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Hardtalk: state funerals
patcho
#51 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:26:44 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 5/29/2011
Posts: 47
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
fantony wrote:
B.Timer wrote:
I am a firm believer that Uhuru was granted by the Brits - no such thing as winning it through armed struggle.

If anything, the Mau mau business actually served to delay uhuru.



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while it strikes at the core of the collective narrative we have been told...@B.Timer is right!


Well its true Brits finally gave us Uhuru ..true ..it was given.However,the fact still remains that we fought hard for it..blood was shed for our land...its too sad that this history was/is not taught well in our schools.neither was it recorded well enough...Our weapons and strategies may not have been as sophisticated as the british..but my friend we fought and blood was shed...lots of it..many poor,innocent kenyans died in concentration camps in tana river and the likes...My father was a little boy those days and whenever he tells the stories during the fight for independence ,his eyes are filled with tears.They died so you can be free...and now you claim that Uhuru was given on a silver plate....damn you for even suggesting that.If you cant understand that then you have no business calling yourself a Kenyan.
masukuma
#52 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 11:38:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
patcho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
fantony wrote:
B.Timer wrote:
I am a firm believer that Uhuru was granted by the Brits - no such thing as winning it through armed struggle.

If anything, the Mau mau business actually served to delay uhuru.



YOU MONKEY!!!!Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you


while it strikes at the core of the collective narrative we have been told...@B.Timer is right!


Well its true Brits finally gave us Uhuru ..true ..it was given.However,the fact still remains that we fought hard for it..blood was shed for our land...its too sad that this history was/is not taught well in our schools.neither was it recorded well enough...Our weapons and strategies may not have been as sophisticated as the british..but my friend we fought and blood was shed...lots of it..many poor,innocent kenyans died in concentration camps in tana river and the likes...My father was a little boy those days and whenever he tells the stories during the fight for independence ,his eyes are filled with tears.They died so you can be free...and now you claim that Uhuru was given on a silver plate....damn you for even suggesting that.If you cant understand that then you have no business calling yourself a Kenyan.

we understand that blood was shed and a resistance put up. but the resistance was quashed and it was not fruitful. and thus the statement..."tulipigania uhuru" is correct but incomplete. "tulipigania uhuru, tukashindwa baadaye wakatupatia uhuru" is now correct and complete.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
pariah
#53 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:30:10 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/24/2011
Posts: 833
uhuru was fought for but als running colonies was not a very profitable venture anymore, there was tremendous pressure at home (UK) by the liberals to let the colonies govern themselves... so both of you are right to an extent, taking one side is missing the point
B.Timer
#54 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:02:57 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
pariah wrote:
uhuru was fought for but als running colonies was not a very profitable venture anymore, there was tremendous pressure at home (UK) by the liberals to let the colonies govern themselves... so both of you are right to an extent, taking one side is missing the point


More to the point!

Just like Slavery and slave trade was frowned upon in the west earlier, and abolished by the same west, colonisation was the next evil that the west had chosen to rid themselves of.

Suppose we didnt engage in armed struggle (Mau mau-ism), would we have gotten independence?

I think so, in fact it would probably have come earlier than it eventualy did.

Mau mau struggle was not necessary, period.

All we needed to do was engage the British in an organised civil campaign devoid of barbarism.


There was no Mau mau equivalent in TZ nor UG but they got their uhuru before us.

Dunia ni msongamano..
masukuma
#55 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:14:13 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
sudan - 1955
tunisia - 1956
morocco - 1956
ghana - 1956
guinea - 1958
cameroon - 1960
togo - 1960
mali - 1960
madagascar- 1960
DR congo - 1960
Somalia - 1960
benin - 1960
niger - 1960
bukina faso - 1960
ivory coast - 1960
chad - 1960
central africa republic - 1960
congo brazzaville - 1960
Nigeria - 1960
Sierra leone - 1961
Tanzania - 1961
Rwanda - 1962
burundi -1962
Algeria -1962
Uganda - 1962
Kenya -1963
Malawi - 1963
Zambia - 1964
I ASK AGAIN - Uhuru tulipigania ama tulipewa?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lolest!
#56 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:32:48 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Was Kenya going the way of Ug and Tz or was it going the way of Zimbabwe where settlers declared independence in 1965? I find similarities with Zim than with our EA neighbours. Both settler grps were vichwa ngumu. Mau mau did not win the war just like the 80s and 90s second liberation failure to remove Moi.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
pariah
#57 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:39:49 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/24/2011
Posts: 833
masukuma wrote:
sudan - 1955
tunisia - 1956
morocco - 1956
ghana - 1956
guinea - 1958
cameroon - 1960
togo - 1960
mali - 1960
madagascar- 1960
DR congo - 1960
Somalia - 1960
benin - 1960
niger - 1960
bukina faso - 1960
ivory coast - 1960
chad - 1960
central africa republic - 1960
congo brazzaville - 1960
Nigeria - 1960
Sierra leone - 1961
Tanzania - 1961
Rwanda - 1962
burundi -1962
Algeria -1962
Uganda - 1962
Kenya -1963
Malawi - 1963
Zambia - 1964
I ASK AGAIN - Uhuru tulipigania ama tulipewa?





what about South Africa and Zimbabwe?
B.Timer
#58 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 2:08:37 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
For effective effort deployment one needs to analyse their situation correctly then direct their energies towards a path that brings the desired results - in the most cost effective way.

Our situation was that we were directly under the Queen in England, as represented here by the Governor.

It is the Queen's hand that we wanted off our back.

Hence the person to negotiate/fight - (in Mau mau case) with, was the Queen or her appointed representative.

Opting to engage in armed conflict with the Queen's Govt was a huge mistake given their warfare might.


If we had negotiated with UK and convinced them that we needed and were ready to run our affairs (as patronising as it sounds), and they agreed and pulled out, then some nondiscript settlers attempted to ride rough shod on us, you can be sure they wouldnt have got anywhere without the support of the UK govt.

Dunia ni msongamano..
masukuma
#59 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 2:29:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
pariah wrote:
masukuma wrote:
sudan - 1955
tunisia - 1956
morocco - 1956
ghana - 1956
guinea - 1958
cameroon - 1960
togo - 1960
mali - 1960
madagascar- 1960
DR congo - 1960
Somalia - 1960
benin - 1960
niger - 1960
bukina faso - 1960
ivory coast - 1960
chad - 1960
central africa republic - 1960
congo brazzaville - 1960
Nigeria - 1960
Sierra leone - 1961
Tanzania - 1961
Rwanda - 1962
burundi -1962
Algeria -1962
Uganda - 1962
Kenya -1963
Malawi - 1963
Zambia - 1964
I ASK AGAIN - Uhuru tulipigania ama tulipewa?





what about South Africa and Zimbabwe?

South Africa 1931 (or 1910)
Zimbabwe 1965
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
YesuWangu
#60 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 2:37:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Masukuma, it appears we were given. The dominos were already falling. It was just a matter of time before the kenyan one was arrived at. But lets be kind to the veterans. They sincerely believe they fought for it. This news will break their hearts.
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