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M7 Social Media TAX -Excellent
alma1
#41 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 8:52:01 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
my fear is that someone like tom boy could actually be a gov't official.

Boss, FB is just a simple website, just like wazua. It just has more users than wazua.

Do you want to now tax linkedin, dailymail, cnn.com, and every website that Kenyans use on the internet?

In fact my participating in this topic is a sign that I may be in support of backward thinking.

So I'll make this short. Museveni ni ngombe na aje achukue zile zake zimebaki huku.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Swenani
#42 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 9:26:57 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Lol....Nyasaye!!!!....govt already taxes you to use FB through the excise and VAT tax on airtime and internet connection.

If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
Obi 1 Kanobi
#43 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 9:46:02 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
tom_boy wrote:
Long reply. Clearly FB is very emotive for some. However, the logic is very simple. People go to FB to enjoy. They should be taxed for that value add. When you go to a club, you both pay fuel to get there and buy stuff/drinks to enjoy n the club. These drinks are taxed. Only problem is that the FB product is not physical, but it still delivers enjoyment, therefore it should be taxed.

FB is distracting. People can't work because of it. At some level it lowers individual productivity just like pombe.. That's a social evil.

If the major club is shut down, a new club will come up. If FB goes, I am sure a new dominant player will come in, willing to pay tax. The only reason we don't have another mpesa operation is because mpesa is present. Remove the current mpesa and in 1 yr flat, people will not remember mpesa existed. Other players will have come in.

Both the club owner (FB ET al) and club goers (@masukuma, @muchr ET al) should pay taxes.

FB sio githeri ama omena.


The truth is its possible to tax FB use based on access by Kenyans or by IPs based in Kenya. But what you first have to define is what/who you want to tax, is it FB the company, people advertising in FB, or registered FB users.

It is not possible to tax FB the company due to residence rules etc, they are not based in Kenya, so would fail the residency test which is a pre-requisite for taxation purposes, you would only be left with taxing their product/service as an import, so question is how would you go about determining the value of the import for tax purposes and who would be the importer of the service who would bear the tax.

People who would qualify as importers for service are the users or adverts originating from Kenyan IP addresses, in both cases, you would be making the product expensive for Kenyans while in no way affecting FB. Adverts are easy to capture but the problem is who would collect the tax for you. FB will be least bothered to collect and remit the advertising taxes to you knowing very well that you have very little chance of shutting them down in an open democracy, while users would not be willing to remit anything plus its impossible to measure their value. And that leaves you to tax data, which be default affects users idling on FB and those using data for important conference calls to negotiate business deals etc.

So the impact of the tax automatically shifts from FB to your poor Housegirl trying to upload a photo of herself lying on your sofa. In conclusion, you cannot tax FB, you can discourage its use, if that's what you want by taxing data, the way Museveni has done.

I can bet Safaricom probably makes a shilling for every penny facebook makes on our data, so maybe we should target Safaricom
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
tom_boy
#44 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 11:12:03 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Long reply. Clearly FB is very emotive for some. However, the logic is very simple. People go to FB to enjoy. They should be taxed for that value add. When you go to a club, you both pay fuel to get there and buy stuff/drinks to enjoy n the club. These drinks are taxed. Only problem is that the FB product is not physical, but it still delivers enjoyment, therefore it should be taxed.

FB is distracting. People can't work because of it. At some level it lowers individual productivity just like pombe.. That's a social evil.

If the major club is shut down, a new club will come up. If FB goes, I am sure a new dominant player will come in, willing to pay tax. The only reason we don't have another mpesa operation is because mpesa is present. Remove the current mpesa and in 1 yr flat, people will not remember mpesa existed. Other players will have come in.

Both the club owner (FB ET al) and club goers (@masukuma, @muchr ET al) should pay taxes.

FB sio githeri ama omena.


