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Politics of Cruelty
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/9/2009 Posts: 1,262
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@obi 1 kanobi well said
I dont believe a wazuan cannot smell propaganda from a mile away.
On one hand RAO is blamed for ICC, conviniently forgetting 'Dont be vague go to hague' ama its the 'mashetani' sent by RAO that made them say that.
On one hand they say RAO will hand some people to ICC yet the 2 have promised to corperate, so unless they are not planning to, why fear?
We had PEV 1992, 1997 so RAO was to blame?
What did Mt kenya do to RAO to warrant his 'wrath'? If he hated them would he say Kibaki tosha?
If he hated them would he accept his son to marry from the community? [RAO junior]
Going back in history, didnt RAO's father decline presidency unless Kenyatta was released? How do you explain that?
This is 2013 surely what is the worst that RAO's presidency can do? Do you really imagine he will order the military to shoot some people on sight?
As Obi puts it, this is a well orcastrated propaganda by some people to lock power, and i am surprised some people here are taking it without questioning.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Goodpeople, just accept it we are all politicians. Most of us if not all of us. We take sides and whoever we like/is with us is good, whoever is against us is evil. So let no one fool you that is is a Kikuyu thing only. Wasn't loyal Mudavadi a good boy before he grew horns and became an ingrate who was helped by Raila from political oblivion? Wasn't Kalonzo a spineless water melon before he became a cord principal? I remember in 2002 some Kibaki supporter friend of mine arguing that Raila was different from the rest of his community. I wont go into details coz some people here will derail it and make it a Kibunjia matter but this guy changed later when political scenarios shifted. And wazua is no different.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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McReggae wrote:@Liv,
What a contradiction: You now embrace Ruto, if it was done for RAO, why didn't his core support of the Luo do the worst???? @McReggae,
I have said before why I support the Uhuruto coalition.... I take it as God answering our prayers.... whether they win or they don't. Why?.... if we can have Kalenjin and Gema voting on one side rather than being in opposite camps starting now... for the next 3 elections, trust between the 2 communities will be rebuilt and the result is zero violence. If there is peace in RV, Kenya will mostly be at peace.
So If Ruto is working towards this (reconciliation in RV)...which I have no reason to believe he is not.... I guess all of us should support him. If Raila had done the same and tried to bring Kikuyu and Luos together this would have helped and healed the suspicion I guess..... his father and Jomo differed ideologically...this and mistreatment of Jaramogi should not forever be the point of enmity between the 2 communities (Foundation of Railaphobia)
My other belief is that when nations / communities go to war or fight each other....for them to have PEACE afterwards, they must be ready to sacrifice JUSTICE. This is what has happened in the world over. If you insist on JUSTICE (read ICC for us), Kenya will never heal. The world knows this. This is also the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. Instead of " a tooth or a tooth and an eye for an eye" he taught the peace is only possible when we love our enemies forgive them and leave revenge to God. Where the world has practiced His teachings, peace has been achieved. (look at IRA in UK, Civil war in USA, end of Apatheid in SA, end of colonization in our country & others, etc - PEACE was achieved at the expense of JUSTICE). Where people insist JUSTICE ...like in the middle East (a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye... getting PEACE is a long short.
Does RAO represent PEACE or JUSTICE to Gema people?
Sorry for the long answer.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:
You compare that with the systematic attacks and killings in RV.....simply put it's so ironical for central people to endorse Ruto and castigata Raile the way they especially regarding PEV!!!!
You are right it was much worse in RV.... but in 2007/8 it was all done for RAO....in his name and on his behalf. You remember..."No Raila No Peace"
I was trying to explain why railaphobia is a reality and how it has increased.
Common ordinary Gema people don't want to be given things by government. They want assurance that they will be allowed to work, trade anywhere and their hard earned properties will be protected by government and not be taken from them by force. I guess they fear a Raila government may not be able to provide this assurance and enforce security. You are so full of yourself. when you say common Gema people don't want to be given things by government" what do you mean. Do the other kenyans expect or ask for freebies. Fact is the people of Central stand to benefit most directly from government mostly by virtue of their location but (for their elite) also due to their liberal attitude towards things like corruption, open theft through dodgy contracts, grabbing public land etc. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/8/2009 Posts: 975 Location: Nairobi
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xyzee wrote:@obi 1 kanobi well said
I dont believe a wazuan cannot smell propaganda from a mile away.
On one hand RAO is blamed for ICC, conviniently forgetting 'Dont be vague go to hague' ama its the 'mashetani' sent by RAO that made them say that.
On one hand they say RAO will hand some people to ICC yet the 2 have promised to corperate, so unless they are not planning to, why fear?
We had PEV 1992, 1997 so RAO was to blame?
What did Mt kenya do to RAO to warrant his 'wrath'? If he hated them would he say Kibaki tosha?
