Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
Is it the right time to buy CENTUM?
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,342 Location: Nairobi
|
Even though Centum is a core holding for me, it is looking increasingly attractive and I might add more cash permitting. They are flexible and adapting to the new environments. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 7/6/2018 Posts: 175 Location: Kinshasa
|
kmucheke wrote:Ericsson wrote:MaichBlack wrote:kmucheke wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Balaa wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/markets/capital-markets/centum-subsidiary-eyes-boda-boda-riders-with-unit-trust--2720268 Centum subsidiary eyes boda boda riders with Sh50 a day savings scheme Doesn't this change of tack feel like a sense of deja vu? Reminds me of the Kenyan banks' change of attitude towards the income earners at the bottom of the food chain before Equity Bank showed up in town with their model of banking the unbankable. Now, just like in the aftermath following Equity Bank's game changer, Centum is back in the streets hawking their hitherto elitist MMF product in the same manner top tier banks had to eat humble pie and started hawking loan products to Average Joe in the streets! How was Centum's MMF elitist? The minimum amount has been 1M and topup 100k with 1M being the minimum holding amount. I think this is what @Balaa meant as "elitist". Nabo Capital KSh. Money Market Fund minimum amounts and topupsNabo Capital Money Market Fund (KES) Minimum Initial Subscription Amount 1,000,000/=
Minimum Subsequent Subscription Amount 100,000/=
Minimum Holding Amount 1,000,000/= And that is class D!!! The lowest. Class A minimum initial subscription is 100,000,000/= with top ups of 1,000,000/= Even in the arrangement proposed for boda boda operators,they won't contribute their ksh.50 directly. Instead they will contribute to the investment/sacco which will then pool the funds and open a single account with Nabo capital for onward investment. Quote:Centum-owned Sidian Bank will be the receiving bank for the product that is riding on a mobile application developed by Tribus TSG. Quote:Tribus TSG Limited is the solution arm of Centum Investment Company Plc that offers a wide variety of solutions ranging from soft and hard Services all the way to continent first cutting-edge technologies. What happened to Nabo Capital’s Wanafunzi Investment Unit Trust Fund ? LINK According to the CMA Quarterly Statistical Bulletin Q3 2020 "Wanafunzi Investments managed the least portfolio at KES 161,359". Rather pedestrian  https://cma.or.ke/index....mp;id=79&Itemid=259
Wonder how they're sustaining the Secretariat https://wanafunzi.co.ke/about-us/
But it's reassuring to see good old McFie (for those who went through his hand at SOA) as Chairman. The old man's principled. If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,804 Location: NAIROBI
|
Balaa wrote:kmucheke wrote:Ericsson wrote:MaichBlack wrote:kmucheke wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Balaa wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/markets/capital-markets/centum-subsidiary-eyes-boda-boda-riders-with-unit-trust--2720268 Centum subsidiary eyes boda boda riders with Sh50 a day savings scheme Doesn't this change of tack feel like a sense of deja vu? Reminds me of the Kenyan banks' change of attitude towards the income earners at the bottom of the food chain before Equity Bank showed up in town with their model of banking the unbankable. Now, just like in the aftermath following Equity Bank's game changer, Centum is back in the streets hawking their hitherto elitist MMF product in the same manner top tier banks had to eat humble pie and started hawking loan products to Average Joe in the streets! How was Centum's MMF elitist? The minimum amount has been 1M and topup 100k with 1M being the minimum holding amount. I think this is what @Balaa meant as "elitist". Nabo Capital KSh. Money Market Fund minimum amounts and topupsNabo Capital Money Market Fund (KES) Minimum Initial Subscription Amount 1,000,000/=
Minimum Subsequent Subscription Amount 100,000/=
Minimum Holding Amount 1,000,000/= And that is class D!!! The lowest. Class A minimum initial subscription is 100,000,000/= with top ups of 1,000,000/= Even in the arrangement proposed for boda boda operators,they won't contribute their ksh.50 directly. Instead they will contribute to the investment/sacco which will then pool the funds and open a single account with Nabo capital for onward investment. Quote:Centum-owned Sidian Bank will be the receiving bank for the product that is riding on a mobile application developed by Tribus TSG. Quote:Tribus TSG Limited is the solution arm of Centum Investment Company Plc that offers a wide variety of solutions ranging from soft and hard Services all the way to continent first cutting-edge technologies. What happened to Nabo Capital’s Wanafunzi Investment Unit Trust Fund ? LINK According to the CMA Quarterly Statistical Bulletin Q3 2020 "Wanafunzi Investments managed the least portfolio at KES 161,359". Rather pedestrian https://cma.or.ke/index....mp;id=79&Itemid=259
