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The Acorn Saga - Britam vs Cytonn
muganda
#121 Posted : Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:59:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
Investreal wrote:
obviously reading the young man's replying affidavit, it was obvious that him and the wazees were reading from different pages. looks like ed and team were concerned about baam investors and the wazees were only concerned about their pockets. their job was to make money for investors and charge a fee, but looks like wazee wanted them to make money for them only, and at no fee.and by the way, who is wairegi to stop payment? ...he is not the fund manager. so we are getting closer to the story: britam says it was defrauded, acorn says it is being forcefully acquired, and cytonn says they did not want to be used to screw investors. so who is right? as for wairegi, he looks very clueless sana, how do you say you were defrauded of 4 billion invested over a 4 month period? he def did not understand what was going on in baam at all, i think dande played him like a guitar. that mzee needs to go home. hope he has a clue what is going on in insurance and sales, maybe he is losing billions there too?


@investinreal I respectfully disagree. Pensioners/funds/shareholders/life-insureds give BRITAM - the institution - and by extension BAAM money.

Young men will always have bright ideas, but it is the names of the confused Wazees that carry weight in business. The tangible assets here are land and cash which Britam has, not ideas.

If the spirit of the deal is negated, Dande should have left quietly (and leave BAAM/Britam to their fate). But 'out of nobleness' he wires the assets to SPVs - please! Let them return the assets and continue with their illustrious careers.


mv_ufanisi
#122 Posted : Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:39:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
Investreal wrote:
obviously reading the young man's replying affidavit, it was obvious that him and the wazees were reading from different pages. looks like ed and team were concerned about baam investors and the wazees were only concerned about their pockets. their job was to make money for investors and charge a fee, but looks like wazee wanted them to make money for them only, and at no fee.and by the way, who is wairegi to stop payment? ...he is not the fund manager. so we are getting closer to the story: britam says it was defrauded, acorn says it is being forcefully acquired, and cytonn says they did not want to be used to screw investors. so who is right? as for wairegi, he looks very clueless sana, how do you say you were defrauded of 4 billion invested over a 4 month period? he def did not understand what was going on in baam at all, i think dande played him like a guitar. that mzee needs to go home. hope he has a clue what is going on in insurance and sales, maybe he is losing billions there too?


This mzee you're dismissing is an old hand. He knows the business and that's how he's made his money over the last few decades. The young guys seemed to have got greedy and threw ethics out of the door with the knowledge that Cytonn would do business with them. David Owino of Centum showed the right way to do this.
Chedaqueen
#123 Posted : Thursday, November 13, 2014 4:39:43 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 11/4/2014
Posts: 2
Location: Nairobi
Interesting discussions here. From the affidavit, was this Dande dude working for Britam or Acorn? Looks like an intention to benefit from public sympathy which clearly isnt working. Keep them coming.
mawinder
#124 Posted : Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:28:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
https://cytonn.com/downl...mation%20Memorandum.pdf
I want to invest in the above.Any comments??????
Obi 1 Kanobi
#125 Posted : Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:59:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Investreal wrote:
obviously reading the young man's replying affidavit, it was obvious that him and the wazees were reading from different pages. looks like ed and team were concerned about baam investors and the wazees were only concerned about their pockets. their job was to make money for investors and charge a fee, but looks like wazee wanted them to make money for them only, and at no fee.and by the way, who is wairegi to stop payment? ...he is not the fund manager. so we are getting closer to the story: britam says it was defrauded, acorn says it is being forcefully acquired, and cytonn says they did not want to be used to screw investors. so who is right? as for wairegi, he looks very clueless sana, how do you say you were defrauded of 4 billion invested over a 4 month period? he def did not understand what was going on in baam at all, i think dande played him like a guitar. that mzee needs to go home. hope he has a clue what is going on in insurance and sales, maybe he is losing billions there too?


