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Euphoria kando, consider this
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rasilio
#51 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 2:28:45 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 153
Location: FU
ngalaka

if you have an issue with any international law that is ratified, then you should vote wisely for your representative.

The spirit of the law allows you to state your cause in parliament and court.

So before the country's representatives rush to ratify any law, you have the right to fight it. All the way from the county level.

You are arguing a case where the present constitution the minister can go ratify any law out there without consulting anyone, especially you the voter.

I am sure you had no idea of the number of protocols Kenya has ratified thus far. Some are good for you others are not. This includes the wheat saga.

In the present law, you can do nothing about Kibaki joining the organisation of gays and lesbians on your behalf.

Read the spirit of the proposed constitution. If you are in the habit of not engaging with your leadership, then Yes, you will get some laws that you hate.

It is up to you to engage your leadership at every level to avoid this. Not me.

The gov't cannot ratify international laws that the people do not wish. that is why you have the power in the new constitution to engage gov't from the county, constituency and the senate.
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rasilio
#52 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 2:38:17 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 153
Location: FU
As for the land issue.

It is not the executive gov't that will decide on minimum or maximum land. It is the county gov't

The county gov't is like the councillors we have now. Again. If you vote in councillors who do not represent you, then you will be screwed with the minimum and maximum.

I will give you an example of the Karen area. They have minimum land that one can buy there. That ensures that their land values stay high.

Now, the county gov't will have the right to decide their acreage levels. It is not the executive or any other person. It is the county gov't that decides on this. Do you honestly think that there is any Mp out there who will vote to have the minimum acreage at 1 acre when thier constituents are poor people?

Please read the spirit and stop creating scenarios to scare people.

The maximum is what is scaring these people.

Led by the Kenya Land owners association, they will fight this land thing Now! Why?

Because the new constitution when passed will remove their 999 year leases to nothing.

If you are from Kericho, you know unilever has 999 yr leases from land grabbed from the kipsigis. Now on August 4th, that lease turns to 99 yrs. If they have already done 99 yrs, this land reverts to the people of Kenya.

That is the real concern from the absentee landlords with the land clause. Not minimum or maximum.
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Wendz
#53 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 2:38:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
@B. Timber


See this argument by @Surealligator on the thread "Should I vote Yes or No?" which seems to answer your query better than i would have.

"If we elect good men into the august house, they will fix the min and max land one can own. So far, the inclination is to cap the limit at 10,000 acres but no one will be forced to have sell to keep within the limits. What will happen is an economic factor. Those with over 10,000 acres will be taxed upwards of 30% the value of the land. So, owners of such land will be forced to be enterprising enough to make the 30% and more or sell the land to those who can achieve better. This will create employment for the masses as todays huge idle tracks of land will finally be put into use.

On the other hand, if the over 10,000 acre landowner feels he will make more money by subdividing the land, he will do so. This is expected to be the most likely scenario. At the end of the day, land will be far much affordable.

The other side of the xoin involves discouraging further subdivision of land below an acre in rural areas as teh more you split land, the more it becomes had to practice commercial farming or use of machinery in farming. Use of machinery in farming makes it cheaper to produce food.

Remember, the more you split land, the more you create access feeder roads which eat up farming land.

So, minimum land will not mean those who have little parcels will be taken away and given to those who have more. It will mean no more subdivision ones a piece of land get to the min but those who have less will keep them but be encouraged to merge with a neighboring piece."
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haiyaa
#54 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 3:05:50 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 99
Ngalaka wrote:
After realising that there can not be any meaningful dialugue with your good self.



That is gross and demeaning isn't it? Shame on you
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B.Timer
#55 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 4:08:41 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
@Wendz

On the maximum ceiling I didn’t express much apprehension.
If managed largely on the basis that he anticipates, then there shouldn’t be much ado about it.
That would however mean that the term MAXIMUM is otherwise qualified!!!

Having said that,
My fears for the upcountry folks remain unaddressed.

for the minimum capping, the only scenario that wouldn’t be adverse to them is one where the Minimum is (0) zero.
Now that would be cheeky to say the least!!!!

Of course if they subdivide their land beyond the fixed minimum, they won’t necessarily lose such land, but their ownership will be anything but legal.
Legally the ownership will remain as it was before the subdivision!
Assuming the registered owner before the subdivision is dead (a case of father bequeathing to his sons&daughters) there is no telling of the confusion that will follow.

BTW No county business here - as someomne suggested.
The law says parliament will pass a legislation to determine maximum and minimum acrearage…. Counties have no role on that.
Holding any property for which you don’t have any legal claim or ownership documents is most frustrating.
Seemingly this is going to be reality in Kenya thanks to the proposed constitution.
Dunia ni msongamano..
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  | | Edit by user: Friday, July 16, 2010 7:22 PM | Reason: Not specified
Ngalaka
#56 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 4:33:37 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
@haiya

I hate to appear rude leave alone being rude.

However, sometimes one gets nauseated by those who say things for the sake of saying things.

I like dealing with well thought out positions but going in round circle isnt my cup of tea.

If my words came out as offending, they are regreted to that extend.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Pablo
#57 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 5:01:38 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 567
Location: Nairobi
For those who are saying that this this is 90% good and 10% needs work. When issues emanating from it start flaring up and people dying or losing their 1/8 ac properties then it will not matter that 90% was good.

Whats the hurry cant this small stupid things such as minimum acreage be removed and then we put it in.

And why is is the US soo interested in having it passed. What do they know that we dont??smile

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Fundaah
#58 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 5:04:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
@ Haiyaa don't worry.....I have adquate shock absorbers....
We need to be accommodative ....

Freedom of expression ought to be universal.....difference of opinion doesnt make one a fool....
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Deer
#59 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 4:18:11 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 8
Pablo wrote:

And why is is the US soo interested in having it passed. What do they know that we dont??smile



I've been wondering the same thing moreso after Ranenberger went campaigning YES in Kitale d'oh!
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annsal
#60 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 5:20:09 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/18/2009
Posts: 316
Location: nairobi
@ fundah, wendz and rasilio , thanks for the civic education am learning alot from this forum. however what happens to upcountry folks who have no one to take them step by step on their issues ,,most of them believe they will start paying taxes on their land ,( most of them own around 5 acres ) dont you think lack of knowledge will cost the yes team mob votes.
God loves a Trier!
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