Wonder how they're sustaining the Secretariat https://wanafunzi.co.ke/about-us/
But it's reassuring to see good old McFie (for those who went through his hand at SOA) as Chairman. The old man's principled. Hao pia walijaribu na Wanafunzi Investment Unit Trust Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,342 Location: Nairobi
|
Balaa wrote:kmucheke wrote:Ericsson wrote:MaichBlack wrote:kmucheke wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Balaa wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/markets/capital-markets/centum-subsidiary-eyes-boda-boda-riders-with-unit-trust--2720268 Centum subsidiary eyes boda boda riders with Sh50 a day savings scheme Doesn't this change of tack feel like a sense of deja vu? Reminds me of the Kenyan banks' change of attitude towards the income earners at the bottom of the food chain before Equity Bank showed up in town with their model of banking the unbankable. Now, just like in the aftermath following Equity Bank's game changer, Centum is back in the streets hawking their hitherto elitist MMF product in the same manner top tier banks had to eat humble pie and started hawking loan products to Average Joe in the streets! How was Centum's MMF elitist? The minimum amount has been 1M and topup 100k with 1M being the minimum holding amount. I think this is what @Balaa meant as "elitist". Nabo Capital KSh. Money Market Fund minimum amounts and topupsNabo Capital Money Market Fund (KES) Minimum Initial Subscription Amount 1,000,000/=
Minimum Subsequent Subscription Amount 100,000/=
Minimum Holding Amount 1,000,000/= And that is class D!!! The lowest. Class A minimum initial subscription is 100,000,000/= with top ups of 1,000,000/= Even in the arrangement proposed for boda boda operators,they won't contribute their ksh.50 directly. Instead they will contribute to the investment/sacco which will then pool the funds and open a single account with Nabo capital for onward investment. Quote:Centum-owned Sidian Bank will be the receiving bank for the product that is riding on a mobile application developed by Tribus TSG. Quote:Tribus TSG Limited is the solution arm of Centum Investment Company Plc that offers a wide variety of solutions ranging from soft and hard Services all the way to continent first cutting-edge technologies. What happened to Nabo Capital’s Wanafunzi Investment Unit Trust Fund ? LINK According to the CMA Quarterly Statistical Bulletin Q3 2020 "Wanafunzi Investments managed the least portfolio at KES 161,359". Rather pedestrian https://cma.or.ke/index....mp;id=79&Itemid=259
Wonder how they're sustaining the Secretariat https://wanafunzi.co.ke/about-us/
But it's reassuring to see good old McFie (for those who went through his hand at SOA) as Chairman. The old man's principled. Slick website. This seems to be run by Strathmore Business School (not Nabo) from McFie as Chairman to the SBS alumni and connections of the Secretariat. Partners include KCB, Equity, NSE, KBA, Nabo, etc. Students are broke but it's a good vehicle to teach them to save and invest. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,804 Location: NAIROBI
|
Centum Real estate to float $37mn bond Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,342 Location: Nairobi
|
Ericsson wrote:Centum Real estate to float $37mn bond Is it in USD? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,804 Location: NAIROBI
|
VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:Centum Real estate to float $37mn bond Is it in USD? Further details https://www.businessdail...4bn-housing-bond-2723642Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,721
|
Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:[quote=Ericsson]Centum Real estate to float $37mn bond Is it in USD? Further details https://www.businessdail...bn-housing-bond-2723642[/quote] Financial gymnastics. Danganya toto jinga. "We have a receivable of Sh6.8 billion from the sold units, which more than covers the bond redemption value. The bond is therefore a bridging finance solution to finance the construction of the pre-sold units" This is very clever of Centum but will be very foolish for bond buyers. What Centum is basically doing is telling you to be a Mortgage holder. Nyumba ziko, wakilipa utalipwa, wasipolipa utabaki na nyumba. The bond holders are being sold houses. Is this because there are no real buyers for the houses?