Finally someone who gets what the real problem is all about.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Obi 1 Kanobi
#126 Posted : Thursday, November 13, 2014 6:01:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Chedaqueen wrote:
Interesting discussions here. From the affidavit, was this Dande dude working for Britam or Acorn? Looks like an intention to benefit from public sympathy which clearly isnt working. Keep them coming.


BAAM is a licenced fund manager that is supposed to work for the benefit of investors, if Britam (the group) wants a piece of the pie, they should get it as part of the investors and not by squeezing BAAM management to screw other investors for their benefit.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Chedaqueen
#127 Posted : Thursday, November 13, 2014 6:06:54 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 11/4/2014
Posts: 2
Location: Nairobi
Ok. So all gains made to date for BAAM investors is fully attributable to this Cytonn guys exclusively?
kangi
#128 Posted : Thursday, November 13, 2014 6:12:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 526
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Investreal wrote:
obviously reading the young man's replying affidavit, it was obvious that him and the wazees were reading from different pages. looks like ed and team were concerned about baam investors and the wazees were only concerned about their pockets. their job was to make money for investors and charge a fee, but looks like wazee wanted them to make money for them only, and at no fee.and by the way, who is wairegi to stop payment? ...he is not the fund manager. so we are getting closer to the story: britam says it was defrauded, acorn says it is being forcefully acquired, and cytonn says they did not want to be used to screw investors. so who is right? as for wairegi, he looks very clueless sana, how do you say you were defrauded of 4 billion invested over a 4 month period? he def did not understand what was going on in baam at all, i think dande played him like a guitar. that mzee needs to go home. hope he has a clue what is going on in insurance and sales, maybe he is losing billions there too?


Finally someone who gets what the real problem is all about.

Interesting to say the least. In a firm where JM is a principal shareholder and billions are wired without his/their knowledge? These wazees are not that dumb.
Accept no one's definition of your life; define your life.
Realtreaty
#129 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2014 12:13:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
iMANI
#130 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2014 12:51:08 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2008
Posts: 84



@Realtreaty...none of your 'RINKS' that you post ever open...or is it just my browser??
Life and beer are very similar........chill for best results.


maka
#131 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2014 1:59:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
iMANI wrote:



@Realtreaty...none of your 'RINKS' that you post ever open...or is it just my browser??

Tried it also not working...
possunt quia posse videntur
hisah
#132 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2014 3:22:42 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
maka wrote:
iMANI wrote:



@Realtreaty...none of your 'RINKS' that you post ever open...or is it just my browser??

Tried it also not working...

Using wrong format to post links.

Click here to access the Britam story

$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
Realtreaty
#133 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:51:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
Though the Britam -Cytton case has to be determined...its becoming a common knowledge that Cytton is feeling the pain and seem to be loosing. The best thing would be its foster mother ACORN to try and settle the case out of court by agreeing on an amount plus costs and take it as a deposit by Britam increase its shareholding in Acorn from say the 25% to 35 or 40%. This will Give Britam a higher hand in acorn...and live continues!
Realtreaty
#134 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 4:28:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/16/2011
Posts: 2,297
BRITAM-CYTTON CASE
The Inspector General of Police, Director of Public Prosecutions and Director of Criminal Investigations have been granted 14 days to respond to two suits in which executives of two companies are seeking to block their arrest over alleged theft of Sh3.9 billion from financial services group Britam
Four Cytton managers who are also former executives at Britam—Edwin Dande, Elizabeth Nkukuu, Shiv Arora and Patricia Wanjama last week asked the court to stop their arraignment in court just days before CEO of Acorn Group (partly owned by Britam) Edward Kirathe had filed a suit seeking to stop the arrest of any Acorn employees.
Investreal
#135 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:51:30 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 11/12/2014
Posts: 4



I bumped into this link with regard to the 3.9 Billion.. see page 7...It shows exactly how the 3.9B was 'stolen'....http://www.cytonn.com/public-documents/civil-suit-361-replying-affidavit.pdf
Investreal
#136 Posted : Tuesday, November 25, 2014 5:15:45 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 11/12/2014
Posts: 4



I bumped into this link with regard to the 3.9 Billion.. see page 7...It shows exactly how the 3.9B was 'stolen'.... http://www.cytonn.com/pu...1-replying-affidavit.pdf
muganda
#137 Posted : Thursday, November 27, 2014 10:11:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
mawinder wrote:
https://cytonn.com/downloads/Project%20Ololua%20Karen%20Information%20Memorandum.pdf
I want to invest in the above.Any comments??????

