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President Uhuru Kenyatta 2nd Term - 2017/2022
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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Fyatu wrote:wukan wrote:masukuma wrote:I have always wondered why people fear national debt... if someone is unwise enough to give you lots of money bila conditions or collateral - the joke is on him. Because in every country that has undergone a debt crisis it is the middle class that shrinks most melting into poverty and the poor really suffer. Check out what Brazil went through you will realize why the impeached their president for lying about debt. Quote:Brazil is the country that might have become another Japan. Instead, it is flat broke, with a broken spirit and an empty treasury.
The Brazilian ''miracle'' - the spurt of growth from the late 1960's to the late 1970's - became the economist's model of the way to manage expansion from agrarian stagnation to the newly industrialized stage.
Now, however, Brazil is in its third year of recession, and the country that once was the world banking system's ideal borrower pleads for loans just to pay the interest on its debts.
How Brazil fell to a position where it is known best today for the weight of its $92 billion foreign debt, larger than that of any other country, is a matter that absorbs all those who have a stake in the country - Brazilians themselves and the industrial world, which relies for much of its own prosperity on the health of developing countries such as Brazil.
Leading Brazilians both inside and outside the Government cite the effects of the sharp rise in oil prices during the 1970's on an economy that had been building its future on imported oil. They blame Western banks for heaping an insupportable burden of loans on the country. And they blame the United States for incurring budget deficits of $200 billion a year that have forced up world interest rates and hence affected the ability of Brazil to make interest payments.
Ultimately, however, they blame Brazil's technocrats, the people who took the bankers' money. Dose this sound familiar to Jubilee 5000Mw power project, SGR, road annuity. Quote:'Pharaonic Projects' Cited
The technocrats' errors, in the view of many Brazilians, involved Pharaonic projects, many of which were conceived to protect Brazil from future oil-price shocks.
For example, until the current economy forced them to postpone some, the Government-owned power utilities were building enough plants - hydroelectric, nuclear and coal - to produce more power than Brazil is expected to need well beyond the year 2000.
In addition, a multibillion-dollar railroad, with many costly bridges and tunnels, is being built alongside a railroad that, critics contend, might have been rehabilitated at much lower cost. Read the rest http://www.nytimes.com/1...pse.html?pagewanted=all
The New York times article referenced above is dated 1983. It is important that i remind you that TODAY(2018), Brazil is the 8th largest economy in the World. Perhaps due to the debt they took for massive infrastructural development(Pharaonic Projects) in the past.Uhuruto must borrow and ensure that borrowed funds build assets that will give Kenya and edge in the next 50 years.That legacy will last forever. @Mugundaman has described some wazuans as people who love to hear themselves speak despite not knowing what they are talking about. Some other wazuan lamented that wazua is increasingly becoming a melting pot of river road economics/ist I urge Uhuruto handlers who visit wazua to remind CIC that he must not fail in delivering key infrastructure.for example, at the very least SGR must touch lake Victoria, the 3 lamu berths must be complete, Mombasa-mariakani superhighway, 200,000 houses etc by 2022
My views are that Kenya should continue building these strategic infrastructures irrespective of the amount of borrowing for the same. If we can get funding now...let's go ahead and build. A time will come when either it will be too costly to build or there will be no country or organisation that can fund such developments.
If President Moi had borrowed heavily and built these structures this country would have got these assets at much lower cost than they costing now and the loans repayments would have been renegotiated over time and won't be a big burden now. If I was the president I would borrow as much as possible and get these projects completed in full and on time. Which country has never had a crisis due to ambition in their development journey? We shall not remain in the crisis forever...one generation may suffer but the next one will have some assets to build on and make the country better.
Our problem is corruption...Where we borrow to steal and the cost of the projects are too high to ever make economic sense.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income. If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those?  Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. So, given this, how will they ever contribute to income generation? For example, Coal electicity generation is not going to contribute to anything...given we are importing the coal itself.  Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,589
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Fyatu wrote:
The New York times article referenced above is dated 1983. It is important that i remind you that TODAY(2018), Brazil is the 8th largest economy in the World. Perhaps due to the debt they took for massive infrastructural development(Pharaonic Projects) in the past.Uhuruto must borrow and ensure that borrowed funds build assets that will give Kenya and edge in the next 50 years.That legacy will last forever.
@Mugundaman has described some wazuans as people who love to hear themselves speak despite not knowing what they are talking about.