Raila's interest coincided with Nak's thats the sole reason he said tosha. It was not for the love of kikuyu, ni siasa tu.
If he hated them would he accept his son to marry from the community? [RAO junior]
Are you suggesting that Raila decides who his sons will marry or daughters get married to? Try another one!
Going back in history, didnt RAO's father decline presidency unless Kenyatta was released? How do you explain that?
one word politics!
This is 2013 surely what is the worst that RAO's presidency can do? Do you really imagine he will order the military to shoot some people on sight?
With the new constitution there is not much Raila will do to anyone especially not GEMA. The time for such is long gone! Really let those who think that he does not deserve the presidency stop making Raila seem like the devil incarnate. He may not be the best but he is not evil either atleast not to the extend that some people make him seem to be. Personally my reservation on Raila are that he will be a populist leader.
As Obi puts it, this is a well orcastrated propaganda by some people to lock power, and i am surprised some people here are taking it without questioning. PS I am not into politicians and i trust none of them. You will know that you have arrived when money and time are not mutually exclusive "events" in you life!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Common ordinary Gema people don't want to be given things by government. They want assurance that they will be allowed to work, trade anywhere and their hard earned properties will be protected by government and not be taken from them by force. I guess they fear a Raila government may not be able to provide this assurance and enforce security.[/color]
You are so full of yourself. when you say common Gema people don't want to be given things by government" what do you mean. Do the other kenyans expect or ask for freebies. Fact is the people of Central stand to benefit most directly from government mostly by virtue of their location but (for their elite) also due to their liberal attitude towards things like corruption, open theft through dodgy contracts, grabbing public land etc.
[/quote] @Obi, Please read the whole paragraph of what I have written to understand what I mean. Please try to be less emotional to understand what I mean... political elites and grabbers are in all tribes. I am talking about the common wananchi here
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Lolest! wrote:Ngalaka wrote:
This is nothing but the naked truth!
Everyone else somehow doesn't fit the bill!!!
I guess the qualification is being mountainous, and not just any side of the Mt, the the West side!!
Since you became Corded, you have become very predictable! There is a difference between RAO and SKM. BTW, Show me a political constituency that doesn't attack the opponents-just one! But the GEMAists attacks and fear of Raila is greater than kawaida. At least with you I can debate! Having said that, please note I do not quite understand what you are saying. At no time did I say that Raila is the sweetest thing ever, but one thing is certain - HE WILL BE ELECTED THE 4TH PRESIDENT of Kenya - largely, so as to keep Uhuru and Co at bay! My issue is very clear It is becoming as clear as day is from night that the Mountains wont support others. Whenever any other Candidate is floated they come up with all manner of excuses as to why that Candidate doesnt measure up! Only a fellow Mountaineer is good to them! Now prove me wrong on that. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:@Liv,
What a contradiction: You now embrace Ruto, if it was done for RAO, why didn't his core support of the Luo do the worst???? @McReggae,
I have said before why I support the Uhuruto coalition.... I take it as God answering our prayers.... whether they win or they don't. Why?.... if we can have Kalenjin and Gema voting on one side rather than being in opposite camps starting now... for the next 3 elections, trust between the 2 communities will be rebuilt and the result is zero violence. If there is peace in RV, Kenya will mostly be at peace.
So If Ruto is working towards this (reconciliation in RV)...which I have no reason to believe he is not.... I guess all of us should support him. If Raila had done the same and tried to bring Kikuyu and Luos together this would have helped and healed the suspicion I guess..... his father and Jomo differed ideologically...this and mistreatment of Jaramogi should not forever be the point of enmity between the 2 communities (Foundation of Railaphobia)
My other belief is that when nations / communities go to war or fight each other....for them to have PEACE afterwards, they must be ready to sacrifice JUSTICE. This is what has happened in the world over. If you insist on JUSTICE (read ICC for us), Kenya will never heal. The world knows this. This is also the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. Instead of " a tooth or a tooth and an eye for an eye" he taught the peace is only possible when we love our enemies forgive them and leave revenge to God. Where the world has practiced His teachings, peace has been achieved. (look at IRA in UK, Civil war in USA, end of Apatheid in SA, end of colonization in our country & others, etc - PEACE was achieved at the expense of JUSTICE). Where people insist JUSTICE ...like in the middle East (a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye... getting PEACE is a long short.
Does RAO represent PEACE or JUSTICE to Gema people?