The truth is its possible to tax FB use based on access by Kenyans or by IPs based in Kenya. But what you first have to define is what/who you want to tax, is it FB the company, people advertising in FB, or registered FB users.Tax FB the company and the people using FB. Social media has reached a level at which it is intoxicating and addictive. Just like alcohol and cigarettes

It is not possible to tax FB the company due to residence rules etc, they are not based in Kenya, so would fail the residency test which is a pre-requisite for taxation purposes, you would only be left with taxing their product/service as an import, so question is how would you go about determining the value of the import for tax purposes and who would be the importer of the service who would bear the tax.companies that sell goods in Kenya get taxed in Kenya irrespective of their residence. I guess the question is, is FB selling a commodity? What commodity? Are the consumers paying for that commodity? How are they paying for it? If indeed a bonafide transaction is taking place between consumer and provider, why should they not pay tax? Facebook commodity is the "feel good factor" that you get after spending hours on FB. A factor that is so good that you prefer to spend time on FB than on another site. You pay for this convenience with your personal data. Your phonebook details, your habits that are being tracked. Your eyes to see ads and buy into concepts. FB makes money out of this data by targeted advertising. So Kenyan consumer data is not worthless to FB as many are want to think. It is a product with value and so FB should pay tax for it.

People who would qualify as importers for service are the users or adverts originating from Kenyan IP addresses, in both cases, you would be making the product expensive for Kenyans while in no way affecting FB. Adverts are easy to capture but the problem is who would collect the tax for you. FB will be least bothered to collect and remit the advertising taxes to you knowing very well that you have very little chance of shutting them down in an open democracy, while users would not be willing to remit anything plus its impossible to measure their value. And that leaves you to tax data, which be default affects users idling on FB and those using data for important conference calls to negotiate business deals etc.Let there be a fee payable by FB to allow it to operate in Kenya. FB will choose to pay or not to pay. If they choose not to pay, they should be made to ensure that FB is not accessible from Kenya. Kenya has a right to determine what products are consumed in Kenya or not. FB are at liberty to recover the cost from the advertisers.

So the impact of the tax automatically shifts from FB to your poor Housegirl trying to upload a photo of herself lying on your sofa. In conclusion, you cannot tax FB, you can discourage its use, if that's what you want by taxing data, the way Museveni has done. How does my housegirl uploading her photo help the economy? In fact, she should pay for the luxury of uploading photos on FB while she should be watching the kids. One of the functions of tax is to discourage one habit while encouraging another. A tax on social media sites will discourage wasting time on useless status updates and gossip but encourage other sites that offer constructive ideas like wazua.

I can bet Safaricom probably makes a shilling for every penny facebook makes on our data, so maybe we should target Safaricom The world is moving towards targeting, efficiency and traceability. Safaricom should be taxed on data. Websites should be taxed also based on the commodity they provide. some commodities are worthless and encourage social evils like gossip, slandering, homosexuality, teenage sex etc. Social media sites like FB, Instagram et a fall in this category. Just like tax on beer and cigarettes is high, so should be the tax on these social media sites. I know many people who are extremely successful and yet are not on social media or even whatsup. So these sites are not a prerequisite for success. They exist to mine our data and use it to make money. For this reason, they should pay tax.


FB sio githeri ama omena!
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
masukuma
#45 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 1:10:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
sijui tunakupoteza wapi - FACEBOOK DOES NOT OPERATE IN KENYA. you as a user goes all the way to the US to get serviced. sijui tunakupotezea wapi? facebook is ACCESSIBLE from Kenya that's all. Facebook is a website running on SERVERS.. in the US. The US are the only people who can tax them unless they open an operation in your country. THEY WILL NOT PAY TAX IN KENYA unless they open an office here so your argument that they SHOULD PAY TAX is really moot.

The only question here is WHAT CAN GAVA DO ABOUT IT
1) block facebook and wait for facebook to come and negotiate
2) tax the user who is accessing facebook over and above the VAT and excise duty they have paid to access the internet.
these can be done and have been done and so far what I can tell you is that these actions need a bit of thought.. you may discover that kumbe facebook sio omena ama githeri... it's more important than those 2 things. That's why I urged people to measure the diameter of their anuses before swallowing a mango whole. just because umemeza haimaanishi kazi imekwisha hapo.

Secondly, who is this person who determines what is a 'social evil' or not?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
murchr
#46 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 1:55:56 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Yaani someone thinks they have a valid point on this useless tax? Ai!
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
tom_boy
#47 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 2:15:39 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
masukuma wrote:
sijui tunakupoteza wapi - FACEBOOK DOES NOT OPERATE IN KENYA. you as a user goes all the way to the US to get serviced. sijui tunakupotezea wapi? facebook is ACCESSIBLE from Kenya that's all. Facebook is a website running on SERVERS.. in the US. The US are the only people who can tax them unless they open an operation in your country. THEY WILL NOT PAY TAX IN KENYA unless they open an office here so your argument that they SHOULD PAY TAX is really moot.

