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The KenolKobil 2015 pendulum
VituVingiSana
#1541 Posted : Monday, December 04, 2017 10:19:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,101
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
Rising crude oil prices does not work to the favour of KK

No, it does not. $45 oil is far more profitable for KK than $65 oil.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mlennyma
#1542 Posted : Tuesday, December 05, 2017 11:10:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Rising crude oil prices does not work to the favour of KK

No, it does not. $45 oil is far more profitable for KK than $65 oil.

But total share is doing well
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
watesh
#1543 Posted : Tuesday, December 05, 2017 12:34:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/10/2014
Posts: 969
Location: Kenya
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Rising crude oil prices does not work to the favour of KK

No, it does not. $45 oil is far more profitable for KK than $65 oil.

For sure since their margins are fixed and they have already cut costs everywhere else, high volume is the only way profit grows for this company in the Kenyan market. $45 oil sells more volume than $65 oil.
mamilli
#1544 Posted : Tuesday, December 05, 2017 1:36:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/6/2015
Posts: 249
Location: Nairobi
watesh wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Rising crude oil prices does not work to the favour of KK

No, it does not. $45 oil is far more profitable for KK than $65 oil.

For sure since their margins are fixed and they have already cut costs everywhere else, high volume is the only way profit grows for this company in the Kenyan market. $45 oil sells more volume than $65 oil.


With reference to "fixed margins" juzi tu these very characters(KK et al)opposed the proposed scrapping of fuel price control...hii watu pana eleweka.
Never lose your position in a bull market,BTFD.
VituVingiSana
#1545 Posted : Tuesday, December 05, 2017 9:51:57 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,101
Location: Nairobi
mamilli wrote:
watesh wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Rising crude oil prices does not work to the favour of KK

No, it does not. $45 oil is far more profitable for KK than $65 oil.

For sure since their margins are fixed and they have already cut costs everywhere else, high volume is the only way profit grows for this company in the Kenyan market. $45 oil sells more volume than $65 oil.

With reference to "fixed margins" juzi tu these very characters(KK et al)opposed the proposed scrapping of fuel price control...hii watu pana eleweka.

Ohana of KK is very smart. He knows oil prices were rising and if price controls were lifted the price to consumers would increase even if the OMC margins did not. The gullible public would blame “greedy” OMCs but not GoK (high taxes) or higher oil prices. By sticking with the price controls, the OMCs (like KK) don’t have to be the alleged bad guys. Let ERC try to explain why fuel prices are rising!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Spikes
#1546 Posted : Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:37:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
HNW bugger has exited by huge volume.
Any news in this counter.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
VituVingiSana
#1547 Posted : Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:34:33 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,101
Location: Nairobi
Spikes wrote:
HNW bugger has exited by huge volume.
Any news in this counter.

No surprise there. Chap's gone to see Lucifer. His heirs are cashing in. I hope a serious fund or strategic investor buys out the stake.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mlennyma
#1548 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 9:48:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,183
Location: nairobi
The pendulum has stalled,no demand
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
littledove
#1549 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 10:17:11 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/1/2014
Posts: 903
Location: sky
mlennyma wrote:
The pendulum has stalled,no demand

kenol kobil has a tendency of performing poorly during bull period, as the bull is organizing itself to charge kk is preparing itself to return to its comfort zone. For me its better having Arm which is on turnaround mission and buyout rumour just like kk was 2 years ago. it was a good ride from 8 bob
There are only two emotions in the stock market, fear and hope. The problem is, you hope when you should fear and fear when you should hope
VituVingiSana
#1550 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 10:28:37 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,101
Location: Nairobi
littledove wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
The pendulum has stalled,no demand

kenol kobil has a tendency of performing poorly during bull period, as the bull is organizing itself to charge kk is preparing itself to return to its comfort zone. For me its better having Arm which is on turnaround mission and buyout rumour just like kk was 2 years ago. it was a good ride from 8 bob

Hmmm, a view that's 180 degrees from Warren Buffett's take. I do not know your history of investment performance [not saying you aren't right] BUT I think I'll stick with WB's philosophy for now of buying/holding quality firms at fair prices.