Sorry for the long answer. He tried doing the reconciliation and even mobilised the entire Luo community to MK's side in 2002. But after the election and MK's victory, he was shafted, the MOU they had signed trashed and then they ran him out of town accusing him of being power hungry. We have long memories my friend. The middle finger awaits Ruto and his kalenjin brigade in th eunlikely event of a Jubilee victory. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Liv wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Common ordinary Gema people don't want to be given things by government. They want assurance that they will be allowed to work, trade anywhere and their hard earned properties will be protected by government and not be taken from them by force. I guess they fear a Raila government may not be able to provide this assurance and enforce security.[/color]
You are so full of yourself. when you say common Gema people don't want to be given things by government" what do you mean. Do the other kenyans expect or ask for freebies. Fact is the people of Central stand to benefit most directly from government mostly by virtue of their location but (for their elite) also due to their liberal attitude towards things like corruption, open theft through dodgy contracts, grabbing public land etc.
@Obi, Please read the whole paragraph of what I have written to understand what I mean. Please try to be less emotional to understand what I mean... political elites and grabbers are in all tribes. I am talking about the common wananchi here[/quote] Yes I have read the whole paragraph and your repeated assertion here. According to you, Gema common people don't want anything from the government, unlike the other kenyans who want free things. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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nostoppingthis wrote:Lolest! wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:There is nothing like RAILAPHOBIA in GEMA. its all a well ochestrated attack on any other kenyan with a good chance to win the presidency.
There is RAILAPHOBIA, PERIOD. The stuff people say about him is just too off to be ordinary reasoning. I dont hear anybody attacking the rest the way they do with Raila.
I used to think it existed, then I saw recently the way they swatted off Kalonzo, managed to put Ruto in a corner and when MaDVD came to the fore, he has been dealt with cruelly.
So what has this got to do with Railaphobia?
Take RAO from the equation and replace him with any other kenyan outside central and he will get the same treatment of hatred, choreographed attacks on their character etc.
Of course, but not with similar negative energy. There wont be Kalonzophobia or Musalophobia.
This is purely because some people would prefer to maintain the status quo.... @Lolest, RAO is their biggest stumbling block to maintain the status quo...once they lock out RAO from the presidency, they can now continue with the status quo for another so many years...Remember that at one point, Kenya and Malaysia were at the same point economically, only for Malaysia to take up the Kenya blueprint and implement it with great success.... Once RAO is out of the picture, there is no one else who will match UMK and WSR in terms of mobilization (and that is assuming that WSR will not be shown the middle finger, once UMK gets to power...We have seen UMK do this with the likes of Tuju, Eugene, Kalonzo, Mudavadi)....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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Lolest! wrote:Much Know wrote:Railaphobia is real and necessary, is Moi from Gema? What of former pentagon? the 150mps at Jubilee presidential nominations, Tuju? Mungatana? His brother manispaa? I suffer from Railaphobia and as a patient not of gema i can tell you it is real, has nothing to do with tribe and the only potent medicine available is uhuruto. why is it necessary? Fear is a natural key coping mechanism. In investment 'fear vs greed' in evolution 'fight or flee' response to fear for survical(basically why you run from or kill a snake rather than try to confirm whether it is poisonous). Fear does serve a purpose, in this case rather ask the question 'is railaphobia real but not necessary?'. It is necessary for the 'average voters' who do not have an objective perspective (unlike former pentagon members) to use the fear factor that is available to them due to his association with many violent national incidents and 'reforms' (threats to take and redistribute personal assets particularly from a certain community )to make a judgement. Railaphobia will be the pivot that will serve best to win the 'average voter', and it will work wonders in due course. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
He tried doing the reconciliation and even mobilised the entire Luo community to MK's side in 2002. But after the election and MK's victory, he was shafted, the MOU they had signed trashed and then they ran him out of town accusing him of being power hungry. We have long memories my friend.
The middle finger awaits Ruto and his kalenjin brigade in th eunlikely event of a Jubilee victory.
@Obi, Read the whole paragraph to understand what I mean.... the war between the 2 families (Jaramogi and Kenyatta) has resulted in mistrust between Gema and Luo for almost 50 years now.
RAO's support for MK in 2002 was just a revolt against Moi. He did not want his perceived arch enemy (Kenyatta family) in power again. His support for MK was to divide the Gema vote.... I guess it was not for peace of Kenya...but to teach Kenyatta family a lesson... and personal gain only.
If RAO really wanted to to reconcile the 2 communities, he could have either supported Uhuru in 2002.... or better support Kibaki fully for his 2 terms (you remember when he was referred to as Njamba in Nyeri in 2003?.... he should have build on that... instead of attacking and taking on a President who was weak and sick.... portraying himself as self centered and power hungry. Today RAO would be the President in waiting right now.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Last week, @al-ustaadh started a topic 'Kikuyu vs Kenya'. Wazuans chased him away and accused him of being a tribalist. I think he needs your apologies. You chased him away for saying what you are saying now in so many words. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:McReggae wrote:
You compare that with the systematic attacks and killings in RV.....simply put it's so ironical for central people to endorse Ruto and castigata Raile the way they especially regarding PEV!!!!
