@Ngalaka, this is why I said that the more significant change we can make in Kenya is a leadership change - by more than 80%. The new leaders will hopefully be more sober minded and if we can do the constitution before they get their heads corrupted by power, Kenya can do a really nice constitution for all Kenyans, without any suspicion.

Some dude is implying am smoking something - hehehhe!! This is an open forum and we are all sharing opinions. If u wish to muzzle me, tukutane uwanjo, hapo huruma johnsaga....if u beat me, nitakupeleka kiamaich u eat ur fill of mbuzi, if I beat u, u apologize here!! hehehe! Woie..

Just wondering Masukuma, how long do you think 'a little more" should be? One day, two days, one year, 20 years? Be specific please.

Or is it until the clergy ( note I did not say christians) decide?

There is a law right now. It says, time to talk is up. It is time to go vote. Are you telling me that the clergy wants us to be criminals by breaking the law?

Let us be very honest with ourselves here.

You want no Kadhis court. Others want it. Others don't care.

That is why we have a referendum. A referendum is not a consensus document. It is used when people cannot agree. It is obvious Kenyans don't agree. Then let the referendum decide.

Let the People, not the clergy, not the Mp's, not you masukuma, not me.

Let Kenyans decide what they want. Stop threatening, scaring, spreading untruths and basically being obnoxious and instead go educate the masses.

The time to negotiate, bribe and even threaten Kenyans with hell in nigeria is up. Let the people vote. It is their turn to eat.

@masukuma

I understand that you really want to have this process stopped.

I also understand that you would like Kenyans to read this thing.

Those two things are not going to happen. So instead of fighting an emotional game, put on your politicians hat before it is too late.

The only way to change the laws of this country is not by making noise on TV or going on the streets. It is making 144 Mps to change the law....You do that you have your wish.

Going to Kibaki and Raila is a waste of time as the clergy found out.

This draft was in the newspapers free. Most of it is now being used to wrap chips. you know Kenyans don't read a book, what makes you think they will read 200 pages of lawyer speak?

It is politics Masukuma.

You have two arguments

1. Kadhis court,
2. Abortion

The politicians have 200 other arguments and they will beat you with them over and over again. Read my other post on the numbers.

You are so busy trying to convert people on wazua you forget to go to the numbers.

I have serious misgivings about a lot more issues than what you have. However, I am realistic and realise that for you to beat Raila and Kibaki together, you really need a miracle.

On one side you have the two people who got 100% of the votes the last time and beat Uhuru together like a child in 2002.

On the other side you have some clergy people I have never heard of and the one famous Arap Moi and Ruto. Some would argue the people who caused this mess anyway.

so instead of thinking that I am the enemy, get to work now and start getting the numbers because you have a very long 90 days coming.


Someone on this forum has stated time and again that he won't vote. He's making a lot more sense. I would suggest you watch labour day tommorow. Cotu and Raila are in Uhuru park. You can then judge for yourself exactly what mountain you have to climb.

The discussion is good. Isn't that what an online forum like wazua is for? Let each person present their argument here freely then everyone can vote as they please.

@masukuma I am glad that you see I am not for or against your arguments.

However, the clergy has set itself up for a serious loss in credibility. Whether Yes or No wins.

Constitution making is a popularity contest and an ugly political game. You are talking about people's lives here.

That is why Isaac Ruto wanted Njue to lead the No campaign. That is why you now see Moi courting the church again.

Ruto and Moi will use the clergy every step of the way. The clergy will forever be linked with Moi and that is very sad indeed.


Kalembe Ndile has started and songs against Moi reminiscent of 2002 have already started being sung.

Those are the facts Masukuma and I find it hard to believe that the church believes that people vote with a conscience.

The moment they started asking for tithe to beat the competition, they lost credibility for ages to come. Whether Yes or No wins.

They should have done as the sikhs did or what they did in 2002.

Expressed serious misgivings they had and even preached against it. But adviced people to vote their will.

Not coming up with a slogan and a logo ( red card).

What a pity.

@youcantstopeusnow,
hakuna kitu kama hiyo. The worst that can happen is asking for it to be limited to the 10 mile strip as was in the current draft.
@alma, The Kingdom of God has suffered violence!! Credibility of the Church is based on God's word and NOT POPULAR OPINION!! even if everyone on the planet decides to ditch it. IT REMAINS TRUE. Its not A DEMOCRACY!!! The Pew-warmers are not asked if the wish to downgrade fornication from sin to a nice thing to have. We have an authority we follow and the authority does not follow us.
YES may win and pews will be warmed the following Sunday!! the problem is not with the Clergy its with the PEW WARMERS! they have EARS but don't listen, they have EYES but don't SEE. they wish to have people who tickle their ears as clergy.

@famooz, why?

@aemathenge, Actually i have never stood at the pulpit in a long time. But i go to NPC woodley.

@famooz, I hope "why do i vote YES" topic maybe used to educate people on the good and bad of the draft constitution. I am open to engage on the articles on the Draft but not broad arguments such as the paper is 90% good. I wish we could do a clause by clause breakdown. i mean its only 262 articles

Good. Very good!