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Why I support President Uhuru on security
Baratang
#41 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 5:49:30 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
Ngong wrote:
Nandwa wrote:
@ alma Applause Applause Applause

Quote:
IF WE FIX OUR SECURITY ALL OTHER THINGS WILL FALL IN PLACE

Like every other Kenyan I have a passion for a secure and peaceful nation. Like the President I believe that security is a multifaceted sector and requires many approaches and collaboration of many actors including the citizenry.

To be fair Kenyan populace have played their part.
They have paid their taxes. As a matter of fact as a result of the rot in the security sector many Kenyans are no longer enthusiastic to share information.

We have heard many cases of Kenyans reporting criminals only for the officers who should have protected them to betray the informers to the same criminals. We have heard many cases of officers taking bribes in border towns just to let in illegal immigrants carrying all sorts of weapons.

I have listened to many junior officers also complaining that they share information to their seniors only to be punished because the seniors are the collaborators.
We have heard many theories of supremacy battles within the forces and poor coordination stemming from terrible interpersonal relations.

There is a lot to be done in the security sector and it all comes down to LEADERSHIP.

https://www.facebook.com...esimus.murkomen?fref=nf


Just until recently illegal Ethiopians immigrants have been arrested in Nairobi,the last case been an accident on Thika road involving a bunch of them.
Now tell me,Nobody saw them all the way from Ethiopia?
A bunch of them about 30 arrested in Kiambu,my God supposing they are terrorists and descend to the Capital one monday morning? Four were a big mess,30 will be hellSad Sad


@ gong.

Precisely! Kenyans do not care who is right beside them anywhere. If those Ethiopians caused havoc in whichever place, you would see how everybody would be up in arms frothing at the corners of our mouths blaming the forces that be for our own negligence, omisions and sleeplessnesses. We are all too willing to point figures at others for own failures. When are we going to own up to our mistakes and be ready to be corrected??
Baratang
#42 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:02:47 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
freiks wrote:
alma wrote:
Very nice...."discussion". What are you discussing? We know the problem it starts from your point 1


Quote:
1.Socially
(a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody. If a local noticed a neighbour who was hardly seen he/she reported it to the nearest police station and Immigration and the two bodies immediately swung into action.


What we are trying to tell this selfie and hashtag gov't is that your points other points will never work until point 1(a) is implemented.

That is Uhurus work.

Even yesterday Bellow Kerrow was adamant that as long as the police and security don't seem to respond, no amount of speeches and social re-engineering will work.

So lets start the "discussion" with point 1 (a)

How do I implement that one given that I'm a simple citizen?

Time to reflect with or without helmet, police dont respond without getting kitu kidogo from you, has this started 1 year ago?. We always complain that the police sent kurutus to kapendo, first how were they recruited(HIGHEST BINDER)
How am I as a citizen do to prevent this......A BIG NOTHING, just watch and give the tithe to police and implementing officers.
Then as president stated it has to start with me and stop the trend, the much we do as citizens let us implement it in all spheres of live.
We started the #alcoholblow watch, let us start a #citizenwatch and see our security improve. Nyumba kumi for those who have been in rwanda knows its one way we can work to improve our security


Thank you @freiks! Have we ever said that enough is enough, we will not pay bribes anymore?? No!! What would happen if we all decided not to bribe? Does it mean the policemen/women and other public servants would not work as required in their terms of engagement??
I have read so many posts here in wazua where people glorify the giving of bribe as "kujichanua" once you are nabbed being on the wrong side of the law. How does that help to make the system any better??

It is amusing to learn that when the alcoholblow was first introduced @alma was the first to go to court to challenge it.
Baratang
#43 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:07:09 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
Takeshi wrote:
Nandwa wrote:
@ alma Applause Applause Applause

Quote:
IF WE FIX OUR SECURITY ALL OTHER THINGS WILL FALL IN PLACE

Like every other Kenyan I have a passion for a secure and peaceful nation. Like the President I believe that security is a multifaceted sector and requires many approaches and collaboration of many actors including the citizenry.

To be fair Kenyan populace have played their part.
They have paid their taxes. As a matter of fact as a result of the rot in the security sector many Kenyans are no longer enthusiastic to share information.

we have heard many cases of Kenyans reporting criminals only for the officers who should have protected them to betray the informers to the same criminals. We have heard many cases of officers taking bribes in border towns just to let in illegal immigrants carrying all sorts of weapons.

I have listened to many junior officers also complaining that they share information to their seniors only to be punished because the seniors are the collaborators.
We have heard many theories of supremacy battles within the forces and poor coordination stemming from terrible interpersonal relations.
[/color]


There is a lot to be done in the security sector and it all comes down to LEADERSHIP.

https://www.facebook.com...esimus.murkomen?fref=nf


baratang...good insights, but unlike botswana , above is one of our many problems here in kenya
......too much love for money, corruption is killing us!.!!....it has gotten to the extent that corruption is part of our culture, left right and centre.


