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Euphoria kando, consider this
thuks
#41 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 12:00:28 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
kadonye wrote:
With these many interpretation issues which are clear even to laymen in law,I think it's wise I change my career to law.smile

By 30 I'll be an LLBsmile


BEST WISHES!

94
(5) No person or body, other than parliament, has the power to make provision having the force of law in kenya except under authority conferred by this constitution or by legislation.
I care!
Fundaah
#42 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 12:04:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Ngalaka wrote:

But any way, we are dying to jump headlong into this, so any explanation to the contrary is supposed to be jeered upon.



Sir from this morning onwards .....we have changed the tempo here....we are for peace ... not jeering ... not war .... regardless of ones opinion..





Please.....please...... please Vote peacefully ...whichever way you vote...Love and embrace your brothers and sisters ..... Kenya is our only home and it belongs to us all....preach this also to your folks...there is life after August 5....Dont fight....

Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
B.Timer
#43 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 1:13:40 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
@Wendz

I like your optimism.
I quite appreciate the need to balance between sustainable land use to realize optimum production and letting our people be.
Agreed small paddocks wont feed the Nation effectively, neither can we export any meaningful quantities of Cash crops.
That no withstanding, lets face Kenya’s reality;
We are primarily (unfortunate as it is) a peasants economy. Our people largely depend on their land to LIVE.
In a typical family in upcountry Kenya less than 20% of the household is involved in salaried engagement. It therefore translates that 80% of their livelihood is directly drawn from harnessing their land.
That’s why the Land issue and its ownership is so emotive around here.
Now the proposed law seeks to draw a line on the minimum parcel of land that one can own legally!
In the proposed constitution, parliament has up to 5years to come up with that legislation – see fifth schedule.

Inevitably, in certain areas siblings will have to communally own land as no division is permissible under the law!!
Si mapanga hayo!!!

Until and unless Kenya gets industrialized or the economy grows in such a way that our people don’t have to rely on their land to self sustain, then land issue will remain a hyper sensitive matter.
Those of us occupying the comfort zone, need be careful as we attempt to walk the tight rope of pontificating from our armchairs in the city, on matters of life and death that touch on our brethren in the upcountry.
I am positive the balance can be found, but care is necessary more than ever before.
Dunia ni msongamano..
Fundaah
#44 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 1:18:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
B.Timer wrote:
@Wendz

I like your optimism.
I quite appreciate the need to balance between sustainable land use to realize optimum production and letting our people be.
Agreed small paddocks wont feed the Nation effectively, neither can we export any meaningful quantities of Cash crops.
That no withstanding, lets face Kenya’s reality;
We are primarily (unfortunate as it is) a peasants economy. Our people largely depend on their land to LIVE.
In a typical family in upcountry Kenya less than 20% of the household is involved in salaried engagement. It therefore translates that 80% of their livelihood is directly drawn from harnessing their land.
That’s why the Land issue and its ownership is so emotive around here.
Now the proposed law seeks to draw a line on the minimum parcel of land that one can own legally!
In the proposed constitution, parliament has up to 5years to come up with that legislation – see fifth schedule.

Inevitably, in certain areas siblings will have to communally own land as no division is permissible under the law!!
Si mapanga hayo!!!

Until and unless Kenya gets industrialized or the economy grows in such a way that our people don’t have to rely on their land to self sustain, then land issue will remain a hyper sensitive matter.
Those of us occupying the comfort zone, need be careful as we attempt to walk the tight rope of pontificating from our armchairs in the city, on matters of life and death that touch on our brethren in the upcountry.
I am positive the balance can be found, but care is necessary more than ever before.



agreed ...and quite a good tone....that's the way to go henceforth


Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
Wendz
#45 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 1:34:11 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Ngalaka wrote:
Kenya is already a signatory to various international laws.
That means Kenya has already ratified them!
Upon the passage of the proposed constitution, those laws automatically become part of Kenyan law.
e.g ICC and its laws.

These weren’t debated and passed by Parliament.

But any way, we are dying to jump headlong into this, so any explanation to the contrary is supposed to be jeered upon.
Be my guest!


Arent these laws already applicable or what is ICC doing here? and by the way, international laws are important to any country if it is going relate/trade etc with other countries. that was the origin of international laws. The treaties will be deliberated by the parliament first.
Ngalaka
#46 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 1:37:46 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
thuks wrote:
kadonye wrote:
With these many interpretation issues which are clear even to laymen in law,I think it's wise I change my career to law.smile

By 30 I'll be an LLBsmile


BEST WISHES!