You are right it was much worse in RV.... but in 2007/8 it was all done for RAO....in his name and on his behalf. You remember..."No Raila No Peace"
I was trying to explain why railaphobia is a reality and how it has increased.
Common ordinary Gema people don't want to be given things by government. They want assurance that they will be allowed to work, trade anywhere and their hard earned properties will be protected by government and not be taken from them by force. I guess they fear a Raila government may not be able to provide this assurance and enforce security. Moot!!!! If i remember well.. one Martha Karua and other govt officials were categorical that the PEV's were preplanned.. and elections were just an excuse to start the genocide. i dont like RAO cos of his socialistic/communist tendencies.. unga for the poor.. etc etc..
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
According to you, Gema common people don't want anything from the government, unlike the other kenyans who want free things.
I was trying to explain the railaphobia thing and you misinterpreted what I was saying to justfify your emotions and outbursts.
I meant the common gema wananchi are psyched to do their own farming, business, etc and do not expect anything from government. They are different from the big shots in government who wants to grab contracts, land, favours, etc. They are interested in peace, security and assurance that what they have earned will not be taken away from them unfairly....like it happened in 2008 when some lost properties.
At no point did I refer to other Kenyas who want free things (highlighted above). This is your own making and thinking.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,571
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@ngalaka Jommo Kenyatta said Moi tosha! was it tribal? 20years later Raila said Moi tosha! where were the gema then? In 2002 he said Kibaki tosha (never mind he had signed a secret self serving MOU). It is not about tribe except for the cords(kabila mbili). Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
He tried doing the reconciliation and even mobilised the entire Luo community to MK's side in 2002. But after the election and MK's victory, he was shafted, the MOU they had signed trashed and then they ran him out of town accusing him of being power hungry. We have long memories my friend.
The middle finger awaits Ruto and his kalenjin brigade in th eunlikely event of a Jubilee victory.
[color=blue]@Obi, Read the whole paragraph to understand what I mean.... the war between the 2 families (Jaramogi and Kenyatta) has resulted in mistrust between Gema and Luo for almost 50 years now. RAO's support for MK in 2002 was just a revolt against Moi. He did not want his perceived arch enemy (Kenyatta family) in power again. His support for MK was to divide the Gema vote.... I guess it was not for peace of Kenya...but to teach Kenyatta family a lesson... and personal gain only. If RAO really wanted to to reconcile the 2 communities, he could have either supported Uhuru in 2002.... or better support Kibaki fully for his 2 terms (you remember when he was referred to as Njamba in Nyeri in 2003?.... he should have build on that... instead of attacking and taking on a President who was weak and sick.... portraying himself as self centered and power hungry. Today RAO would be the President in waiting right now.[/ color] Eeeh the fallout started over the constitution.. before which some gentlemen agreements had been trashed and Kiraitu, under the late Kijana Wamalwas efforts at reconciliation had confessed to have been sent to cut down RAO to size.. once and ffor all. Wamalwa peeping heaven tried to be Koffi Annan people opened up.. the terms Railaphobia n mania. were coined... there are no family feuds here.. just courtiers who use the offfice of the sickly oldmen(mzee n now Baks) to maintain wealth streams..sadly the average voter is a good pawn...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:@ngalaka Jommo Kenyatta said Moi tosha! was it tribal? 20years later Raila said Moi tosha! where were the gema then? In 2002 he said Kibaki tosha (never mind he had signed a secret self serving MOU). It is not about tribe except for the cords(kabila mbili). moot point again.. Mzees prefered choice was his personal doc. who sadly fellout over very private matters.. at 80 mzee had had all the nyamachoma he needed. choirs and land to last 5generations... he didnt care or senile enough to know what is.. infact some of his statements to clarify his strength were proving the great statesman was losing it..(rem the 'uliza mama...' comment?') Kihika Kimani n Njenga Karume had a plan... so did Njonjo
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Liv wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
According to you, Gema common people don't want anything from the government, unlike the other kenyans who want free things.
I was trying to explain the railaphobia thing and you misinterpreted what I was saying to justfify your emotions and outbursts.
I meant the common gema wananchi are psyched to do their own farming, business, etc and do not expect anything from government. They are different from the big shots in government who wants to grab contracts, land, favours, etc. They are interested in peace, security and assurance that what they have earned will not be taken away from them unfairly....like it happened in 2008 when some lost properties.
At no point did I refer to other Kenyas who want free things (highlighted above). This is your own making and thinking. @Liv, you keep referring to emotions. Nobody is emotional, we are just chatting. As to what you said or meant. You don't need to actually say the words for me to interpret their meanings. You say Gema folk want a government that will protect their property. So my question to you is this, based on Kenya's past history, there have been 3 governments, which one did not protect the Gema peoples properties. And why did this government not uphold its constitutional duty to protect its citizens properties. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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