Very true. But the bribe giver is the actual enemy within and the one big single threat to the innocent Kenyans.
Baratang
#44 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:27:19 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
Angelica _ann wrote:
All the components of Botwana situation are good but the governament MUST put an enable environment in place. Most of the aspects aslo involve the gava security agencies being upto standards!


When the new constitution was introduced we did away with the most effective provincial administration and we were very happy about it.
We scorned Kibaki for wanting to reintroduce it but we all had harsh words for him, so he only managed the County Commissioners (which had also been challenged in court over its legitimacy).
Moi got all the intelligence from grassroots every day using the PA and during its existence, we did not hear of much terrorist activities in Kenya, true or false? The remnants of the PA were stripped off all their duties as security agents and reassigned.

By the way even Botswana has a security detail similar to the provincial administration. The Directorate of Intelligence Services is so strong and they are mandated to arrest you if they perceive you to be a threat to the national security. The Directorate of Corruption and Economic Crimes (DCEC) (whose parallel body in Kenya is Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC)) is also mandated to arrest you if they investigate and find that you were involved in corrupt dealings.
Baratang
#45 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:00:21 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Baratang wrote:
Hi members.

I listened to the presidents speech on security and after deep thought I realised he knew what he was talking about. Although at some point he was angry he was right.

The reason why I am saying this is because i have seen what he is advising working elsewhere. Let me be specific.

I first set my foot in Botswana in 1986, during which time I was a very young man but adventurous, stayed until the year 2009 when I decided to come back to Kenya.

For all those years that I stayed in Botswana, the presidents Masire, Mogae and even Ian Khama rarely talked about security within and at the borders.

You see in the late 80s and early 90s, the political situation in Southern Africa was chaotic, South Africa was not good due to the apertheid regime and freedom struggle, in Namibia as people were fighting for independence and in Angola as the civil war ranged. In all the cases freedom fighters and other people were crossing over to Botswana as it was seen to be the safest. In early to mid 90s things in Zimbabwe started moving from worse to worst and the result more immigrants to Botswana.

All in all more than a half a million emigrants crossed over to Botswana through the gazetted border points and others unaccounted for through panya routes, but how did Botswana manage to maintain the safety of its citizen despite that huge number of foreigners/immigrants influx and being a country surrounded by politically unstable states at the time:

1.Socially
(a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody. If a local noticed a neighbour who was hardly seen he/she reported it to the nearest police station and Immigration and the two bodies immediately swung into action.

(b) It was in law that each and every plot Land Registration (LR) No be conspicuously displayed at the point of entry (gates or doors). When you filled any forms be it employment, utilities or any other application forms the most important social data was your name and physical address (residential LR No, the Road and estate). The landlords were required by the law to keep a database on their foreigner tenants and were required to share it with the immigration. This way the government knew who was staying where and when they needed you they came for you at any time.

(c) If foreigners sought asylum as refugees then they remained in the refugee camp, no mingling with other people. If you were caught, and it was established that you have refugee status, repatriation right away.

(d) The Batswana fear and respect the law. It spares no one, not the rich, not the poor, not the mighty. It was applied equally to all irrespective of their social status.

(e) Botswana was and is still the least corrupt country in Africa. When it came to getting services which you needed by right, nobody claimed to be doing you any favour and everybody kept off from corruption. Under such circumstances, they ran a very efficient impartial public service and police force.

2. Commercially...
(a) A local could and would not sell any land or property to a foreigner. No law prohibited them from doing it, but this intention was to keep foreigners from owning anything in that country and consequently keeping them at bay.

(b) Any company that intended to buy any property had to have a majority stake owned by citizens. NB majority shareholder meant more than 70%.

(c) The labour laws were and are still very strict. No company irrespective of the owners (whether foreign or locally owned) was allowed to employ foreigners in posts whose job skills and expertise was locally available.

If we draw political paralells between Kenya and Botswana we have almost everything in common. I know most of us will still argue that our social structures are completely different but when it comes to matters security this goes beyond social structures. Security is a collective effort and responsibility between the citizenry and the government.

Let us sit back as Kenyans and do a little reflection. Socially and commercially, where have we succeeded in assisting the government of the day to give us the security that we need.

Let us discuss this objectively and soberly.


Since I don't expect any Kenyan to spend so much time writing the bull I am reading above, my conclusion is that you are a hired pen. Hope you got well paid.