The only question here is WHAT CAN GAVA DO ABOUT IT
1) block facebook and wait for facebook to come and negotiate
2) tax the user who is accessing facebook over and above the VAT and excise duty they have paid to access the internet.
these can be done and have been done and so far what I can tell you is that these actions need a bit of thought.. you may discover that kumbe facebook sio omena ama githeri... it's more important than those 2 things. That's why I urged people to measure the diameter of their anuses before swallowing a mango whole. just because umemeza haimaanishi kazi imekwisha hapo.

Secondly, who is this person who determines what is a 'social evil' or not?


Your IQ must be very low. You can't debate your point bila matusi. I cannot continue to debate with a fool who cannot communicate without abuse and who thinks FB is just a server. Bure kabisa
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
hardwood
#48 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 2:35:44 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
tom_boy wrote:
masukuma wrote:
sijui tunakupoteza wapi - FACEBOOK DOES NOT OPERATE IN KENYA. you as a user goes all the way to the US to get serviced. sijui tunakupotezea wapi? facebook is ACCESSIBLE from Kenya that's all. Facebook is a website running on SERVERS.. in the US. The US are the only people who can tax them unless they open an operation in your country. THEY WILL NOT PAY TAX IN KENYA unless they open an office here so your argument that they SHOULD PAY TAX is really moot.

The only question here is WHAT CAN GAVA DO ABOUT IT
1) block facebook and wait for facebook to come and negotiate
2) tax the user who is accessing facebook over and above the VAT and excise duty they have paid to access the internet.
these can be done and have been done and so far what I can tell you is that these actions need a bit of thought.. you may discover that kumbe facebook sio omena ama githeri... it's more important than those 2 things. That's why I urged people to measure the diameter of their anuses before swallowing a mango whole. just because umemeza haimaanishi kazi imekwisha hapo.

Secondly, who is this person who determines what is a 'social evil' or not?


Your IQ must be very low. You can't debate your point bila matusi. I cannot continue to debate with a fool who cannot communicate without abuse and who thinks FB is just a server. Bure kabisa


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Obi 1 Kanobi
#49 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 2:59:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
tom_boy wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Long reply. Clearly FB is very emotive for some. However, the logic is very simple. People go to FB to enjoy. They should be taxed for that value add. When you go to a club, you both pay fuel to get there and buy stuff/drinks to enjoy n the club. These drinks are taxed. Only problem is that the FB product is not physical, but it still delivers enjoyment, therefore it should be taxed.

FB is distracting. People can't work because of it. At some level it lowers individual productivity just like pombe.. That's a social evil.

If the major club is shut down, a new club will come up. If FB goes, I am sure a new dominant player will come in, willing to pay tax. The only reason we don't have another mpesa operation is because mpesa is present. Remove the current mpesa and in 1 yr flat, people will not remember mpesa existed. Other players will have come in.

Both the club owner (FB ET al) and club goers (@masukuma, @muchr ET al) should pay taxes.

FB sio githeri ama omena.


The truth is its possible to tax FB use based on access by Kenyans or by IPs based in Kenya. But what you first have to define is what/who you want to tax, is it FB the company, people advertising in FB, or registered FB users.Tax FB the company and the people using FB. Social media has reached a level at which it is intoxicating and addictive. Just like alcohol and cigarettes

It is not possible to tax FB the company due to residence rules etc, they are not based in Kenya, so would fail the residency test which is a pre-requisite for taxation purposes, you would only be left with taxing their product/service as an import, so question is how would you go about determining the value of the import for tax purposes and who would be the importer of the service who would bear the tax.companies that sell goods in Kenya get taxed in Kenya irrespective of their residence. I guess the question is, is FB selling a commodity? What commodity? Are the consumers paying for that commodity? How are they paying for it? If indeed a bonafide transaction is taking place between consumer and provider, why should they not pay tax? Facebook commodity is the "feel good factor" that you get after spending hours on FB. A factor that is so good that you prefer to spend time on FB than on another site. You pay for this convenience with your personal data. Your phonebook details, your habits that are being tracked. Your eyes to see ads and buy into concepts. FB makes money out of this data by targeted advertising. So Kenyan consumer data is not worthless to FB as many are want to think. It is a product with value and so FB should pay tax for it.

