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Waiting to exhale on this Nairobi City!!!!
sparkly
#61 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:32:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
How will there be a burst? The people pumping money into real estate are mostly using cash. This means that there are hardly any creditors to call in what they are owed, which is usually what triggers a bubble burst. The painful reality is there are just some things that Kenyans are suckers for, and will buy at whatever cost. Even when you look at other billion shilling industries, such as cars, phones, electronic gadgets etc, Kenyans buy those things at obscenely inflated prices, but since they are all using cash, there is no bubble to burst.
Good point! Mostly businesses take loans. Individuals borrow from SACCOs.
Life is short. Live passionately.
murchr
#62 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 6:18:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
ChessMaster wrote:
Lets start talking demand so we can understand this whole situation better? Is the demand based on need of new house/apartments or people wanting to change houses?
@Vj. You have spoken like 3 wise men. ChessMaster, let me help you understand. Those who bought apartments around 2003 have grown out of their hse now and are thinking of upgrading into new houses with space and social ammenities like schools, shopping centers near them. Then there are those who are now tired of paying rent and are thinking, why not pay this money to a bank as mortgage payments, after all its kinda the same...
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
ChessMaster
#63 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 7:56:30 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
@murchr - This group that wants to move to home ownership from paying rent,won't they leave apartments for the others to acquire? Will this not affect the market apartments? A bubble isn't necessarily caused by credit.It is fuelled by credit. My view of Kenyan real estate is this. Real estate is one of the prominent investment avenues Kenyans consider. The buy, hold and sell strategy that everyone believes to be true. I think in the beginning there was demand for land.Then speculators started entering the market and things changed. Now demand became superficial and not based on real demand(based on utility).What I believe is happening is speculators are mostly selling to themselves and creating the bubble. One speculator buys land sells it to another speculator after a price rise. The second speculator sells the land to the third speculator and it goes on. The speculators also target a new area and the cycle goes on. Now wazuans,these are my thoughts dissect them thoroughly so I can get my wrong assumptions behind me.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
sentinel prime
#64 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:39:40 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 11/12/2012
Posts: 92
I had written a lenghty post about land valuation during independence and the decades after.....the stage of economic growth and historical inflation rates but I cancelled it. Why? its naive to argue. let's sit back and relax...at least piracy money in eastleigh kwisha, for a start ....
Mukiri
#65 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:55:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
Vj wrote:
The only thing that can cause a massive price crash is political instability. Our economy is glued to politics and if things get haywire, a huge number of people will be left unable to pay their mortgages resulting in a surge in defaults and over the roof foreclosures. There will be a massive oversupply in houses with no buyers and no lenders in the pictures. All the big money will move out and it’ll take years to rebuild. Otherwise its very unlikely for the market to crash, however a correction has been on the table from 2010 but hasn’t seriously shown its face in the market yet. The nation article lists the following as a cause of a bubble: “low bank interest rates, variable rate loans, easy-to-get credit, a willingness of home buyers to take out second and third mortgages, long-term repayment terms and mortgages that exceed the value of the home” How many of the above factors do you think apply to our situation? I can tell you for a fact that Kenyan banks don’t hand out money like fools and it’s almost unlikely that you’ll get a mortgage beyond what you can afford. The real reason behind Nairobi prices is an emerging middle class, yes there are many new IT guys, lawyers and other professionals who have the earning power (not seen in moi days) to afford houses and apartments within prime estates, the second crop of people are those who bought apartments early on and are now moving to villas. It also needs to be understood that these people have their lifestyles entrenched in the area they live in i.e. schools, church, shopping, social circles etc. So until we have the necessary infrastructure to complement this lifestyle outside the city, Nairobi will be a residential hotspot. The opening of thika highway is not enough to dampen the market, at least 3 other highways originating in areas which can provide the same alternative lifestyle are needed. Such infrastructure wouldn’t come overnight, it would take around 20-30 years. Meanwhile Nairobi is an expanding hub, coupled with the oil discovery and increasing population which is likely to earn more, there is no way a crash is imminent. Please don’t compare the general American real estate market to ours; we operate on completely different dynamics. The house posted on this thread is in florida, a place where there are is no significant economic or employment opportunity yet it has a serious housing oversupply. Secondly suburban houses in America are made of wood and prefab boards thus the cost is lower than a proper Kenyan house made of stone and concrete. Thirdly most of our finishing are imported and thus overpriced, so if you want quality you got to pay for it. If you really feel the need to compare then compare our market with places with limited infrastructure or no room to expand like Sao Paulo or Manhattan and let us know what you find. In 2001 I sold 4 bedroom apartments in westlands for 1.8 million, so I know a rough market and trust me we are still far from it. An apartment project which started in January is already 65% sold with around half the buyers coming in with cash. My completed projects i.e offices, apartments and villas are almost sold out, just one or two units remaining on every project. The guys who are facing problems right now are those who have no clue what real estate is about, they saw people making money, thought its an easy game and jumped right in. A correction would be a nice way to weed them out. And @Rapudox: Start making that 150,000 work for you and you'll be where you want in a few years.
Get me a similar apartment for a similar price and I'll sing your praises everywhere! tismukiri et oohay dt kom.Pray
Proverbs 19:21
Pesa Nane
#66 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:17:09 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/25/2012
Posts: 4,105
Location: 08c
Beware: 1. Developer are sustained by credit + your 10% off-plan deposit. That already explains the delays (and even stalling) in most projects because of the high interest rates of 2011.
Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
Pesa Nane
#67 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:19:28 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/25/2012
Posts: 4,105
Location: 08c
Beware: 2. Artificial Demand: There are not many buyers but a few who are buying in multiples with view to sell. That explains the low occupancy rates in the completed projects
Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
itz
#68 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:24:09 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
itz wrote:
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
guru267 wrote:
devolution next year will lead to a fall in land prices around Nairobi!..
How? Explain using examples
I have been to ruiru and kiambu county and these areas could compare easily to Karen & runda in a few years with the housing construction & infrastructure.. But there are huge discrepancies in land prices (Karen = 40M @acre & kiambu = 8M @acre) Devolution will also reduce demand for property in Nairobi as Kenyans begin to feel comfortable living and working in their own counties! This will probably lead to lower prices around Nairobi and higher land prices in the other counties.. So you know where to buy! smile
yes Kiambu county will appreciate in the coming years as it becomes the suburb area of choice for many.However this will not be the same for all the other counties until as someone here very well pointed out that people will move out of nairobi area to the counties if big employers relocate or establish new business in the counties. All the big players have just relocated their HQs from CBD to upperhill or westlands.They clearly have no plans to leave nairobi in the short to medium term.Kiambu county would be my no.1 choice for investment because of proximity to nairobi,it has money and large investors are willing to put money in it.
@Vj. i had expressed almost similar views to yours in that Nairobi has very different dynamics in the way it is setup and the fact that it remains the number one destination for big employers and in the short to medium term it doesn't look like this fact will change.However going forward i think you have to be very tactical so as get returns seen in the last 10 years.I would like to have a short chat with you if you don't mind on matters nairobi real estate.my email is its737@yahoo.com.cheers
Pesa Nane
#69 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:24:46 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/25/2012
Posts: 4,105
Location: 08c
Beware: 3. Cash Buyers. Most of these buyers can afford a single unit but pay the 10% off-plan deposit for several units. They aim to sell on completion without even paying full amount, strategy of transfer of rights to third parties. The domino will start when these 'cash buyers' have no-one to sell to on completion of projects
Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
Rapudox
#70 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:47:22 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/30/2010
Posts: 65
Location: Europe
@Pesa Nane..Word!
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