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Which way 2017?
Rank: Elder Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 2,849 Location: Rupi
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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@ euge so Njirani is summoned to explain why they are not collecting enough for wasteful spending / thieves but wajuu is not summoned to explain how 0. 8b from our tax money was stolen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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PeterReborn wrote:nakujua wrote:for the sake of sisi, who don't understand much of the gdp stuff.
If borrowing to pay recurrent expenditure is not healthy for the economy, would not borrowing be of any help.
It will mean you lay off workers, close down some institutions to save on say power bills, newspaper bills, tea and mandazi bills - but does'nt that also affect the economy in a negative way, since the milk farmer is not paid, the mandazi lady is not paid, kenya power scales back, those civil servants and their families do not get cash...
I mean what is good at the end of the day, I for sure would rather have a debt and ensure a decent life for my family than live a miserable life without debts. Let me break this down to you.The government have employed drivers some of whom have no vehicles to drive.These drivers just sit around the office as they have nothing to do.These drivers are being paid a salary and they are not contributing to the productivity of the organization.The government needs to do away with these drivers and ensure all the civil servants know how to drive their vehicles.This means we don't have to borrow money to pay this driver who is doing nothing.The money can then be used for development and infrastructural project.There will therefore be an enabling environment for this driver to create a business and be an employer and hence contributing to the economy. please I beg of you to bear with my ignorance on the same, you say borrowing should be put to development and infrastructure projects, but lets say in our case the money goes into putting up say the thika super highway. just from a point of ignorance, economically, would it be better to reduce on development and pay more people a salary than to say put up a supper highway - I mean are our infrastructure developments meant to spur economic growth and how is the same measured.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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limanika wrote:@ nakujua debt is like fire. Good servant but bad master. You don't borrow to go for expensive holiday trip, rather you can borrow to buy a dairy cow to generate income. Jubilee need to hire someone from outside the box to audit and correct this mess otherwise we'll kick them out of state house before 2017 Indulge my ignorance, but the holiday trip exposes your kids to life outside the farm, knowing only one way of life can be detrimental. I am assuming by the time the lender offers you the money to borrow they already know you can pay. So if you can pay the debt why not enjoy the holiday.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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nakujua wrote:PeterReborn wrote:nakujua wrote:for the sake of sisi, who don't understand much of the gdp stuff.
If borrowing to pay recurrent expenditure is not healthy for the economy, would not borrowing be of any help.
It will mean you lay off workers, close down some institutions to save on say power bills, newspaper bills, tea and mandazi bills - but does'nt that also affect the economy in a negative way, since the milk farmer is not paid, the mandazi lady is not paid, kenya power scales back, those civil servants and their families do not get cash...
I mean what is good at the end of the day, I for sure would rather have a debt and ensure a decent life for my family than live a miserable life without debts. Let me break this down to you.The government have employed drivers some of whom have no vehicles to drive.These drivers just sit around the office as they have nothing to do.These drivers are being paid a salary and they are not contributing to the productivity of the organization.The government needs to do away with these drivers and ensure all the civil servants know how to drive their vehicles.This means we don't have to borrow money to pay this driver who is doing nothing.The money can then be used for development and infrastructural project.There will therefore be an enabling environment for this driver to create a business and be an employer and hence contributing to the economy. please I beg of you to bear with my ignorance on the same, you say borrowing should be put to development and infrastructure projects, but lets say in our case the money goes into putting up say the thika super highway. just from a point of ignorance, economically, would it be better to reduce on development and pay more people a salary than to say put up a supper highway - I mean are our infrastructure developments meant to spur economic growth and how is the same measured. When you pay someone a salary,what do they do with the money? What you need to consider is something called output and productivity.You need to have more output than the inputs so that you can justify the little resources you are putting into outputs. When you put up roads to where there are no road what does that do to the economy?The farmer is able to access the market for his farm produce.The cost of transportation comes down and therefore the consumers get cheaper products.This reduces inflation. When you put up electricity where is no electricity,businesses will be set up in the rural areas and communities will have a better life. The infrastructural projects will also employ more people to work on these projects.For instance SGR is estimated to employ 30000 locals Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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nakujua wrote:limanika wrote:@ nakujua debt is like fire. Good servant but bad master. You don't borrow to go for expensive holiday trip, rather you can borrow to buy a dairy cow to generate income. Jubilee need to hire someone from outside the box to audit and correct this mess otherwise we'll kick them out of state house before 2017 Indulge my ignorance, but the holiday trip exposes your kids to life outside the farm, knowing only one way of life can be detrimental. I am assuming by the time the lender offers you the money to borrow they already know you can pay. So if you can pay the debt why not enjoy the holiday. Maybe you need to attend a basic economic class but it is economical suicide to borrow to go on expensive holiday,or borrow to do an expensive wedding or even borrow money to consume.The expected return on borrowing should be higher than the interest payments on those loans. Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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PeterReborn wrote:nakujua wrote:limanika wrote:@ nakujua debt is like fire. Good servant but bad master. You don't borrow to go for expensive holiday trip, rather you can borrow to buy a dairy cow to generate income. Jubilee need to hire someone from outside the box to audit and correct this mess otherwise we'll kick them out of state house before 2017 Indulge my ignorance, but the holiday trip exposes your kids to life outside the farm, knowing only one way of life can be detrimental. I am assuming by the time the lender offers you the money to borrow they already know you can pay. So if you can pay the debt why not enjoy the holiday. Maybe you need to attend a basic economic class but it is economical suicide to borrow to go on expensive holiday,or borrow to do an expensive wedding or even borrow money to consume.The expected return on borrowing should be higher than the interest payments on those loans. I am just trying to discover more about the whole economic tools, it doesn't hurt to seek information, and it also does not hurt to give that information if one happens to be in the know  But isn't there a measure of satisfaction in economics, like if I borrow to go on holiday and I end up happier and more fulfilled than I was before, or the family is soo happy that if they had not gone they would be mostly sulky - does that not count as a form of return in economics, ama returns have to be tangible. I understand it is foolish to borrow if the cash end up being stollen, but if its going to some use should there be a way of measuring that benefit
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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@ nakujua what govt is doing is like approach 10 financiers same time but independently, using 2014 data, ask them to give you loan to buy daily cow, they all give loan but you end up going for holiday instead. How are you going to buy the cow. And how will you repay the loan. @Peter true about infrastructure projects but no point putting tarmac for cattle tracks. Just make the road all weather
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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nakujua wrote:PeterReborn wrote:nakujua wrote:limanika wrote:@ nakujua debt is like fire. Good servant but bad master. You don't borrow to go for expensive holiday trip, rather you can borrow to buy a dairy cow to generate income. Jubilee need to hire someone from outside the box to audit and correct this mess otherwise we'll kick them out of state house before 2017 Indulge my ignorance, but the holiday trip exposes your kids to life outside the farm, knowing only one way of life can be detrimental. I am assuming by the time the lender offers you the money to borrow they already know you can pay. So if you can pay the debt why not enjoy the holiday. Maybe you need to attend a basic economic class but it is economical suicide to borrow to go on expensive holiday,or borrow to do an expensive wedding or even borrow money to consume.The expected return on borrowing should be higher than the interest payments on those loans. I am just trying to discover more about the whole economic tools, it doesn't hurt to seek information, and it also does not hurt to give that information if one happens to be in the know But isn't there a measure of satisfaction in economics, like if I borrow to go on holiday and I end up happier and more fulfilled than I was before, or the family is soo happy that if they had not gone they would be mostly sulky - does that not count as a form of return in economics, ama returns have to be tangible. I understand it is foolish to borrow if the cash end up being stollen, but if its going to some use should there be a way of measuring that benefit  So how do you measure happiness? Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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PeterReborn wrote:nakujua wrote:PeterReborn wrote:nakujua wrote:limanika wrote:@ nakujua debt is like fire. Good servant but bad master. You don't borrow to go for expensive holiday trip, rather you can borrow to buy a dairy cow to generate income. Jubilee need to hire someone from outside the box to audit and correct this mess otherwise we'll kick them out of state house before 2017 Indulge my ignorance, but the holiday trip exposes your kids to life outside the farm, knowing only one way of life can be detrimental. I am assuming by the time the lender offers you the money to borrow they already know you can pay. So if you can pay the debt why not enjoy the holiday. Maybe you need to attend a basic economic class but it is economical suicide to borrow to go on expensive holiday,or borrow to do an expensive wedding or even borrow money to consume.The expected return on borrowing should be higher than the interest payments on those loans. I am just trying to discover more about the whole economic tools, it doesn't hurt to seek information, and it also does not hurt to give that information if one happens to be in the know But isn't there a measure of satisfaction in economics, like if I borrow to go on holiday and I end up happier and more fulfilled than I was before, or the family is soo happy that if they had not gone they would be mostly sulky - does that not count as a form of return in economics, ama returns have to be tangible. I understand it is foolish to borrow if the cash end up being stollen, but if its going to some use should there be a way of measuring that benefit So how do you measure happiness? that was my query, if economics has a way of measuring that, maybe a satifaction index - where if like in a family you have 1 argument per day with your spouse it is given a score, if they are angry then burn your car it is given a lower satisfaction score - then if you take them to an exotic holiday the satisfaction score goes up again... so using borrowed money to raise that satisfaction score counts as maendeleo. ama economic theory wise I am talking gibberish
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