Some other wazuan lamented that wazua is increasingly becoming a melting pot of river road economics/ist
I urge Uhuruto handlers who visit wazua to remind CIC that he must not fail in delivering key infrastructure.for example, at the very least SGR must touch lake Victoria, the 3 lamu berths must be complete, Mombasa-mariakani superhighway, 200,000 houses etc by 2022
Thank you for at least taking time to read the article. Just to point out Brazil's economy is 500 years old. As result of that debt binge Brazil had to change currencies like 5 times. Anyway all hail the Pharaoh...let's talk when sh*t hits the fan(if at all) then you realize there is something called organic growth
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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masukuma wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Jump-steady wrote:masukuma wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!! Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2015 Posts: 681 Location: Kenya
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masukuma wrote:Jump-steady wrote:masukuma wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!! Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako! Naskia wanaweza tuchota sote (colonize) tukishindwa kulipa....
60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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Thitifini wrote:masukuma wrote:Jump-steady wrote:masukuma wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!! Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako! Naskia wanaweza tuchota sote (colonize) tukishindwa kulipa.... Generally, i don't have a problem with building infrastructure it is the wastage. I am a beneficiary of tarmacked road from Nairobi to the last 2km which is also relatively all weather murrum road. Before that the last 22km from the main trunk road was hell. @Liv post #81 - now reflecting, Moi really wasted Kenya. At least in Jubilee you get to see the infrastructure even though some you wonder why like that overpass/underpass hapo Nakuru/Njoro junction!!! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,820 Location: Nakuru
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wukan wrote:Fyatu wrote:
The New York times article referenced above is dated 1983. It is important that i remind you that TODAY(2018), Brazil is the 8th largest economy in the World. Perhaps due to the debt they took for massive infrastructural development(Pharaonic Projects) in the past.Uhuruto must borrow and ensure that borrowed funds build assets that will give Kenya and edge in the next 50 years.That legacy will last forever.
@Mugundaman has described some wazuans as people who love to hear themselves speak despite not knowing what they are talking about.
Some other wazuan lamented that wazua is increasingly becoming a melting pot of river road economics/ist
I urge Uhuruto handlers who visit wazua to remind CIC that he must not fail in delivering key infrastructure.for example, at the very least SGR must touch lake Victoria, the 3 lamu berths must be complete, Mombasa-mariakani superhighway, 200,000 houses etc by 2022
Thank you for at least taking time to read the article. Just to point out Brazil's economy is 500 years old. As result of that debt binge Brazil had to change currencies like 5 times. Anyway all hail the Pharaoh...let's talk when sh*t hits the fan(if at all) then you realize there is something called organic growth Using your anecdote above, i can as well argue that Mombasa's economy is 500 years old or even Ethiopia's not to mention Egypt whose economy dates way back to the days of the struggle of liberation to Canaan.But alas..non of these ancient economies are in the top 10.As @Masukuma has posited above...f*** it.The shit might as well hit the fan even today (Feb 19th 2018) for i am 100% sure no bill is going to be posted to my post office box in Gathuki mundu village.I will still continue planting and harvesting maize in my ka-point plot for subsistence and nobody will tunya me. I agree...Let the kids pay. Afterall, they are the ones who will be backpacking from Lamu to Addis or Mombasa to Kinshasa using SGR etc. They are the ones who will be road-tripping from Busia to Mombasa on 2000 km dual carriage highways etc.They are the ones who will be hosting FIFA world cups and Olympics etc..Lastly, "Organic growth" is a fad or better still a cliche used by those NGO busy bodies of kizungu mingi na catwalk...huku kwetu tunataka maendeleo chap chap alafu kesi baadaye Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Thitifini wrote:masukuma wrote:Jump-steady wrote:masukuma wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!! Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako! Naskia wanaweza tuchota sote (colonize) tukishindwa kulipa.... Greece ilishindwa kulipa... and defaulted... waliColoniziwa na nani? you just get bad ratings meaning that future lenders think twice before giving you cash or charge you highly... remember the wise saying.... "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." - J. Paul Getty All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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Liv wrote:Fyatu wrote:wukan wrote:masukuma wrote:I have always wondered why people fear national debt... if someone is unwise enough to give you lots of money bila conditions or collateral - the joke is on him. Because in every country that has undergone a debt crisis it is the middle class that shrinks most melting into poverty and the poor really suffer. Check out what Brazil went through you will realize why the impeached their president for lying about debt. Quote:Brazil is the country that might have become another Japan. Instead, it is flat broke, with a broken spirit and an empty treasury.