FY 2017 will be a record breaking year for KK.
FY 2018 will be tougher but if Ohana sticks to his non-gambling [no naked forex or fuel hedges] ways, KK should do fine.
I wonder if KK can gain market share from independents as fuel prices rise?
Do the good guys in GoK/ERC/MoE have the balls and power to significantly reduce smuggling, tax evasion, fuel adulteration and mismanagement of ullage?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sparkly
#1551 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 10:29:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Spikes wrote:
HNW bugger has exited by huge volume.
Any news in this counter.


Who is HNW?
Life is short. Live passionately.
kawi254
#1552 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 10:38:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2015
Posts: 467
Location: Nairobi
Next market share report for OMCs should be interesting.

On all major Highways i have noticed a lot of Shell & Total petrol stations owned by our Somali brothers opening up - leveraging on the big brands as opposed to opening Petrol Stations with unknown names.

Maybe KenolKobil need also to partner up with our Somali brothers to increase their petrol stations numbers.
Angelica _ann
#1553 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 10:38:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
sparkly wrote:
Spikes wrote:
HNW bugger has exited by huge volume.
Any news in this counter.


Who is HNW?


Biwott family holding!!!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
VituVingiSana
#1554 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 11:07:33 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,101
Location: Nairobi
kawi254 wrote:
Next market share report for OMCs should be interesting.

On all major Highways i have noticed a lot of Shell & Total petrol stations owned by our Somali brothers opening up - leveraging on the big brands as opposed to opening Petrol Stations with unknown names.

Maybe KenolKobil need also to partner up with our Somali brothers to increase their petrol stations numbers.

KK runs a "franchise model" and anyone can partner and become a franchisee.
Many stations aren't run by "individuals" but by groups who put in systems. With the increasing use of the K-Card, credit/debit cards and Mobile Money, the need to monitor cash receipts will reduce but not eliminated.
Tech should help reduce fraud i.e. automatic sensors for fuel delivery, etc. That said one does need GOOD and HONEST employees just as they are required in any business.

I expect sales (volumes) will pick up in 2018 as we leave the election season behind. The same share of a bigger pie will help KK though the increased cost of financing pricier cargoes will hurt profits for all OMCs.

KK has the ability to finance OTS cargoes thanks to its improved relationship with banks esp the Dutch banks [Ohana mentioned Dutch banks are cheaper/better than French banks]

The big "unknown" is how far low will HNW's estate go to cash out. Could it be a buying opportunity? Will they sell in (smaller) blocks OR find a strategic investor to take them out?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mamilli
#1555 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 12:08:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/6/2015
Posts: 249
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
littledove wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
The pendulum has stalled,no demand

kenol kobil has a tendency of performing poorly during bull period, as the bull is organizing itself to charge kk is preparing itself to return to its comfort zone. For me its better having Arm which is on turnaround mission and buyout rumour just like kk was 2 years ago. it was a good ride from 8 bob

Hmmm, a view that's 180 degrees from Warren Buffett's take. I do not know your history of investment performance [not saying you aren't right] BUT I think I'll stick with WB's philosophy for now of buying/holding quality firms at fair prices.

FY 2017 will be a record breaking year for KK.
FY 2018 will be tougher but if Ohana sticks to his non-gambling [no naked forex or fuel hedges] ways, KK should do fine.
I wonder if KK can gain market share from independents as fuel prices rise?
Do the good guys in GoK/ERC/MoE have the balls and power to significantly reduce smuggling, tax evasion, fuel adulteration and mismanagement of ullage?


Same WB said "cash combined with courage in a time of crisis is priceless" @littledove am with you on turnaround firms.
Never lose your position in a bull market,BTFD.
sparkly
#1556 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 2:54:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Angelica _ann wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Spikes wrote:
HNW bugger has exited by huge volume.
Any news in this counter.


Who is HNW?


Biwott family holding!!!


Thanks, now I know.
Life is short. Live passionately.
VituVingiSana
#1557 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 7:45:14 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,101
Location: Nairobi
mamilli wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
littledove wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
The pendulum has stalled,no demand

kenol kobil has a tendency of performing poorly during bull period, as the bull is organizing itself to charge kk is preparing itself to return to its comfort zone. For me its better having Arm which is on turnaround mission and buyout rumour just like kk was 2 years ago. it was a good ride from 8 bob

Hmmm, a view that's 180 degrees from Warren Buffett's take. I do not know your history of investment performance [not saying you aren't right] BUT I think I'll stick with WB's philosophy for now of buying/holding quality firms at fair prices.

