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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Dahatre wrote:Again I ask--On whose land were these pastrolists trespassing? http://www.nation.co.ke/...184418-brdlq1/index.html
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Dahatre wrote:Kusadikika wrote:People in Central Kenya took up arms to fight for independence because of being treated like this by the colonial government. The current Kenya government needs to find a better way of dealing with pastoralist communities. Listen to them and deal with them fairly because they are human beings. If that is too hard for hardliners like hardwood to swallow deal with them fairly because they have guns. Nobody wins in a war. Treating the Samburu like this is just wrong: http://www.businessdaily...5068-12gch3r/index.html
We will wake up one of these days and find ourselves recolonized..The colonizers aided by our government. Remember Boris Johnson jetting in here with 500M in drought aid? I bet that was money to enhance "security" to keep the wazungu occupying lapsset land from bolting, before the extraction of oil in Turkana and SS starts. @Dahatre at this rate, this is a possibility... Remember we were colonized before thanks to collaborators! It took so much deaths to reclaim our dignity... which we're now "reselling"...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Dahatre wrote:Again I ask--On whose land were these pastrolists trespassing? Land owners with title? If we are to be okay with these raids, we must be okay with raids in other areas as well. Should a Maasai guy drive his cows to Karen/Kitengela/Naivasha/Ongata Rongai/Ngong because it's ancestral land?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 1,049
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AlphDoti wrote:Dahatre wrote:Kusadikika wrote:People in Central Kenya took up arms to fight for independence because of being treated like this by the colonial government. The current Kenya government needs to find a better way of dealing with pastoralist communities. Listen to them and deal with them fairly because they are human beings. If that is too hard for hardliners like hardwood to swallow deal with them fairly because they have guns. Nobody wins in a war. Treating the Samburu like this is just wrong: http://www.businessdaily...5068-12gch3r/index.html
We will wake up one of these days and find ourselves recolonized..The colonizers aided by our government. Remember Boris Johnson jetting in here with 500M in drought aid? I bet that was money to enhance "security" to keep the wazungu occupying lapsset land from bolting, before the extraction of oil in Turkana and SS starts. @Dahatre at this rate, this is a possibility... Remember we were colonized before thanks to collaborators! It took so much deaths to reclaim our dignity... which we're now "reselling"... This reminds me of what one Imam was reported in the media earlier today admonishing RAO for traveling to US/UK to bad-mouth Kenya. Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Kusadikika wrote:quicksand wrote:Kusadikika wrote:Njung'e wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:[quote=sanity][quote=hardwood][quote=Kusadikika][quote=hardwood][quote=Kusadikika][quote=simonkabz]
Sorry, for now the govt cannot interfere with the pokots as they are looking for their votes. The mzungu's are too few for their votes to count while the kiuks in Laikipia are already mortgaged to the govt party so they will have to wait till after elections. You are right. Won't be surprised if they are hit mercilessly after the election, moreso if UMK gets back. The Pokot are not Mungiki. The Mungiki were kawaida people who in their later years decided to engage in Mungiki activities. A Pokot in the plains of Baringo or Laikipia does not know any other way of life. The life of herding his cattle, taking it where there is pasture and water and protecting what he has by any means necessary and raiding neighboring communities to get more is HIS LIFE. That is how they know how live, that is how they live. If anybody in government makes any decision to deal with the problem, this is what they must deal with. A people's way of life. In my opinion the most effective way to deal with this would be construct water pans and drill bore holes all over the Pokot territory in West Pokot, Baringo and Laikipia. Taking up arms or engaging KDF would be a grave mistake that would only kick the can down the road. Water pans and boreholes won't regrow pastures burned off by drought. An idealist is one who when his ideas about life collide with reality insists it is reality which must change. A hundred years ago just about everybody in Africa used to run around half naked in leather sarongs, circumcising girls, burning off forests and savannas to cultivate, spearing lions as a rite of passage...among other things. Can't do that anymore. Hey presto! It is the 21st century. It arrived for everyone, including the Pokot, and we all have to hustle along with it. I don't know where you get the idea that these pastoralists are justified to take up arms and mow down the rest of the Kenyans. Since we are all nice modern 21st Century people and we have a capable and modern army with equipment why don't we just kill all of them and get rid of them once and for all? The Pokot do not have newspapers, TV, Radio and internet to cry out to the rest of the world the atrocities that have been committed against their way of life so the only one sided story we have is that they are savages who are mowing down the rest of Kenyans. Drought comes and goes. Water pans and boreholes will mitigate the effects of future droughts not solve the problems of the current drought. 21st century or not my point is that no indigenous Kenyan is more Kenyan than another and for far too long sedentary Kenyans have had nothing but contempt for the pastoralist Kenyans only because they can sit down at their desks and draw up maps and then trick whole populations out of their land. I cannot with any conscience be on the side of Kuki Gallman against the Pokot. Sorry. The government must deal with the Pokot as people and not a nuisance.  You have opted to side with the uncomfortable truth rather than the convenient lie. My respects. Right is right even when nobody is doing it. Wrong is wrong even when everybody is doing it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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FRM2011 wrote:Kusadikika wrote:quicksand wrote:Kusadikika wrote:Njung'e wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:[quote=sanity][quote=hardwood][quote=Kusadikika][quote=hardwood][quote=Kusadikika][quote=simonkabz]
