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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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poundfoolish wrote:Much Know wrote:@ngalaka Jommo Kenyatta said Moi tosha! was it tribal? 20years later Raila said Moi tosha! where were the gema then? In 2002 he said Kibaki tosha (never mind he had signed a secret self serving MOU). It is not about tribe except for the cords(kabila mbili). moot point again.. Mzees prefered choice was his personal doc. who sadly fellout over very private matters.. at 80 mzee had had all the nyamachoma he needed. choirs and land to last 5generations... he didnt care or senile enough to know what is.. infact some of his statements to clarify his strength were proving the great statesman was losing it..(rem the 'uliza mama...' comment?') Kihika Kimani n Njenga Karume had a plan... so did Njonjo  Why resort to hearsay and rumors when HIS ACTIONS and the facts are clear. Kenyatta kept Moi as VP for a long time and was clear about his succession. BTW this "Kenya was at par with Malaysia" story Tinga peddles was thanks to Kenyatta, the year was 1978, he was a capitalist "laissez faire" economist and even Singapore's famed President Lee Kuan Yew sent technocrats here to study him, Tingas dad was pushing for revolutionary communism like many others in Africa. In an authoritative study of Africa's fifty year Independence history he has been vindicated as Africa's best Independence leader, you name a leader that left a better legacy in Africa. He is the reason Kenya withstood many of the trials many African states have gone through. I so revere him so lets speak facts, he appointed Moi as VP to succeed him, was this tribalism? Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Liv, you keep referring to emotions. Nobody is emotional, we are just chatting. As to what you said or meant. You don't need to actually say the words for me to interpret their meanings. You say Gema folk want a government that will protect their property. So my question to you is this, based on Kenya's past history, there have been 3 governments, which one did not protect the Gema peoples properties. And why did this government not uphold its constitutional duty to protect its citizens properties.
@Obi, I guess you have now understood what I meant to say. Gema people are not special from other communities. But some lost properties in 2007/ 2008 and that has contributed to railaphobia.
About the 3 governments, everyone here can answer your question. You too can analyze the pros and cons of each of the governments with respect to that issue.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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If it were not for the 1982 communist revolutionary coup (reforms), maybe Kenya would be at par with Malaysia. The phobia is real and necessary! Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Much Know wrote:@ngalaka Jommo Kenyatta said Moi tosha! was it tribal? 20years later Raila said Moi tosha! where were the gema then? In 2002 he said Kibaki tosha (never mind he had signed a secret self serving MOU). It is not about tribe except for the cords(kabila mbili). Hopeless attempt at re-writing history! J. Kenyatta died in office, and as per the Law then, Moi, the VP took over the reins of power! In fact there was hue and cry from Central why Moi shouldn’t be let to ascend to power, but Njonjo stood for the law. Up to date, Njonjo is a pariah in Central!! I am not aware of Raila declaring Moi Tosha. I maintain Central has never supported/voted for anyone from outside! I may also go further and say they are overly contemptuous of other people! Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Much Know wrote:If it were not for the 1982 communist revolutionary coup (reforms), maybe Kenya would be at par with Malaysia. The phobia is real and necessary! No it is not. Where does the phobia come from? I believe from these issues: 1.Cultural differences-sifafanui 2.Historical political differences 3.2007 violence and subsequent loss of property. 4.2003/08 rent crisis 5.Perceived arrogance of RAO supporters should he be President. Other reasons like '82 coup, corruption, nepotism and tribalism are not unique to GEMA. RAO has almost shed tears in pleading with GEMA that he is not as evil as you perceive him to be. Is he genuine? I think UMK rule with sanctions will be worse than RAO rule with prosperity for GEMA. As XSK told you we are under katiba mpya!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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Ngalaka wrote:Much Know wrote:@ngalaka Jommo Kenyatta said Moi tosha! was it tribal? 20years later Raila said Moi tosha! where were the gema then? In 2002 he said Kibaki tosha (never mind he had signed a secret self serving MOU). It is not about tribe except for the cords(kabila mbili). Hopeless attempt at re-writing history! J. Kenyatta died in office, and as per the Law then, Moi, the VP took over the reins of power! In fact there was hue and cry from Central why Moi shouldn’t be let to ascend to power, but Njonjo stood for the law. Up to date, Njonjo is a pariah in Central!! I am not aware of Raila declaring Moi Tosha. I maintain Central has never supported/voted for anyone from outside! I may also go further and say they are overly contemptuous of other people! Well i guess Kenyatta did not know he can die, that's what you're implying? He appointed his successor(and did not expect to die otherwise he would have appointed a kikuyu quickly) and in essence voted for Moi(that was the constitution and law then) and whereas the Attorney General simply upheld the law (you have some alternative major conspiracy theory). You have the choice not to see every action through your tribal lenses as is now clear, you are the one re-writing history to make it tribal because everything is clear to me or any "non-tribal" observer, the facts are clear. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Liv wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Liv, you keep referring to emotions. Nobody is emotional, we are just chatting. As to what you said or meant. You don't need to actually say the words for me to interpret their meanings. You say Gema folk want a government that will protect their property. So my question to you is this, based on Kenya's past history, there have been 3 governments, which one did not protect the Gema peoples properties. And why did this government not uphold its constitutional duty to protect its citizens properties.