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,342 Location: Nairobi
|
Kusadikika wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:[quote=Ericsson]Centum Real estate to float $37mn bond Is it in USD? Further details https://www.businessdail...bn-housing-bond-2723642[/quote] Financial gymnastics. Danganya toto jinga. "We have a receivable of Sh6.8 billion from the sold units, which more than covers the bond redemption value. The bond is therefore a bridging finance solution to finance the construction of the pre-sold units" This is very clever of Centum but will be very foolish for bond buyers. What Centum is basically doing is telling you to be a Mortgage holder. Nyumba ziko, wakilipa utalipwa, wasipolipa utabaki na nyumba. The bond holders are being sold houses. Is this because there are no real buyers for the houses? A Bond and Mortgage are siblings. They are both loans. Centum has entered into contracts to sell the houses and it gets paid over time depending on the contract. Or CentumRE has taken a deposit and will be paid upon delivery of the completed unit. CentumRE also wants to start new projects while completing ongoing projects so they need the cash today. It's a timing issue more so with COVID. CentumRE (not the projects) is borrowing and it has multiple projects planned. So it's not Awali or Pearl Marina but CentumRe that's borrowing. Option 1 - Borrow from a bank. It costs more and has a lot of paperwork associated with it as each house is delivered since the bank has a lien on the entire property. Option 2 - Issue a bond that isn't tied to a specific project so as sales happen, the transfers are made to the buyers. At the end of 3 years, the bond can be refinanced/reissued or the cash is used to pay off the bond. As a bondholder, you are given an (call) option and if you so choose, you can either take the cash OR "exchange" part or whole your principal (& interest) for a property. Just like a traded Call Option, you know the underlying asset, Strike Date and Exercise Price. This is not a bond for those who do not understand the structure but geared towards institutions (eg insurance firms) and HNWIs whose needs for cash are different from most retail investors. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,804 Location: NAIROBI
|
VituVingiSana wrote:Kusadikika wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:[quote=Ericsson]Centum Real estate to float $37mn bond Is it in USD? Further details https://www.businessdail...bn-housing-bond-2723642[/quote] Financial gymnastics. Danganya toto jinga. "We have a receivable of Sh6.8 billion from the sold units, which more than covers the bond redemption value. The bond is therefore a bridging finance solution to finance the construction of the pre-sold units" This is very clever of Centum but will be very foolish for bond buyers. What Centum is basically doing is telling you to be a Mortgage holder. Nyumba ziko, wakilipa utalipwa, wasipolipa utabaki na nyumba. The bond holders are being sold houses. Is this because there are no real buyers for the houses? A Bond and Mortgage are siblings. They are both loans. Centum has entered into contracts to sell the houses and it gets paid over time depending on the contract. Or CentumRE has taken a deposit and will be paid upon delivery of the completed unit. CentumRE also wants to start new projects while completing ongoing projects so they need the cash today. It's a timing issue more so with COVID. CentumRE (not the projects) is borrowing and it has multiple projects planned. So it's not Awali or Pearl Marina but CentumRe that's borrowing. Option 1 - Borrow from a bank. It costs more and has a lot of paperwork associated with it as each house is delivered since the bank has a lien on the entire property. Option 2 - Issue a bond that isn't tied to a specific project so as sales happen, the transfers are made to the buyers. At the end of 3 years, the bond can be refinanced/reissued or the cash is used to pay off the bond. As a bondholder, you are given an (call) option and if you so choose, you can either take the cash OR "exchange" part or whole your principal (& interest) for a property. Just like a traded Call Option, you know the underlying asset, Strike Date and Exercise Price. This is not a bond for those who do not understand the structure but geared towards institutions (eg insurance firms) and HNWIs whose needs for cash are different from most retail investors. So your Kenya Re may be a buyer similar to the previous issue that was retired in June 2020 Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,342 Location: Nairobi
|
Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Kusadikika wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:[quote=Ericsson]Centum Real estate to float $37mn bond Is it in USD? Further details https://www.businessdail...bn-housing-bond-2723642[/quote] Financial gymnastics. Danganya toto jinga. "We have a receivable of Sh6.8 billion from the sold units, which more than covers the bond redemption value. The bond is therefore a bridging finance solution to finance the construction of the pre-sold units" This is very clever of Centum but will be very foolish for bond buyers. What Centum is basically doing is telling you to be a Mortgage holder. Nyumba ziko, wakilipa utalipwa, wasipolipa utabaki na nyumba. The bond holders are being sold houses. Is this because there are no real buyers for the houses? A Bond and Mortgage are siblings. They are both loans. Centum has entered into contracts to sell the houses and it gets paid over time depending on the contract. Or CentumRE has taken a deposit and will be paid upon delivery of the completed unit. CentumRE also wants to start new projects while completing ongoing projects so they need the cash today. It's a timing issue more so with COVID. CentumRE (not the projects) is borrowing and it has multiple projects planned. So it's not Awali or Pearl Marina but CentumRe that's borrowing. Option 1 - Borrow from a bank. It costs more and has a lot of paperwork associated with it as each house is delivered since the bank has a lien on the entire property. Option 2 - Issue a bond that isn't