The Brazilian ''miracle'' - the spurt of growth from the late 1960's to the late 1970's - became the economist's model of the way to manage expansion from agrarian stagnation to the newly industrialized stage.
Now, however, Brazil is in its third year of recession, and the country that once was the world banking system's ideal borrower pleads for loans just to pay the interest on its debts.
How Brazil fell to a position where it is known best today for the weight of its $92 billion foreign debt, larger than that of any other country, is a matter that absorbs all those who have a stake in the country - Brazilians themselves and the industrial world, which relies for much of its own prosperity on the health of developing countries such as Brazil.
Leading Brazilians both inside and outside the Government cite the effects of the sharp rise in oil prices during the 1970's on an economy that had been building its future on imported oil. They blame Western banks for heaping an insupportable burden of loans on the country. And they blame the United States for incurring budget deficits of $200 billion a year that have forced up world interest rates and hence affected the ability of Brazil to make interest payments.
Ultimately, however, they blame Brazil's technocrats, the people who took the bankers' money. Dose this sound familiar to Jubilee 5000Mw power project, SGR, road annuity. Quote:'Pharaonic Projects' Cited
The technocrats' errors, in the view of many Brazilians, involved Pharaonic projects, many of which were conceived to protect Brazil from future oil-price shocks.
For example, until the current economy forced them to postpone some, the Government-owned power utilities were building enough plants - hydroelectric, nuclear and coal - to produce more power than Brazil is expected to need well beyond the year 2000.
In addition, a multibillion-dollar railroad, with many costly bridges and tunnels, is being built alongside a railroad that, critics contend, might have been rehabilitated at much lower cost. Read the rest http://www.nytimes.com/1...pse.html?pagewanted=all
The New York times article referenced above is dated 1983. It is important that i remind you that TODAY(2018), Brazil is the 8th largest economy in the World. Perhaps due to the debt they took for massive infrastructural development(Pharaonic Projects) in the past.Uhuruto must borrow and ensure that borrowed funds build assets that will give Kenya and edge in the next 50 years.That legacy will last forever. @Mugundaman has described some wazuans as people who love to hear themselves speak despite not knowing what they are talking about. Some other wazuan lamented that wazua is increasingly becoming a melting pot of river road economics/ist I urge Uhuruto handlers who visit wazua to remind CIC that he must not fail in delivering key infrastructure.for example, at the very least SGR must touch lake Victoria, the 3 lamu berths must be complete, Mombasa-mariakani superhighway, 200,000 houses etc by 2022
My views are that Kenya should continue building these strategic infrastructures irrespective of the amount of borrowing for the same. If we can get funding now...let's go ahead and build. A time will come when either it will be too costly to build or there will be no country or organisation that can fund such developments.
If President Moi had borrowed heavily and built these structures this country would have got these assets at much lower cost than they costing now and the loans repayments would have been renegotiated over time and won't be a big burden now. If I was the president I would borrow as much as possible and get these projects completed in full and on time. You make a good point here. But the is where the long terms logic diverges violently from the short term emotive expediency of politics. So it makes sense for a country to borrow and invest long term in increasing its capacity to grow. In some cases, it even makes sense for a country to s pend itself out of a recession by printing money. But none of these points translates very well in political speak. So expect that some clever campaign strategist is going to run an election on the point that poor Kenyans owe a gazillion amount of shillings at birth, which makes no economic sense unless you allow for the reverse logic as well (you should be billed for the benefits you found ready when you were born). People are easy to manipulate if you know how. Just don't let them think. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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Wakanyugi wrote:So expect that some clever campaign strategist is going to run an election on the point that poor Kenyans owe a gazillion amount of shillings at birth, which makes no economic sense unless you allow for the reverse logic as well (you should be billed for the benefits you found ready when you were born). When was the last time I told you how much I hate you again?