Sorry, for now the govt cannot interfere with the pokots as they are looking for their votes. The mzungu's are too few for their votes to count while the kiuks in Laikipia are already mortgaged to the govt party so they will have to wait till after elections. You are right. Won't be surprised if they are hit mercilessly after the election, moreso if UMK gets back. The Pokot are not Mungiki. The Mungiki were kawaida people who in their later years decided to engage in Mungiki activities. A Pokot in the plains of Baringo or Laikipia does not know any other way of life. The life of herding his cattle, taking it where there is pasture and water and protecting what he has by any means necessary and raiding neighboring communities to get more is HIS LIFE. That is how they know how live, that is how they live. If anybody in government makes any decision to deal with the problem, this is what they must deal with. A people's way of life. In my opinion the most effective way to deal with this would be construct water pans and drill bore holes all over the Pokot territory in West Pokot, Baringo and Laikipia. Taking up arms or engaging KDF would be a grave mistake that would only kick the can down the road. Water pans and boreholes won't regrow pastures burned off by drought. An idealist is one who when his ideas about life collide with reality insists it is reality which must change. A hundred years ago just about everybody in Africa used to run around half naked in leather sarongs, circumcising girls, burning off forests and savannas to cultivate, spearing lions as a rite of passage...among other things. Can't do that anymore. Hey presto! It is the 21st century. It arrived for everyone, including the Pokot, and we all have to hustle along with it. I don't know where you get the idea that these pastoralists are justified to take up arms and mow down the rest of the Kenyans. Since we are all nice modern 21st Century people and we have a capable and modern army with equipment why don't we just kill all of them and get rid of them once and for all? The Pokot do not have newspapers, TV, Radio and internet to cry out to the rest of the world the atrocities that have been committed against their way of life so the only one sided story we have is that they are savages who are mowing down the rest of Kenyans. Drought comes and goes. Water pans and boreholes will mitigate the effects of future droughts not solve the problems of the current drought. 21st century or not my point is that no indigenous Kenyan is more Kenyan than another and for far too long sedentary Kenyans have had nothing but contempt for the pastoralist Kenyans only because they can sit down at their desks and draw up maps and then trick whole populations out of their land. I cannot with any conscience be on the side of Kuki Gallman against the Pokot. Sorry. The government must deal with the Pokot as people and not a nuisance. You have opted to side with the uncomfortable truth rather than the convenient lie. My respects. Right is right even when nobody is doing it. Wrong is wrong even when everybody is doing it. Conversely, we must not treat pastoralists as if they are more special than the rest of the groups interested in land. Do we really want to have 2 sets of laws? Bear in mind that before the British came our ethnic borders weren't static. The Kiambu(or Kabete) settlement by Kikuyus is very recent. A good number of them have happened after the Brits occupation! For pastoralists it's likely they're still living like in those days of flexible borders
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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Lolest! wrote:Dahatre wrote:Again I ask--On whose land were these pastrolists trespassing? Land owners with title? If we are to be okay with these raids, we must be okay with raids in other areas as well. Should a Maasai guy drive his cows to Karen/Kitengela/Naivasha/Ongata Rongai/Ngong because it's ancestral land? touché! The point I was trying to make with that rhetorical question is that the defense of property is occurring only for the "conservationists" and maybe a handful of Kenyans who own large tracts of land. The defense budget is provided by the Brits through British military training in Laikipia and the infusion of cash such as the one Boris Johnson brought earlier this year The small land holders are not being protected. Small landowners include Kenyans such as Mr. Wahome who owns 300 acres of land So from where I sit, I see Kenyans depriving other Kenyans of a livelihood (pastrolists and small land owners) on behalf of our former colonizers.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Dahatre wrote:Lolest! wrote:Dahatre wrote:Again I ask--On whose land were these pastrolists trespassing? Land owners with title? If we are to be okay with these raids, we must be okay with raids in other areas as well. Should a Maasai guy drive his cows to Karen/Kitengela/Naivasha/Ongata Rongai/Ngong because it's ancestral land? touché! The point I was trying to make with that rhetorical question is that the defense of property is occurring only for the "conservationists" and maybe a handful of Kenyans who own large tracts of land. The defense budget is provided by the Brits through British military training in Laikipia and the infusion of cash such as the one Boris Johnson brought earlier this year The small land holders are not being protected. Small landowners include Kenyans such as Mr. Wahome who owns 300 acres of land So from where I sit, I see Kenyans depriving other Kenyans of a livelihood (pastrolists and small land owners) on behalf of our former colonizers. Pastoralists are not being denied land today. It happened kitambo the same time Maasai families lost parts of Nairobi, Naivasha, Nakuru If, in principle, we say mzungu arudi kwao in Laikipia then the rest of you fellows owning land whose title has been somehow passed down from the white settlers need to similarly vacate!! Kila mtu arudi kwao as Raila said! And kwao in this case is where your ancestors used to live before the British shook up our pre-colonial ethnic borders! When do we start?
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