94
(5) No person or body, other than parliament, has the power to make provision having the force of law in kenya except under authority conferred by this constitution or by legislation.


Triping yourself!!

No other body other than the Legislature has the power to make laws EXCEPT under authority confered by this constitution....

That provision/authority in the case of international law is given in 2 (5)
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Fundaah
#47 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 1:53:47 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Vuluku,

Supremacy of this Constitution
2.

(5) The general rules of international law shall form part of the law of Kenya.

what are they ...? can they be imposed on a country?

Read 5 and 6.... do not read selectively ...

read this article to get some light on what the spirit of art 5 was

http://anthonydamato.law...iles/a02-ox-comp-il.pdf


(6) Any treaty or convention ratified by Kenya shall form part of the law of
Kenya under this Constitution.

Ratification....[color=green]ratification[/color] must be done
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
Ngalaka
#48 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 1:57:56 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Wendz wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
Kenya is already a signatory to various international laws.
That means Kenya has already ratified them!
Upon the passage of the proposed constitution, those laws automatically become part of Kenyan law.
e.g ICC and its laws.

These weren’t debated and passed by Parliament.

But any way, we are dying to jump headlong into this, so any explanation to the contrary is supposed to be jeered upon.
Be my guest!


Arent these laws already applicable or what is ICC doing here? and by the way, international laws are important to any country if it is going relate/trade etc with other countries. that was the origin of international laws. The treaties will be deliberated by the parliament first.



Dead wrong!

Part of the reason why we couldnt prosecute PEV was that the ICC laws on crimes against humanity, genocide werent applicable here.
We therefore attempted to legislate to create basis for a tribunal applying such laws but Parliament reneged!

International laws arent entirely bad if Kenya is to remain a responsible player in the world forum.
However blanket acceptance and especially taking them as part of our laws is tricky!
The constitution ought to have said that Parliament will audit them first.

Ratification as far as I know is done by the executive and/or his representative who attend those conventions.

USA, Israel ect refused to sign/ratify some of the resolutions.
But they still trade with everybody else.
Its about being responsible not trade!

ASgain draw the distintion between 1)Ratifying/ accepting the resoulutions/conventions and 2)Making them local law.


Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Ngalaka
#49 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 2:04:22 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Fundaah wrote:
Vuluku,

Supremacy of this Constitution
2.

(5) The general rules of international law shall form part of the law of Kenya.

what are they ...? can they be imposed on a country?

Read 5 and 6.... do not read selectively ...

read this article to get some light on what the spirit of art 5 was

http://anthonydamato.law...iles/a02-ox-comp-il.pdf


(6) Any treaty or convention ratified by Kenya shall form part of the law of
Kenya under this Constitution.

Ratification....[color=green]ratification[/color] must be done


After realising that there can not be any meaningful dialugue with your good self, I actually chose to stop any attempt to it.

However what is your understanding of RATIFICATION.
In your opinion has Kenya ratified any international conventions/treaties todate.

What is the fate of those after Aug 4th.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Wendz
#50 Posted : Friday, July 16, 2010 2:20:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
B.Timer wrote:
@Wendz

I like your optimism.
I quite appreciate the need to balance between sustainable land use to realize optimum production and letting our people be.
Agreed small paddocks wont feed the Nation effectively, neither can we export any meaningful quantities of Cash crops.
That no withstanding, lets face Kenya’s reality;
We are primarily (unfortunate as it is) a peasants economy. Our people largely depend on their land to LIVE.
In a typical family in upcountry Kenya less than 20% of the household is involved in salaried engagement. It therefore translates that 80% of their livelihood is directly drawn from harnessing their land.
That’s why the Land issue and its ownership is so emotive around here.
Now the proposed law seeks to draw a line on the minimum parcel of land that one can own legally!
In the proposed constitution, parliament has up to 5years to come up with that legislation – see fifth schedule.

Inevitably, in certain areas siblings will have to communally own land as no division is permissible under the law!!
Si mapanga hayo!!!

Until and unless Kenya gets industrialized or the economy grows in such a way that our people don’t have to rely on their land to self sustain, then land issue will remain a hyper sensitive matter.
Those of us occupying the comfort zone, need be careful as we attempt to walk the tight rope of pontificating from our armchairs in the city, on matters of life and death that touch on our brethren in the upcountry.
I am positive the balance can be found, but care is necessary more than ever before.


mmmmmmh, I had not looked at that bit. Very true. initially, its not going to be easy - change is hard to take.
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