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Go to the portal wacha mchezo rinkIf Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:Thitifini wrote:masukuma wrote:Jump-steady wrote:masukuma wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!! Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako! Naskia wanaweza tuchota sote (colonize) tukishindwa kulipa.... Greece ilishindwa kulipa... and defaulted... waliColoniziwa na nani? you just get bad ratings meaning that future lenders think twice before giving you cash or charge you highly... remember the wise saying.... "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." - J. Paul Getty @maveges, you don't just get bad ratings, it affects you as the individual. I'm certain that the bank where your income passes through, a firm where your pension is and insurances companies you transact with have all bought T-bills and T-bonds.If GoK defaults on it's debt obligations today, your bank/pension/insurance will most likely not be able to honour its obligations to you too since the money is with ke.govt who can't be able to repay.As a mido crass your credit and debit card will become useless, you will spend a whole day in order to withdraw 5K per week/month of your one million saved for the last 10 years Taxes will drop,business people will prefer cash since no one wants to take risks of being paid through the bank system where accessing the same will be difficult.Taxes dropping implies ke.govt services being reduced or completely stopped.....think of health, education,security,social security programs etc. Let's not talk about the effects on Ke.govt or businessmen transacting in international markets(fuel, buying samantha etc).....It's not just the bad rating only If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,589
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masukuma wrote:Thitifini wrote:masukuma wrote:Jump-steady wrote:masukuma wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!! Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako! Naskia wanaweza tuchota sote (colonize) tukishindwa kulipa.... Greece ilishindwa kulipa... and defaulted... waliColoniziwa na nani? you just get bad ratings meaning that future lenders think twice before giving you cash or charge you highly... remember the wise saying.... "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." - J. Paul Getty Please don't compare to Greece. Issa european country that's why with much worse ratings than kenya they get to borrow at 3.75%. Just see how the Puerto-ricos are being treated yet they are part of US. Imagine a shithole country in Africa that can't pay its debts As for ukoloni check out the situation in the Maldives...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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wukan wrote:masukuma wrote:Thitifini wrote:masukuma wrote:Jump-steady wrote:masukuma wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:KulaRaha wrote:murchr wrote:Its not how much debt that a country has that matters (which is what our jonalists focus on) but the ratio between the interest payments and income. If the income of GOK increases, the interest payments will shrink as a percentage of your income.
If the current debt to GDP ratio is at 51% then i dont see what the cause of alarm is esp given that these projects are expected to grow the income of the country. What we should not be doing is to borrow to pay salaries or spend on unnecessary pleasures. Which projects are those? Infrastructure projects such as roads, rail, electricity generation, airports ya ukweli, etc. Problem with Kenya is that they are usually overpriced, their construction are undertaken inefficiently and most of all corruption and fraud involved. At end of the day, they became very expensive to the nation. True on all fronts... very true... but here is the deal.. you have 4 options (1) get expensive infrastructure now using borrowed funds (2) wait for people to go round circles (consensus.. talking e.t.c.) and POSSIBLY get slightly less pricy infrastructure later using borrowed funds (3) get expensive infrastructure later when you have your own funds (4) wait until you have enough funds then wait for people to go round circles and possibly get slightly less pricy infrastructure F*ck it - I take (1)... the kids will pay for this sh*t!! Kwani watachota airport? or SGR? or barabara? it's like borrowing to get helb... even if you default.. hawawezi chota degree yako! Naskia wanaweza tuchota sote (colonize) tukishindwa kulipa.... Greece ilishindwa kulipa... and defaulted... waliColoniziwa na nani? you just get bad ratings meaning that future lenders think twice before giving you cash or charge you highly... remember the wise saying.... "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." - J. Paul Getty Please don't compare to Greece. Issa european country that's why with much worse ratings than kenya they get to borrow at 3.75%. Just see how the Puerto-ricos are being treated yet they are part of US. Imagine a shithole country in Africa that can't pay its debts As for ukoloni check out the situation in the Maldives... And at what rate is Kenya borrowing at? And what is it with Puerto Rico? Details please remember this quote wukan wrote:Thank you for your observation but wazua is nowadays an echo chamber for river-road economics, people love hearing their own thoughts. We wanna hear you "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Implementing the Agenda 4 will not be a walk in the park for UK. Quote:City lawyer Apollo Mboya has filed a suit in the High Court seeking to stop the Treasury and power producers from passing on to consumers any costs associated with 20 power projects he claims are unwarranted.
Mr Mboya claims that the estimated charge of about Sh100 billion annual payments, to be passed on to the consumers, are in disregard to the rights of electricity consumers and taxpayers and should be stopped.
The lawyer, who has been championing electricity consumers’ rights, argues that the Treasury secretary has prepared a Budget Policy Statement on Creating Jobs, Transforming Lives as part of “The Big Four” plan, with the intention of using taxpayer funds to pay approximately Sh100 billion annually for power projects over a period of 25 years. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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