.
its not an ad-hoc operation.
that's recipe for disaster.

if you are advocating for the army to withdraw i can tell you its never gonna happen until there is peace in Somalia and the threat of incursions in Kenya is eliminated. that's the truth.

As for migingo, hiyo uliza kibaki na museveni.
but the answer is very obvious....

In Turkana and other border regions deadly clashes is as a result of competition for scarce resources and its financed by business people and politicians.

For Example in Mandera if the Garre want to retaliate against the Merrule they will seek help from across the border from Garre's in somalia or Ethiopia to assist them in eliminating their rivals claim so as to avoid the government's reprisals.







jokes
#75 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 5:31:07 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 323
Remember just before the creation of new South Sudan, a consignment of military arms left the port of Mombasa for South Sudan?
First the government lied that the consignment belonged to Kenya army. Next thing we saw was Kenyan government escorting the same to South Sudan. Why were they arming South Sudan? Who had the interest? Kenya? Thank God those people agreed on the boundary and split!


Apha this is how you make friends,
we help south sudan they help us with their oil.
It was busniness
and unless i am mistaken the interim agreements allowed south Sudan to have a military.
we assited


T-Bag
#76 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 5:38:02 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/25/2008
Posts: 510
"@Somali woman thrown out of 105 matatu was ready to prove innoncence, but citizens would not listen"
I AM trust in GOD, I AM belief in THYSELF
AlphDoti
#77 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 5:45:11 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
jokes wrote:
Remember just before the creation of new South Sudan, a consignment of military arms left the port of Mombasa for South Sudan?
First the government lied that the consignment belonged to Kenya army. Next thing we saw was Kenyan government escorting the same to South Sudan. Why were they arming South Sudan? Who had the interest? Kenya? Thank God those people agreed on the boundary and split!


Apha this is how you make friends,
we help south sudan they help us with their oil.
It was busniness
and unless i am mistaken the interim agreements allowed south Sudan to have a military.
we assited

@jokes you're such a joker. You mean allowed the "rebels" have arms in readiness for civil war, fight the govt, exactly what they are doing now. So we are country that supports rebels when it suits us (read benefit = oil).
NB: just in case you miss the joke, note that there was no "South Sudan"
AlphDoti
#78 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 5:48:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
T-Bag wrote:
"@Somali woman thrown out of 105 matatu was ready to prove innoncence, but citizens would not listen"

This is not good!!!!!! Shame on you Pray
Swenani
#79 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 5:48:42 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
T-Bag wrote:
"@Somali woman thrown out of 105 matatu was ready to prove innoncence, but citizens would not listen"

What? WHY?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
poundfoolish
#80 Posted : Monday, May 05, 2014 5:50:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Ha Ha!
Ati boots out of Somalia! So that what?
So that AlQaeda can find a base there? so that they could have a nation to spread radical religion to the entire East Africa? Demand North Eastern from Kenya?

Let them continue throwing their fire crackers. We shall learn to survive.
There is nothing like let Somalia be. the truth is there are idiots amongst us who feel a caliphate needs to be established and every Kuffar should die.
That the plight of Palestinians in the ME is every Moslems fight wherever which is nothing but a whole bunch of bullcrap in the fight for what all wars in the world have been about. RESOURCES!!!
be it oil, water, land, women, etc etc..

What are 'Bongo haram' murdering, kidnapping and raping 15 year olds for? The Israels to leave Palestine? Americans to live Afghanistan? Russians to live Chechnya?

Nobody is leaving Somalia any soon!
Even if it means all those radicalised youths in majengo, Manhattan, Norway etc leave their current respective countries. I am sure those countries are glad to have those dimwits leave to go die in those Jihad warzones.
Untill all of them leave and die for the virgins, living the rest of us in a free world. We will not negotiate with terrorists.
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