@Obi, I guess you have now understood what I meant to say. Gema people are not special from other communities. But some lost properties in 2007/ 2008 and that has contributed to railaphobia.
About the 3 governments, everyone here can answer your question. You too can analyze the pros and cons of each of the governments with respect to that issue. Even non Gema kenyans lost property in this time, mostly in Nakuru, Naivasha and Nairobi Slums. Others lost their lives through police brutality. We were all victims. Why don't you then blame the president at that time MK for not protecting kenya citizens. Why focus on RAO who was not in govt. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Ngalaka wrote:ing history!
J. Kenyatta died in office, and as per the Law then, Moi, the VP took over the reins of power!
In fact there was hue and cry from Central why Moi shouldn’t be let to ascend to power, but Njonjo stood for the law.
Up to date, Njonjo is a pariah in Central!!
I am not aware of Raila declaring Moi Tosha.
I maintain Central has never supported/voted for anyone from outside!
I may also go further and say they are overly contemptuous of other people!
You are increasingly showing symptoms of the AKA disease that affects some wazuans. Njonjo is a pariah? Hiyo sikujua. If he is it must be coz of the stupid comments he made at Uhuru park in 2005! Who do you think central should have voted for in 1992, 1997,2002, 2007 and who should they go for in 2013? Why?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Even non Gema kenyans lost property in this time, mostly in Nakuru, Naivasha and Nairobi Slums. Others lost their lives through police brutality. We were all victims.
Why don't you then blame the president at that time MK for not protecting kenya citizens. Why focus on RAO who was not in govt.
It is a fact that most of the people who were affected were from Gema and this was meant to be by the instigators of the violence.... hence the increase of railaphobia.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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Lolest! wrote:Much Know wrote:If it were not for the 1982 communist revolutionary coup (reforms), maybe Kenya would be at par with Malaysia. The phobia is real and necessary! No it is not. Where does the phobia come from? I believe from these issues: 1.Cultural differences-sifafanui 2.Historical political differences 3.2007 violence and subsequent loss of property. 4.2003/08 rent crisis 5.Perceived arrogance of RAO supporters should he be President. Other reasons like '82 coup, corruption, nepotism and tribalism are not unique to GEMA. RAO has almost shed tears in pleading with GEMA that he is not as evil as you perceive him to be. Is he genuine? I think UMK rule with sanctions will be worse than RAO rule with prosperity for GEMA. As XSK told you we are under katiba mpya! So what is his "secret solution" to waitiki farm at the coast he was promising squatters? Have you heard of Presidents suspending a constitution? It is just a paper, particularly revolutionary ones to implement their magic reforms? They can even hold another referendum on their new "reformed" constitution, do you want to guess who will win? could the presidential term be extended to give time for "reforms", if you trust him, well and good, it's your vote, i prefer the imaginary sanctions. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@much know, there is no denying it. RAO is extremely populist. Infact, I think his reign would be close to that of Moi in populist moves. The good side is, the courts are independent and the IG of police is not handpicked by the President.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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Lolest! wrote:@much know, there is no denying it. RAO is extremely populist. In fact, I think his reign would be close to that of Moi in populist moves. The good side is, the courts are independent and the IG of police is not handpicked by the President. true perhaps, but you see maybe the phobia (which i am a patient of) works, so i am extremely skeptical and fearful, i had warmed up to him thinking he had changed but the "32/- / 70/-" unga, his canaan apartments (of which he could not give me one, i am paying rent and think i was more deserving) and most recently his waitiki farm remarks have reaffirmed his ideology and sent me reeling in fear. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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I am beginning to understand what Railaphobia is.
But let me ask; what happens then, if Cord wins the elections?
And if Railaphobia has been with us for sometime, even before 2007, could it have been the cause of PEV?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Lolest! wrote:Ngalaka wrote:ing history!
J. Kenyatta died in office, and as per the Law then, Moi, the VP took over the reins of power!
In fact there was hue and cry from Central why Moi shouldn’t be let to ascend to power, but Njonjo stood for the law.
Up to date, Njonjo is a pariah in Central!!
I am not aware of Raila declaring Moi Tosha.
I maintain Central has never supported/voted for anyone from outside!
I may also go further and say they are overly contemptuous of other people!