tied to a specific project so as sales happen, the transfers are made to the buyers. At the end of 3 years, the bond can be refinanced/reissued or the cash is used to pay off the bond. As a bondholder, you are given an (call) option and if you so choose, you can either take the cash OR "exchange" part or whole your principal (& interest) for a property. Just like a traded Call Option, you know the underlying asset, Strike Date and Exercise Price. This is not a bond for those who do not understand the structure but geared towards institutions (eg insurance firms) and HNWIs whose needs for cash are different from most retail investors. So your Kenya Re may be a buyer similar to the previous issue that was retired in June 2020 I do not sit on the Board or Investment Committee  but that's a possibility given Kenya Re is cash rich and can diversify its bond holdings. Insurance firms need to match their assets to their liabilities. There will be a need to pay out some liability or the other in 2023/2024 so this could work for them. Has Centum released the pricing? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,342 Location: Nairobi
|
The risk for CentumRE is the ability to collect Receivables as the economy slows down. Spending by GoK isn't a plus unless it is spent well on infrastructure or income producing assets. Knowing GoK...  Expect more scams as we head into 2022. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: New-farer Joined: 8/1/2018 Posts: 60 Location: Nairobi
|
VituVingiSana wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:Ericsson wrote:Share price on the verge of going below 20 My eyes trained on this, feels like chirubai is letting the flood gates wide open. Sniffing the streets for the bathe,,, ppt overwhelmed,,,, Waiting for the dividend. I might reinvest it into Centum. It's about patience and one's feelings at the time. Law #1: Optimism and pessimism will always overshoot because the boundaries of both can only be known in hindsight, once they’re passed. - Morgan Housel Tomorrow will be a better day. Follow your insinticts. There is no medicine like hope, no incentive so great, and no tonic so powerful as expectation of something better tomorrow.  the For a business like Centum, there will be hits and misses in the portfolio. Real estate will struggle but unlike HAFR or Cytonn, Centum seems OK. They are going to handover Awali Phase 1 (in Kilifi) to the buyers on 10th October. Longhorn took a huge hit but schools are re-opening and it has a digital and mobile product now. This is about the future for LKL which owns a lot of content. We have discussed others e.g. Amu, etc. At these prices, I would like to average down given the value I see in the future. What do you think is a good average price down, now that we agree down is the way to go @vvs. In that future I also wish to see centumn unlock it's potential and blow 2500/ on it's way up before I quit. As long as the fundamentals do not change then the cheaper the better!  I have NO idea how low it can go. If I did, I would sell today and buy later. When I said "average down" I do not mean I want to do it just to lower my ABP [which I do not really know given I have bought shares over the years] but I see value at 20/- today if one is patient. 2,500/share may be a stretch any time soon unless we have hyperinflation. I will go with Management's assessment of NAV. at ksh16.75 and still going down. Fundamentals haven't changed to explain the sharp fall, so still a good buy unless you're a short term trader. Sub 15 is ideal but who knows if it will get to that.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,804 Location: NAIROBI
|
Kibe21 wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:muandiwambeu wrote:Ericsson wrote:Share price on the verge of going below 20 My eyes trained on this, feels like chirubai is letting the flood gates wide open. Sniffing the streets for the bathe,,, ppt overwhelmed,,,, Waiting for the dividend. I might reinvest it into Centum. It's about patience and one's feelings at the time. Law #1: Optimism and pessimism will always overshoot because the boundaries of both can only be known in hindsight, once they’re passed. - Morgan Housel Tomorrow will be a better day. Follow your insinticts. There is no medicine like hope, no incentive so great, and no tonic so powerful as expectation of something better tomorrow. the For a business like Centum, there will be hits and misses in the portfolio. Real estate will struggle but unlike HAFR or Cytonn, Centum seems OK. They are going to handover Awali Phase 1 (in Kilifi) to the buyers on 10th October. Longhorn took a huge hit but schools are re-opening and it has a digital and mobile product now. This is about the future for LKL which owns a lot of content. We have discussed others e.g. Amu, etc. At these prices, I would like to average down given the value I see in the future. What do you think is a good average price down, now that we agree down is the way to go @vvs. In that future I also wish to see centumn unlock it's potential and blow 2500/ on it's way up before I quit. As long as the fundamentals do not change then the cheaper the better! I have NO idea how low it can go. If I did, I would sell today and buy later. When I said "average down" I do not mean I want to do it just to lower my ABP [which I do not really know given I have bought shares over the years] but I see value at 20/- today if one is patient. 2,500/share may be a stretch any time soon unless we have hyperinflation. I will go with Management's assessment of NAV. at ksh16.75 and still going down. Fundamentals haven't changed to explain the sharp fall, so still a good buy unless you're a short term trader. Sub 15 is ideal but who knows if it will get to that. Half Year Results to be out within the next two weeks will reveal the fundamentals. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,804 Location: NAIROBI
|
Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC) has withdrawn funding for the Lamu Coal project Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
Is it the right time to buy CENTUM?
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|