FY 2017 will be a record breaking year for KK.
FY 2018 will be tougher but if Ohana sticks to his non-gambling [no naked forex or fuel hedges] ways, KK should do fine.
I wonder if KK can gain market share from independents as fuel prices rise?
Do the good guys in GoK/ERC/MoE have the balls and power to significantly reduce smuggling, tax evasion, fuel adulteration and mismanagement of ullage?


Same WB said "cash combined with courage in a time of crisis is priceless" @littledove am with you on turnaround firms.

Within context... Yes, to buy QUALITY firms.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
obiero
#1558 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 7:47:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,507
Location: nairobi
mamilli wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
littledove wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
The pendulum has stalled,no demand

kenol kobil has a tendency of performing poorly during bull period, as the bull is organizing itself to charge kk is preparing itself to return to its comfort zone. For me its better having Arm which is on turnaround mission and buyout rumour just like kk was 2 years ago. it was a good ride from 8 bob

Hmmm, a view that's 180 degrees from Warren Buffett's take. I do not know your history of investment performance [not saying you aren't right] BUT I think I'll stick with WB's philosophy for now of buying/holding quality firms at fair prices.

FY 2017 will be a record breaking year for KK.
FY 2018 will be tougher but if Ohana sticks to his non-gambling [no naked forex or fuel hedges] ways, KK should do fine.
I wonder if KK can gain market share from independents as fuel prices rise?
Do the good guys in GoK/ERC/MoE have the balls and power to significantly reduce smuggling, tax evasion, fuel adulteration and mismanagement of ullage?


Same WB said "cash combined with courage in a time of crisis is priceless" @littledove am with you on turnaround firms.

That's how Shah made his fortune via KCB

HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
VituVingiSana
#1559 Posted : Monday, December 18, 2017 10:05:08 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,101
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
mamilli wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
littledove wrote:
mlennyma wrote:
The pendulum has stalled,no demand

kenol kobil has a tendency of performing poorly during bull period, as the bull is organizing itself to charge kk is preparing itself to return to its comfort zone. For me its better having Arm which is on turnaround mission and buyout rumour just like kk was 2 years ago. it was a good ride from 8 bob

Hmmm, a view that's 180 degrees from Warren Buffett's take. I do not know your history of investment performance [not saying you aren't right] BUT I think I'll stick with WB's philosophy for now of buying/holding quality firms at fair prices.

FY 2017 will be a record breaking year for KK.
FY 2018 will be tougher but if Ohana sticks to his non-gambling [no naked forex or fuel hedges] ways, KK should do fine.
I wonder if KK can gain market share from independents as fuel prices rise?
Do the good guys in GoK/ERC/MoE have the balls and power to significantly reduce smuggling, tax evasion, fuel adulteration and mismanagement of ullage?


Same WB said "cash combined with courage in a time of crisis is priceless" @littledove am with you on turnaround firms.

That's how Shah made his fortune via KCB

SS was a director with 10% [or so] and was instrumental in recruiting MOO among others. In other words, he was in the driver's seat NOT waiting for a turnaround by spearheaded by others. WB likes control or influence in how a business is run i.e. he doesn't run the business BUT he wants his voice heard. When WB voices his disapproval [even if he doesn't have a majority stake] you know things are going to change.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Aguytrying
#1560 Posted : Tuesday, December 19, 2017 9:22:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
kawi254 wrote:
Next market share report for OMCs should be interesting.

On all major Highways i have noticed a lot of Shell & Total petrol stations owned by our Somali brothers opening up - leveraging on the big brands as opposed to opening Petrol Stations with unknown names.

Maybe KenolKobil need also to partner up with our Somali brothers to increase their petrol stations numbers.


I've noted too. Between Nairobi and machakos junction, so many big big stations. KK should get one or 2 there. There are so many trucks + jam on the route which could translate to more sales
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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