You are increasingly showing symptoms of the AKA disease that affects some wazuans. Njonjo is a pariah? Hiyo sikujua. If he is it must be coz of the stupid comments he made at Uhuru park in 2005! Who do you think central should have voted for in 1992, 1997,2002, 2007 and who should they go for in 2013? Why? Ala, You didnt know how Njonjo is viewed in the larger Mountain, yet you go ahead to explain why he is viewed dismally!! You ask who I think Central should have voted in the previous elections!! Now now now, I said here before that the Mountains will always manufacture some convenient excuses to reject Candidates who come from outside the Mountains! We expect the same in 2017, 2022, etc, They wont find any good candidate from amongst other people, only Central Candidates will meet their expectations. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@ngalaka, focus! I did not hear any anti-Njonjo insults prior to 2005. Even when he was close to Moi around year 2000 there was no much fuss. Is Cord moving into the 41 vs 1 strategy?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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So much noise for nothing: It's confessed even on BBC that kalenjins planned to attack/evict kiuks from RV whether Raila won or lost....this was organized by Kale leaders.....now central embraces Ruto and continue to castigate Raila....it's purely about Mt. Kenya belief that they must always rule....no issue about Raila.....it is either central or central mentality. ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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McReggae wrote:So much noise for nothing: It's confessed even on BBC that kalenjins planned to attack/evict kiuks from RV whether Raila won or lost....this was organized by Kale leaders.....now central embraces Ruto and continue to castigate Raila....it's purely about Mt. Kenya belief that they must always rule....no issue about Raila.....it is either central or central mentality. One of the rules of play in Kenyan politics seems to be play to acquire more wealth and property and use political office to safeguard the execution of this rule. Death and suffering are secondary considerations. Tribes are veils for hiding these operations. If Kales had planned to 'repossess' property irrespective of a Raila win, then Raila has little to offer them. And so is it for the so called Mt. Kenya. Raila can only promise to help those who may be considered as 'outsiders' to actualize the above political rule. And this will tend to policies of 'redistribution', and 'repossession'. Hence Railaphobia. It's not about tribe, it's about how the Kenyan political economy works.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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What is it with Railaphobia, mnaogopa nini In the Coalition govt: We built wonderful roads (Ministry of Roads), completed the VP's lovely house (Ministry of Public Works), streamlined the issuance of IDs and Passports (Ministry of Immigration), resurrected Moi Referral Hosp from a collapsed institution (Min of Health), wiped out corruption and conmen at the lands registry (Ministry of Lands), dug dams in Ukambani (Min of Water), increased subsidies to farmers apart from growing the capacity of KARI for research on food security (Ministry of Agriculture), put the country firmly on the road to achieving Vision 2030 (Min of Planning), doubled the number of tourists visiting our country (Min of Tourism), then we crowned it by improving civil service working conditions and introduced performance contracts (Ministry of Public Service). However, there were challenges too! Like rampant insecurity (Min of Internal Security), skewed promotions in the military (Min of Defence), tender corruption and tribalism at KAA and KPA (Min of Transport), massive tribalism and nepotism at KRA and Treasury (Min of Finance), IDPs still live in rain soaked tents (Min of Special Progs), high fuel costs (Min of Energy). Happy retirement Mwai Kibaki. Long live Raila Odinga. ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:If it were not for the 1982 communist revolutionary coup (reforms), maybe Kenya would be at par with Malaysia. The phobia is real and necessary! If you are a good student of history, you will be surprised who were happier about the coup then.. and getting rid of Moi was celebrated sana... ..as for Moi's appointment.. it was not about sucession but the Kanu Kadu 'merger' taming Ngala... and the gem.... allowing displaced Africans from reserves to new settlements... the diaspora kyuks as referef to.. it was a way of pacifying the locals... which leads me to ask. How old are you? Did you read more history than what was in your 'pass exams' text books.. Did you take history in highschool.?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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poundfoolish wrote:Much Know wrote:If it were not for the 1982 communist revolutionary coup (reforms), maybe Kenya would be at par with Malaysia. The phobia is real and necessary! If you are a good student of history, you will be surprised who were happier about the coup then.. and getting rid of Moi was celebrated sana... ..as for Moi's appointment.. it was not about sucession but the Kanu Kadu 'merger' taming Ngala... and the gem.... allowing displaced Africans from reserves to new settlements... the diaspora kyuks as referef to.. it was a way of pacifying the locals... which leads me to ask. How old are you? Did you read more history than what was in your 'pass exams' text books.. Did you take history in highschool.? As for who was happier, i was not aware steadman was there to carry out an opinion poll. As for your Moi appointment, then what of his appointing J. Odinga VP and never a kiuk successor? He sacked him for his communist leanings and Moi ended up as VP later purely on merit and ideoloy. Yes i study history , do you? Ras Kienyeji Man
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