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IMF: Kenya's economy self reliant, don't need EU
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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guru267 wrote:Liv wrote:Can someone educate me dispassionately how electing Uhuruto will bring US & Europe sanctions against Kenya. Let me try and be as dispassionate as possible!  1. If we elect UhuRuto and they co operate with the Hague then there won't be sanctions but just a cut in ties with the West to the bare essentials.. 2. If we elect UhuRuto and they DO NOT co operate then we will be in for sanctions.. Nb: (The Kenyan constitution gives immunity to the incumbent president from prosecution OF ANY KIND) The discussions here have made on an assumption that Uhuruto will not cooperate with ICC. Yet in the presidential debate... UK said he is keen to clear his name whether he becomes president or not.
A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Nabwire wrote:You know what, you're just wasting my time now,you are quoting the freaking UK for me? Does anyone even care about the UK anymore? Your article talked about sanctions against banks incorporated in Iran, if I send an ATM card, ofcourse it would be of an American bank so there's no logic there. 1. @miss simpleton have you ever heard of using an example to explain your point?? You mustve done 8-4-4! 2. If UK could do it then what stops the US?? 3. If it could be implemented in Iran with a GDP of $350billion then what makes it hard in Kenya?? 4. The point of sanctions is to frustrate citizens to the point the president is thrown from gava by his own people.. So size of the country doesn't really matter (Zimbabwe is much smaller than Kenya economically) Sorry for taking you back to school on a public forum but some people just need the help!! Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then? @liv here's the thing! 1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution... 2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate! 3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them?? Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 10/13/2011 Posts: 67 Location: Kenya
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@Guru267; Talk of scaring us with a dead snake. I suspect you an agent of CORD sent to propagate their propaganda in Wazua. Always speculating and predicting the worst for Kenya. Our people are still fighting for justice in UK courts for "crimes against humanity" during the Mau Mau era. Bring them on, kwani iko nini?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@guru if the west/EU cut ties, this will not be easy since corporations will sue them as in the case here below in Iran http://www.presstv.ir/de...s-on-iran-bank-saderat/
The European Union's (EU) General Court has ordered the bloc to lift sanctions against the Iranian state-owned Bank Saderat. The Court ordered removal of Bank Saderat sanctions on Wednesday saying that the EU has failed to provide evidence that the bank is involved in Iran's nuclear energy program The EU has two months to appeal the verdictLast Week, the European Court of Justice also issued a similar ruling about Bank Mellat which has also been the target of anti-Iran sanctions. In December 2012, the Luxemburg-based Court of Justice also ordered the EU to lift its sanctions against Iranian private bank, Sina. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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guru267 wrote:Liv wrote:A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then? @liv here's the thing! 1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution... 2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate! 3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them?? @Guru, Do you really know what our constitution say about the protection of the president from legal proceedings?
Article 143 deals with this matter. Sub-article(4) says:The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is a party and which prohibits such immunityWhat is your understanding of this sub -article... I guess it says the opposite of what you have said above.
In my opinion if UK becomes president he will have no option than to cooperate with ICC. The constitution removes any immunity with regard to protection from the ICC treaty to which Kenya is a signatory.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:guru267 wrote:Liv wrote:A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then? @liv here's the thing! 1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution... 2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate! 3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them?? @Guru, Do you really know what our constitution say about the protection of the president from legal proceedings?
Article 143 deals with this matter. Sub-article(4) says:The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is a party and which prohibits such immunityWhat is your understanding of this sub -article... I guess it says the opposite of what you have said above.