People who would qualify as importers for service are the users or adverts originating from Kenyan IP addresses, in both cases, you would be making the product expensive for Kenyans while in no way affecting FB. Adverts are easy to capture but the problem is who would collect the tax for you. FB will be least bothered to collect and remit the advertising taxes to you knowing very well that you have very little chance of shutting them down in an open democracy, while users would not be willing to remit anything plus its impossible to measure their value. And that leaves you to tax data, which be default affects users idling on FB and those using data for important conference calls to negotiate business deals etc.Let there be a fee payable by FB to allow it to operate in Kenya. FB will choose to pay or not to pay. If they choose not to pay, they should be made to ensure that FB is not accessible from Kenya. Kenya has a right to determine what products are consumed in Kenya or not. FB are at liberty to recover the cost from the advertisers.

So the impact of the tax automatically shifts from FB to your poor Housegirl trying to upload a photo of herself lying on your sofa. In conclusion, you cannot tax FB, you can discourage its use, if that's what you want by taxing data, the way Museveni has done. How does my housegirl uploading her photo help the economy? In fact, she should pay for the luxury of uploading photos on FB while she should be watching the kids. One of the functions of tax is to discourage one habit while encouraging another. A tax on social media sites will discourage wasting time on useless status updates and gossip but encourage other sites that offer constructive ideas like wazua.

I can bet Safaricom probably makes a shilling for every penny facebook makes on our data, so maybe we should target Safaricom The world is moving towards targeting, efficiency and traceability. Safaricom should be taxed on data. Websites should be taxed also based on the commodity they provide. some commodities are worthless and encourage social evils like gossip, slandering, homosexuality, teenage sex etc. Social media sites like FB, Instagram et a fall in this category. Just like tax on beer and cigarettes is high, so should be the tax on these social media sites. I know many people who are extremely successful and yet are not on social media or even whatsup. So these sites are not a prerequisite for success. They exist to mine our data and use it to make money. For this reason, they should pay tax.


FB sio githeri ama omena!


@Tomboy, your argument is similar to demanding that we tax the parent companies of Toyota, Mercedes, microsoft or any other producer of imported goods that are imported and consumed in Kenya.

FYI, we don't tax the foreign producers of the imports we consume, we tax Kenyans for consuming the imported goods. We can only tax the company when they open a plant in Kenya, then we can tax them for the profits they generate from Kenya.

I hope this helps you understand how taxation works.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
masukuma
#50 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 3:05:53 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
masukuma wrote:
sijui tunakupoteza wapi - FACEBOOK DOES NOT OPERATE IN KENYA. you as a user goes all the way to the US to get serviced. sijui tunakupotezea wapi? facebook is ACCESSIBLE from Kenya that's all. Facebook is a website running on SERVERS.. in the US. The US are the only people who can tax them unless they open an operation in your country. THEY WILL NOT PAY TAX IN KENYA unless they open an office here so your argument that they SHOULD PAY TAX is really moot.

The only question here is WHAT CAN GAVA DO ABOUT IT
1) block facebook and wait for facebook to come and negotiate
2) tax the user who is accessing facebook over and above the VAT and excise duty they have paid to access the internet.
these can be done and have been done and so far what I can tell you is that these actions need a bit of thought.. you may discover that kumbe facebook sio omena ama githeri... it's more important than those 2 things. That's why I urged people to measure the diameter of their anuses before swallowing a mango whole. just because umemeza haimaanishi kazi imekwisha hapo.

Secondly, who is this person who determines what is a 'social evil' or not?


Your IQ must be very low. You can't debate your point bila matusi. I cannot continue to debate with a fool who cannot communicate without abuse and who thinks FB is just a server. Bure kabisa

enyewe mimi ndio mjinga hapa... arguing with people who take proverbs to be literal things... hujawahi sikia hii proverb?
Quote:
If you want to swallow a mango seed, you first of all calculate the diameter of your anus.

maana ya ndani is to urge people to think through their actions?
yes... Facebook is a bunch of servers and a bunch of people servicing those servers.
Mimi ndio mjinga coz I almost fell for your ad hominem - jibu maswali zangu halafu you tell us tunakupotezea wapi!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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