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Cytonn Investments
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,058 Location: Gwitu
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Much as I am not in a position to vouch for Cytonn,I find PaulKimani's infatuation with Cytonn matters a tad perplexing. Does the guy ever post on any other topic? Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/6/2018 Posts: 175 Location: Kinshasa
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kaka2za wrote:Much as I am not in a position to vouch for Cytonn,I find PaulKimani's infatuation with Cytonn matters a tad perplexing.
Does the guy ever post on any other topic? Yeah, from an objective standpoint, whether the posts have a basis or not, it makes one wonder whether this is not a personal vendetta? If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/19/2016 Posts: 204
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To all of you, noted.
The reason I created a new account was I got messages which were more than subtle threats when I viewed my thoughts on my normal account. Cytonn are thieves who stop at nothing and I wasn’t willing to risk my safety.
But, good luck to you all following Horton. For those investors who have messaged me privately, continue to do so. I’m out of this thread. Stay safe all.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Balaa wrote:kaka2za wrote:Much as I am not in a position to vouch for Cytonn,I find PaulKimani's infatuation with Cytonn matters a tad perplexing.
Does the guy ever post on any other topic? Yeah, from an objective standpoint, whether the posts have a basis or not, it makes one wonder whether this is not a personal vendetta? Let Kimani tell his story. As long as there is no abuse, personal attacks or unacceptable behaviour I don't see the problem. Any entity that is above board should expect intense scrutiny and criticism and be able to come out the other side unscathed, eventually. A man named Harry Markopolos warned everybody, the SEC included, for years, no one listened. Everyone made these uncomfortable noises and trotted out "business theories" explaining the unexplainable until Bernie Madoff's thing crashed. If you have unshakeable convictions about Cytonn, then chill, ignore the guy. Sleep easy and buy us a beer at the pub from your profits. For the paranoid like me, I say let the man keep poking. Peace. Stay safe
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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I am for freedom of expression.... If you grew up under Kenyatta and Moi you will appreciate that. Let everybody speak their mind and ooze wisdom or ignorance or stupidity in equal measure.... Kwani Wazua ni ya kazi gani? Having said any financial institution has to be wary of sentiments that might create a run on it. Sentiments of Paul Kimani when broadcasted by influential personalities can create a run. In such times, it is prudent of Cytonn to maintain stability in the short term. A bank run (also known as a run on the bank) occurs when many clients withdraw their money from a bank, because they believe the bank may cease to function in the near future. In other words, it is when, in a fractional-reserve banking system (where banks normally only keep a small proportion of their assets as cash), numerous customers withdraw cash from deposit accounts with a financial institution at the same time because they believe that the financial institution is, or might become, insolvent; they keep the cash or transfer it into other assets, such as government bonds, precious metals or gemstones. When they transfer funds to another institution, it may be characterized as a capital flight. As a bank run progresses, it generates its own momentum: as more people withdraw cash, the likelihood of default increases, triggering further withdrawals. This can destabilize the bank to the point where it runs out of cash and thus faces sudden bankruptcy.[1] To combat a bank run, a bank may limit how much cash each customer may withdraw, suspend withdrawals altogether, or promptly acquire more cash from other banks or from the central bank, besides other measures. History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/21/2018 Posts: 564 Location: Britain
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quicksand wrote:Balaa wrote:kaka2za wrote:Much as I am not in a position to vouch for Cytonn,I find PaulKimani's infatuation with Cytonn matters a tad perplexing.
Does the guy ever post on any other topic? Yeah, from an objective standpoint, whether the posts have a basis or not, it makes one wonder whether this is not a personal vendetta? Let Kimani tell his story. As long as there is no abuse, personal attacks or unacceptable behaviour I don't see the problem. Any entity that is above board should expect intense scrutiny and criticism and be able to come out the other side unscathed, eventually. A man named Harry Markopolos warned everybody, the SEC included, for years, no one listened. Everyone made these uncomfortable noises and trotted out "business theories" explaining the unexplainable until Bernie Madoff's thing crashed. If you have unshakeable convictions about Cytonn, then chill, ignore the guy. Sleep easy and buy us a beer at the pub from your profits. For the paranoid like me, I say let the man keep poking. Peace. Stay safe I concur with your post. Nobody should run paulkimani out of town on the basis that he only comments on this particular thread. It's very easy to argue that he has a beef against Cytonn and he is now out to tarnish their otherwise good image. The only problem is that he appears to back most of his arguments with facts. He may indeed be having a bone or two to pick with Cytonn but his arguments are quite compelling. The tweets he shared the other day are quite easily an obvious give away for any prospective investor with Cytonn. For me those tweets are quite unsettling for any serious investor. It's very easy to wish to gag PK so that gullible investors can continue putting their money in Cytonn. After all misery loves company and there is "comfort" in numbers. IMO, PK should be allowed to give his side of the story and serve as a warning to investors since Wazua is about informing and educating others. Most landlords would tell you that guys who have previously been struggling to pay rent now have a perfect excuse not to pay. Hii Corona imekuja wakati mzuri. Everybody loves money but that promised 18% return, I dare say, does/did not appear sustainable in the long run, Corona or no Corona..
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/1/2017 Posts: 288
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quicksand wrote:Balaa wrote:kaka2za wrote:Much as I am not in a position to vouch for Cytonn,I find PaulKimani's infatuation with Cytonn matters a tad perplexing.