In my opinion if UK becomes president he will have no option than to cooperate with ICC. The constitution removes any immunity with regard to protection from the ICC treaty to which Kenya is a signatory. @liv Thanks a lot for the education... I was merely quoting someone credible on wazua about the constitution! Sounds to me like you are ok with the west cutting ties so long as it doesn't carry the name "sanctions"?? Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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a4architect.com wrote:@guru if the west/EU cut ties, this will not be easy since corporations will sue them as in the case here below in Iran http://www.presstv.ir/de...s-on-iran-bank-saderat/
The European Union's (EU) General Court has ordered the bloc to lift sanctions against the Iranian state-owned Bank Saderat. The Court ordered removal of Bank Saderat sanctions on Wednesday saying that the EU has failed to provide evidence that the bank is involved in Iran's nuclear energy program The EU has two months to appeal the verdictLast Week, the European Court of Justice also issued a similar ruling about Bank Mellat which has also been the target of anti-Iran sanctions. In December 2012, the Luxemburg-based Court of Justice also ordered the EU to lift its sanctions against Iranian private bank, Sina. @a4architect.com IMHO "cutting ties to bare essentials" is not equal "sanctions"!! Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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guru267 wrote:Liv wrote:guru267 wrote:Liv wrote:A picture has been painted that electing UK and WR will result in sanctions for Kenya....and yet all this is based on an assumption that they will not cooperate. Why are you passing the message here that electing them = sanctions then? @liv here's the thing! 1. These guys have to implement the constitution to the letter! By attending trial at the Hague as a sitting president UhuRu would be violating the constitution... 2. I know you don't believe everything you hear as they say they will co operate! 3. The West will cut ties with Kenya whether UhuRuto co operate or not due to their own laws that require them to keep a distance from suspected warlords! Isn't this a form of sanctions given how much we need them?? @Guru, Do you really know what our constitution say about the protection of the president from legal proceedings?
Article 143 deals with this matter. Sub-article(4) says:The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is a party and which prohibits such immunityWhat is your understanding of this sub -article... I guess it says the opposite of what you have said above.
In my opinion if UK becomes president he will have no option than to cooperate with ICC. The constitution removes any immunity with regard to protection from the ICC treaty to which Kenya is a signatory. @liv Thanks a lot for the education... I was merely quoting someone credible on wazua about the constitution! Sounds to me like you are ok with the west cutting ties so long as it doesn't carry the name "sanctions"?? @Guru, What does "cutting ties down to essentials" mean?
I have heard about "maintaining only essential contacts with the ICC suspects"
Do these 2 mean the same?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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http://www.theeastafrica...4/-/jrnu0h/-/index.html
Quote:But the EU still remains Kenya’s major export market and its biggest source of tourists.
In 2011, the EU absorbed 26 per cent of Kenya’s total exports, while also being the largest source of tourists visiting the country. Total exports to the European Union increased by 17.4 per cent in 2011 compared with a 6.4 per cent increase in 2010.
The increase in exports to the UK was largely on account of increased exports of cut flowers, tea and beans.
In terms of aid, the EU as a bloc has distributed over Ksh30 billion ($344 million) in the past five years, but the contribution from individual countries is much higher. Sanctions against Kenya from the bloc could hurt the country’s tourism and horticulture sectors as well as the country’s debut $500 million Eurobond, to be issued later this year, investment analysts said.
Domenico Fanizza, assistant director at the IMF, said the agency’s biggest concern was a peaceful outcome so that its programme with Kenya is not disrupted.
Although Kenya has improved its ability to finance its national budget by up to 85 per cent, the country still requires aid, with the West being one of the main sources of assistance, although not direct budgetary assistance.
“Kenya doesn’t really need donors, although it certainly could use donor funds to bolster its development spending, as many emerging economies have demonstrated,” said Shantayanan Devarajan, the World Bank’s chief economist for Africa, adding only some 15 per cent of Kenya’s public expenditures are foreign-financed, compared with more than 40 per cent in other EAC countries.
The level of diplomatic contact between Kenya and the West has been growing due to the longstanding relations built since before Independence.
Kenya, for example, hosts the British Army Training Unit Kenya in Laikipia, the only such programme in Africa, while the United States Army has a military presence in Lamu.
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