So court says property and money to remain interstate until suit is determined. Dande asserts he did not benefit at all from the BAAM money.
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/busi...tam-acorn-case-extended/

This matter is very straightforward; after all the gymnastics, the 3.6bn will be returned and the sharp young men can look for someone else's money.

But what of trust, that most elusive currency! Will fund managers invest in Karen Olula Ridge for a 14% return with all the other corporate offers available? The biggest project Acorn cites in corporate profile remains Britam Tower in Upperhill.
VituVingiSana
#138 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2014 5:29:05 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,099
Location: Nairobi
muganda wrote:
mawinder wrote:
https://cytonn.com/downloads/Project%20Ololua%20Karen%20Information%20Memorandum.pdf
I want to invest in the above.Any comments??????

So court says property and money to remain interstate until suit is determined. Dande asserts he did not benefit at all from the BAAM money.
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/busi...tam-acorn-case-extended/

This matter is very straightforward; after all the gymnastics, the 3.6bn will be returned and the sharp young men can look for someone else's money.

But what of trust, that most elusive currency! Will fund managers invest in Karen Olula Ridge for a 14% return with all the other corporate offers available? The biggest project Acorn cites in corporate profile remains Britam Tower in Upperhill.

LMAO... I doubt the Britam Tower project will remain an Acorn deal for much longer...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mkonomtupu
#139 Posted : Wednesday, April 08, 2015 4:34:45 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
mkonomtupu wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
What is Britam telling us about their policies, systems and risk management among 'other' issues.


When you see LLPs and off-shore corporations be afraid. If our CMA was serious they would be asking tough questions. For this share and its sister Centum the issue is all about risk management.

These are the kind of buses that drop off the cliff. Know when to walk away, know when to run


Hope CMA will ask tough questions on systems and risk management.You don't wait until the bus falls off Nithi bridge

http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.as...&m=656163#post656163
selah
#140 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2015 12:59:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
I have gone through Ex-britam staff values cytonn at sh1bn and I dont know if it is the real edwin dande commenting but I like how active he is in the comment section. below are his comments.

Quote:


MzaledoKE
This story is fishy, a start up which is hardly two years old cannot be worth 1.1B. That's a big lie. Show us the revenues to justify the value.


Edwin Dande reply to MzaledoKE
MzaledoKE, I am part of the team that run's Cytonn, you are welcome to come to our offices and confirm whatever you would like to confirm. We are on statehouse avenue, liason house, 3rd floor. Fund management is not about how long a company has been incorporated, its about he depth and experience of the team behind the brand. "Africa has vast opportunities for committed entrepreneurs", said Haku, seize the opportunity.


kijana2014 •
Looks like some players in the market have sided with Cytonn and put some skin in the game.


Edwin Dande reply to kijana2014.
Investors want returns and performance, and the best returns are in real estate and private equity ...they will go with whoever delivers.


The Thinker

Would be great if a story was to be written on the BAAM and Cytonn fall out.

Edwin Dande reply to The Thinker
The Thinker, bring the writer we tell our story.


kevin
True but in the case of business, this could be bad publicity


Edwin Dande reply to kevin
There is nothing like bad publicity, all publicity is good publicity. The question is what you do with the publicity. If you have depth and substance to put behind the publicity, publicity gives you the stage to showcase your capabilities. Being sued was probably the best free marketing ever given to the Cytonn brand.


'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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