Does the guy ever post on any other topic? Yeah, from an objective standpoint, whether the posts have a basis or not, it makes one wonder whether this is not a personal vendetta? Let Kimani tell his story. As long as there is no abuse, personal attacks or unacceptable behaviour I don't see the problem. Any entity that is above board should expect intense scrutiny and criticism and be able to come out the other side unscathed, eventually. A man named Harry Markopolos warned everybody, the SEC included, for years, no one listened. Everyone made these uncomfortable noises and trotted out "business theories" explaining the unexplainable until Bernie Madoff's thing crashed. If you have unshakeable convictions about Cytonn, then chill, ignore the guy. Sleep easy and buy us a beer at the pub from your profits. For the paranoid like me, I say let the man keep poking. Peace. Stay safe By the way Harry Markopolos blew the whistle yet again concerning fraud on the once US icon General Electric (GE) last year and stock sold off abit but crooked Wall Street titans came to the defense of GE and the stock rallied.GE is a ponzi scheme but naive investors still buying the stock Contrarian Investor and Trader.Advocate of free markets,limited government interference in the economy and sound money
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/1/2017 Posts: 288
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BGL wrote:I am for freedom of expression.... If you grew up under Kenyatta and Moi you will appreciate that. Let everybody speak their mind and ooze wisdom or ignorance or stupidity in equal measure.... Kwani Wazua ni ya kazi gani?
Having said any financial institution has to be wary of sentiments that might create a run on it. Sentiments of Paul Kimani when broadcasted by influential personalities can create a run. In such times, it is prudent of Cytonn to maintain stability in the short term.
A bank run (also known as a run on the bank) occurs when many clients withdraw their money from a bank, because they believe the bank may cease to function in the near future. In other words, it is when, in a fractional-reserve banking system (where banks normally only keep a small proportion of their assets as cash), numerous customers withdraw cash from deposit accounts with a financial institution at the same time because they believe that the financial institution is, or might become, insolvent; they keep the cash or transfer it into other assets, such as government bonds, precious metals or gemstones. When they transfer funds to another institution, it may be characterized as a capital flight. As a bank run progresses, it generates its own momentum: as more people withdraw cash, the likelihood of default increases, triggering further withdrawals. This can destabilize the bank to the point where it runs out of cash and thus faces sudden bankruptcy.[1] To combat a bank run, a bank may limit how much cash each customer may withdraw, suspend withdrawals altogether, or promptly acquire more cash from other banks or from the central bank, besides other measures. Thats why fractional-reserve banking system is a fraud and should be abolished.Banks should either be deposit taking or loan disbursers and not both but banks making too much money on this scheme until when many clients come demanding their money back then the ponzi is exposed and the bank collapses Contrarian Investor and Trader.Advocate of free markets,limited government interference in the economy and sound money
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/1/2017 Posts: 288
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Queen wrote:quicksand wrote:Balaa wrote:kaka2za wrote:Much as I am not in a position to vouch for Cytonn,I find PaulKimani's infatuation with Cytonn matters a tad perplexing.
Does the guy ever post on any other topic? Yeah, from an objective standpoint, whether the posts have a basis or not, it makes one wonder whether this is not a personal vendetta? Let Kimani tell his story. As long as there is no abuse, personal attacks or unacceptable behaviour I don't see the problem. Any entity that is above board should expect intense scrutiny and criticism and be able to come out the other side unscathed, eventually. A man named Harry Markopolos warned everybody, the SEC included, for years, no one listened. Everyone made these uncomfortable noises and trotted out "business theories" explaining the unexplainable until Bernie Madoff's thing crashed. If you have unshakeable convictions about Cytonn, then chill, ignore the guy. Sleep easy and buy us a beer at the pub from your profits. For the paranoid like me, I say let the man keep poking. Peace. Stay safe I concur with your post. Nobody should run paulkimani out of town on the basis that he only comments on this particular thread. It's very easy to argue that he has a beef against Cytonn and he is now out to tarnish their otherwise good image. The only problem is that he appears to back most of his arguments with facts. He may indeed be having a bone or two to pick with Cytonn but his arguments are quite compelling. The tweets he shared the other day are quite easily an obvious give away for any prospective investor with Cytonn. For me those tweets are quite unsettling for any serious investor. It's very easy to wish to gag PK so that gullible investors can continue putting their money in Cytonn. After all misery loves company and there is "comfort" in numbers. IMO, PK should be allowed to give his side of the story and serve as a warning to investors since Wazua is about informing and educating others. Most landlords would tell you that guys who have previously been struggling to pay rent now have a perfect excuse not to pay. Hii Corona imekuja wakati mzuri. Everybody loves money but that promised 18% return, I dare say, does/did not appear sustainable in the long run, Corona or no Corona.. I have always been suspicious of Cytonn's high returns above competitors and when the deal looks too good to be true think twice Contrarian Investor and Trader.Advocate of free markets,limited government interference in the economy and sound money
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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My biggest concern about Cytonn come from my experience in private equity and venture capital investing.
1. Fundraising: Typically, funds do not raise money from working class investors because it is easier to get money from institutions, and high networth clients. Given Cytonn performance for the last couple of year, I don't understand why they need money from regular people.
2. Cash payment to investors: Typically funds targets 6-10 years to return cash in lamp sum, this is the timeline for a liquidity event to occur. Without liquidity event, fund don't really have money to payback. Cytonn is very different because somehow it is able to pay investor back continuously.
3. Behaviour of Cytonn payments: Because Cytonn payments behave like derivative securities, the underlying assets must be generating reliable cash to service payments to investors. In order to do that, Cytonn must either have invested in AAA coupon paying securities or their real estate investment is generating sufficient rent income to cover the notes. If that's not the case, I would be worried.
4. Marketing: Funds do not do the kind of marketing you see at Cytonn because they don't have to.
5. Returns: Those returns are high/ very high!!!!
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