Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
ARM HY2017
Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
|
wukan wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:rwitre wrote:lochaz-index wrote:Still think that balance sheet is hiding alot more skeletons than what has been revealed so far. Time will tell. They keep coming @Obiero is all smiles  For the umpteenth time never ever buy a corporate bond in Kenya... Never... What about safaricom and kengen bonds? ARM was junk bond In the bonds section... I mentioned safaricom and Eabl... When they were doing that bond ARM was a darling you wouldnt have termed it junk then.... possunt quia posse videntur
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,935
|
maka wrote:wukan wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:rwitre wrote:lochaz-index wrote:Still think that balance sheet is hiding alot more skeletons than what has been revealed so far. Time will tell. They keep coming @Obiero is all smiles For the umpteenth time never ever buy a corporate bond in Kenya... Never... What about safaricom and kengen bonds? ARM was junk bond In the bonds section... I mentioned safaricom and Eabl... When they were doing that bond ARM was a darling you wouldnt have termed it junk then.... Reminds me of Commercial Paper in the 90s  In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,351 Location: Nairobi
|
Fyatu wrote:rwitre wrote:lochaz-index wrote:Still think that balance sheet is hiding alot more skeletons than what has been revealed so far. Time will tell. They keep coming The time is nigh for Paunrana to make an appearance on rich Tv( https://www.rich.co.ke/rctools/richtv.php) as he used to do in the past and put the record straight. Does he have the cash to hire AKS 😂😂😂 AKS isn’t free! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,351 Location: Nairobi
|
The only “safe” (in commas) corporate bonds are those issues by firms with well-known parents eg EABL, Stanbic, Safaricom (redeemed), perhaps KenGen (with GoK’s backing), etc. It’s better to invest in GoK paper than bonds of local firms on a risk-reward basis! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,654
|
VituVingiSana wrote:The only “safe” (in commas) corporate bonds are those issues by firms with well-known parents eg EABL, Stanbic, Safaricom (redeemed), perhaps KenGen (with GoK’s backing), etc.
It’s better to invest in GoK paper than bonds of local firms on a risk-reward basis! I agree with you on the first part. Second part I would disagree given the experience in 1994 when GoK defaulted and rescheduled debt. During that period private sector commercial paper went burst. Just like then the public sector is overextended showing up in economic inefficiency. That inefficiency must resolve/re-balance) and when it does you don't want to be holding GoK long-term paper.
|
|
|
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,351 Location: Nairobi
|
wukan wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:The only “safe” (in commas) corporate bonds are those issues by firms with well-known parents eg EABL, Stanbic, Safaricom (redeemed), perhaps KenGen (with GoK’s backing), etc.
It’s better to invest in GoK paper than bonds of local firms on a risk-reward basis! I agree with you on the first part. Second part I would disagree given the experience in 1994 when GoK defaulted and rescheduled debt. During that period private sector commercial paper went burst. Just like then the public sector is overextended showing up in economic inefficiency. That inefficiency must resolve/re-balance) and when it does you don't want to be holding GoK long-term paper. @wukan - Did GoK pay off the rescheduled debt? It might not have been ideal but compare GoK paper of a similar duration to paper of local firms eg ARM, Chase, Imperial, etc. I was NOT comparing GoK debt to other investments eg land, USD, debt issued by USA, Japan or U.K. Are you saying holding local companies’ debt is safer than GoK debt? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,654
|
VituVingiSana wrote:wukan wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:The only “safe” (in commas) corporate bonds are those issues by firms with well-known parents eg EABL, Stanbic, Safaricom (redeemed), perhaps KenGen (with GoK’s backing), etc.
It’s better to invest in GoK paper than bonds of local firms on a risk-reward basis! I agree with you on the first part. Second part I would disagree given the experience in 1994 when GoK defaulted and rescheduled debt. During that period private sector commercial paper went burst. Just like then the public sector is overextended showing up in economic inefficiency. That inefficiency must resolve/re-balance) and when it does you don't want to be holding GoK long-term paper. @wukan - Did GoK pay off the rescheduled debt? It might not have been ideal but compare GoK paper of a similar duration to paper of local firms eg ARM, Chase, Imperial, etc. I was NOT comparing GoK debt to other investments eg land, USD, debt issued by USA, Japan or U.K. Are you saying holding local companies’ debt is safer than GoK debt? Yes GoK eventually paid off the debt after further rescheduling in 2000 and 2004. When GoK was rescheduling in 1994 Uchumi supermarkets was making a killing in retail and t-bills I classify ARM,Chase and Imperial in junk status. A better like for like comparison would be GoK paper vs KCB/Equity/Safcom corporate debt of similar duration. Which one would you prefer? Remember GoK has coercive powers it can default and buyback your bond at a discount.
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/18/2014 Posts: 1,127
|
maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:rwitre wrote:lochaz-index wrote:Still think that balance sheet is hiding alot more skeletons than what has been revealed so far. Time will tell. They keep coming @Obiero is all smiles For the umpteenth time never ever buy a corporate bond in Kenya... Never... Such a pity that is the corporate bond market in KE. AAA corporate bond should be the safest out there. The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/18/2014 Posts: 1,127
|
wukan wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:wukan wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:The only “safe” (in commas) corporate bonds are those issues by firms with well-known parents eg EABL, Stanbic, Safaricom (redeemed), perhaps KenGen (with GoK’s backing), etc.
It’s better to invest in GoK paper than bonds of local firms on a risk-reward basis! I agree with you on the first part. Second part I would disagree given the experience in 1994 when GoK defaulted and rescheduled debt. During that period private sector commercial paper went burst. Just like then the public sector is overextended showing up in economic inefficiency. That inefficiency must resolve/re-balance) and when it does you don't want to be holding GoK long-term paper. @wukan - Did GoK pay off the rescheduled debt? It might not have been ideal but compare GoK paper of a similar duration to paper of local firms eg ARM, Chase, Imperial, etc. I was NOT comparing GoK debt to other investments eg land, USD, debt issued by USA, Japan or U.K. Are you saying holding local companies’ debt is safer than GoK debt? Yes GoK eventually paid off the debt after further rescheduling in 2000 and 2004. When GoK was rescheduling in 1994 Uchumi supermarkets was making a killing in retail and t-bills I classify ARM,Chase and Imperial in junk status. A better like for like comparison would be GoK paper vs KCB/Equity/Safcom corporate debt of similar duration. Which one would you prefer? Remember GoK has coercive powers it can default and buyback your bond at a discount. You don't want to be caught being long on any govt paper anywhere in the world right now...it is just bad timing. AAA corporate bond is the safest hideout. Despite popular opinion, defaults on govt papers happens oftenly, sometimes en masse (during a sovereign debt crisis). ARM even at it's very peak was never AAA material. Didn't centum also issue one last year? That will be interesting to watch. The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 14,229 Location: nairobi
|
Angelica _ann wrote:maka wrote:wukan wrote:maka wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:rwitre wrote:lochaz-index wrote:Still think that balance sheet is hiding alot more skeletons than what has been revealed so far. Time will tell. They keep coming @Obiero is all smiles For the umpteenth time never ever buy a corporate bond in Kenya... Never... What about safaricom and kengen bonds? ARM was junk bond In the bonds section... I mentioned safaricom and Eabl... When they were doing that bond ARM was a darling you wouldnt have termed it junk then.... Reminds me of Commercial Paper in the 90s And people are still buying this piece of junk..
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Investor
»
Stocks
»
ARM HY2017
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|