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Sanctions unlikely- The tide is turning
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Much Know
#51 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:50:41 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,588
One of the principles of international law is that a treaty does not create either obligations or rights for third states (pacta tertiis nec nocent nec prosunt) without their consent, and this is also enshrined in the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties

Let me warn you early on not to prove your very poor judgement farther with such statements as
B.Timer wrote:

i get a feeling that your views are informed of intuition and as such, I am unable to engage with you!
Quote something!
Ras Kienyeji Man
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Much Know
#52 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:57:48 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,588
I mean rao the other day was talking of having the cases brought back, so was mdvd, what was the basis? It was here on wazua http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=22264
and all over the press, then you go further and say a President of Kenya will be working from ICC? Is it only Raila who can bring this guys back when you see things through cord lenses?
Ras Kienyeji Man
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  | | Edit by user: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:04 AM | Reason: Not specified
Lolest!
#53 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:49:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
McReggae wrote:


CORD is killing itself yet you are using the IG and Kibunja to muzzle the discussion on land!!!

The transaparently hired IG is on Jubilee payroll?Pray
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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B.Timer
#54 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:03:42 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

The ICC liberally uses words like order when addressing its subjects!


http://elections.nation..../-/lh7qcjz/-/index.html


Quote:
"Given that these issues impact directly on the accused, the Chamber considers this to be a hearing requiring the accused's attendance and the accused are ordered to attend the status conference in person or via video link, said Judges Kuniko Ozaki (Presiding), Christine Van de Wyngaert and Chile Eboe-Osuji.
Dunia ni msongamano..
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Lolest!
#55 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:08:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Shotgun wrote:


I reckon the issue of how they run the government from the Hague now becomes valid.

Does the Kenyan Constitution/any other Kenyan Law even contemplate such a situation?
What does the law of impeachment provide?

IMO, such a situation will be handled politically. The party with the majority in both Houses will decide whether the two will govern us from the Hague or not.

Yes, Article 145 provides for impeachment of the president. And yes, it is a political pocess.

Two thirds of support from both the National Assembly and the senate is all you need!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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KulaRaha
#56 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:09:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
B.Timer wrote:

The ICC liberally uses words like order when addressing its subjects!


http://elections.nation..../-/lh7qcjz/-/index.html


Quote:
"Given that these issues impact directly on the accused, the Chamber considers this to be a hearing requiring the accused's attendance and the accused are ordered to attend the status conference in person or via video link, said Judges Kuniko Ozaki (Presiding), Christine Van de Wyngaert and Chile Eboe-Osuji.


But it is an order from a court...no one is above the law...
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Much Know
#57 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 3:24:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,588
Germany adds their voice to the chorus of covert tributes to Jubilee team telling "us" to turn out in large numbers.

http://www.youtube.com/w...bedded&v=dn7FHr-6Otk
Ras Kienyeji Man
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Obi 1 Kanobi
#58 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:44:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
The British High Commisioner has just rained on the Jubilation parade.

C'mon Psycho's lets return to our eastwards route. China and India here we come.

UK/EU and US is the past.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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  | | Edit by user: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:45 PM | Reason: Not specified
McReggae
#59 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:46:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
The British High Commisioner has just rained on the Jubilation parade.

C'mon Psycho's lets return to our eastwards route. China and India here we come.

UK/EU and US is the past.


It's back to reality.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Buster
#60 Posted : Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:29:04 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/17/2007
Posts: 1,345
Shotgun wrote:
B.Timer wrote:
Shotgun wrote:
Someone please educate me:

Supposing in a free and fair and democratic elections the citizens of Kenya elect UhuRuto who in turn promise to fully cooperate with the ICC process and then apply to the same court for flexible schedules to attend court due to their new roles.

Will we still be subject to sanctions?
If yes,
Who exactly will be issuing those sanctions?
For what reasons will they be issuing the sanctions?


In such a situation, there would be no sanctions.

But then you have to quit Utopia pronto, for that is not practical!

Once you appear before a Court you are subject to the schedule of the Court and not your Business/Political/family, etc conveniences.

The Court can even find that you dont deserve bail and have you put under confinement.





Thanks B.Timer.

FYI, mine was not utopia but conjecture. For the sake of the points you raise... Supposing the court doesn't even give them a favourable schedule, but they win fairly and cooperate fully.

Will we still see sanctions?

I reckon the issue of how they run the government from the Hague now becomes valid.

Does the Kenyan Constitution/any other Kenyan Law even contemplate such a situation?
What does the law of impeachment provide?

IMO, such a situation will be handled politically. The party with the majority in both Houses will decide whether the two will govern us from the Hague or not.



It seems like you are looking for a way for Uhuruto to have their cake and eat it. Pole can't happen won't happen. It is this simple..... Hague tells them to jump. They jump-No sanctions. They don't jump-Sanctions. Capisce???
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