@Obi A great attitude that one is. A similar one which you had when your president ran a whole paid up advert on security on the local TV stations for almost an entire month and people did not quite get it. very pitiful indeed.
Baratang
#46 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:03:53 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
alma wrote:
Aiii Obi 1, feel sorry for the guy. They spent the whole night coming up with hashtags and talking points. Hawajalala kuwa na huruma.

Kularaha, Swenani, Am is not a psychophant. He just feels the need to mention RAO even when he's peeing. I hear its an urge that's very hard to get rid off.


Dont be sorry for me. Feel sorry for yourself. You have eyes but you don't see and you have ears but you don't hear.
mwariama
#47 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:19:09 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 10/22/2010
Posts: 40
Location: kenya
@ Baratang,

You've missed the point by a mile, blaming the victims.......

How are you supposed not to bribe a policeman/woman who is threatening to arrest you on trumped up charges?
At what point should I care to report 30 illegal immigrants that are next to me? They've travelled hundreds of kilometers from the border with ''numerous checkpoints'' manned by "competent" government officials. As a citizen, I assume the government system is working and they've been allowed in the country and go on with my work... The problem is the system and not the people. It's the government's work to sort out the systematic problems!

Well, if you want to blame the people, do it on the grounds that they deserve what they get for voting for their failing leaders. The more you're engaging in blaming the citizens, the more you're exposing the government massive shortcomings!!!


I'm suspecting,as someone has said, PSCU have brought their PR war machine to the Republic.....


Baratang
#48 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 8:11:46 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
mwariama wrote:
@ Baratang,

You've missed the point by a mile, blaming the victims.......

How are you supposed not to bribe a policeman/woman who is threatening to arrest you on trumped up charges?
At what point should I care to report 30 illegal immigrants that are next to me? They've travelled hundreds of kilometers from the border with ''numerous checkpoints'' manned by "competent" government officials. As a citizen, I assume the government system is working and they've been allowed in the country and go on with my work... The problem is the system and not the people. It's the government's work to sort out the systematic problems!

Well, if you want to blame the people, do it on the grounds that they deserve what they get for voting for their failing leaders. The more you're engaging in blaming the citizens, the more you're exposing the government massive shortcomings!!!


I'm suspecting,as someone has said, PSCU have brought their PR war machine to the Republic.....




@ Mwariama

You see friend I do not belong to any political divide and neither do I intend be in anybodies payroll.
Like I suggested before, that we look at what we as citizen have done to assist the government of the day, I still maintain that.

For example, this is what I thought would be coming out:

1 Socially

(a) The citizen responsibility. A local had to know who the neighbour was with no reminder from anybody...We are even opposing the Nyumba Kumi model...Kenyan Rating Failed

(b) It was in law that each and every plot Land Registration (LR) No be conspicuously displayed at the point of entry (gates or doors). I think we have this one here too..Kenyan Rating Failed

(c) If foreigners sought asylum as refugees then they remained in the refugee camp...We can't even question the landlord on why they are bringing people of questionable characters to our midst...Kenyan Rating Failed

(d) The Batswana fear and respect the law. It spares no one, not the rich, not the poor, not the mighty.We have good laws on paper, but we do not respect them...Kenyan Rating Failed.

(e) Botswana was and is still the least corrupt country in Africa. Corruption is the in thing and in most cases we offer the bribes before it is even asked for. Kenyan Rating Failed.

2. Commercially...
(a) A local could and would not sell any land or property to a foreigner. We have sold land to foreigners at double the value...Kenyan Rating Failed.

(b) Any company that intended to buy any property had to have a majority stake owned by citizens. NB majority shareholder meant more than 70%...Kenyan Rating Failed

(c) The labour laws were and are still very strict. No company irrespective of the owners (whether foreign or locally owned) was allowed to employ foreigners in posts whose job skills and expertise was locally available. We have foreigners who can't even read becoming managers. Kenyan Rating Failed

Guys we were only supposed to highlight our (citizens) successes and failures on matters security and not a blame game, just like the one we are used to.

Before I am branded a state house PR machinery for real I am jumping out the ship. Muelewane msielewane, shauri yenu, but one thing is for real and a fact...that we are being screwed by people who are amongst us (and we know them) whom we are offering protection and whom we are not willing to report to the authorities.
sparkly
#49 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 9:22:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Who are Uhuru's advisors? The Nation needs a scapegoat, someone to take the fall. Things will not cool down until someone is fired. If Ndengu cares for his boss, he should resign in exchange for an alternative job.
Life is short. Live passionately.
ecstacy
#50 Posted : Sunday, November 30, 2014 9:49:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Chuck Hagel was made scapegoat for Obama's policy failures in dealing with ISIS. He resigned in the past week.

In Kenya, UK should simply ask Deputy President Ruto to go do an in-house in URP and offer 2 capable replacements for the besieged CS and IG.
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