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KQ orderd to reinstate sacked workers!!!
maka
#41 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 2:24:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
maka wrote:
sparkly wrote:
McReggae wrote:
The industrial court has ordered KQ to reinstate the over 400 sacked workers by tommorrow!!!


What is this?

A tribunal cannot force parties into an employer/ employee relationship. KQ needs to move to the High Court pronto.

...Place a wager,the high court will still uphold the ruling this guys were given a legal opinion by some law firm they chose to ignore the whole thing and did it how they deemed fit according to them,the only solution....swallow your pride and do it as the court has directed...who should be blamed?A statement I came across 'ignorance is not, and never will be,
a defence – CEOs will be judged not on what they know, but on what they should have known'


@Maka there is a serious error of law here. It is a well accepted principle under the common law that an employer/ employee relationship cannot be compelled, otherwise we will have something akin to sanctioned slavery.

The most that a court can order is that employees be dismissed proceduraly and they be paid their dues in full.

...@sparkly Art.162 (2) of the Constitution of Kenya 2010 forms the platform upon which the Industrial Court derives its mandate. The Industrial Court has exclusive original and appellate jurisdiction to hear labour and employment matters.With the power donated to it under this provison and also taking into account the jurisdiction conferred by Section 12 of Act 20 of 2011 i.e.The Industrial Court Act and in particular Section 12 (3) (vii) the Industrial court has power to reinstate an employee within 3 years of dismissal subject to such conditions as it may impose.This is the provison that Judge Riika rightly used to reinstate the KQ staff. The argument that an employer cant be compelled to take up an employee is thus fallacious and is not backed by law...in addition to that common law cannot supersede substantive procedural law.
possunt quia posse videntur
dunkang
#42 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:59:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,824
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
NAIKUNI MUST GO

http://www.nation.co.ke/...2/-/10u53bp/-/index.html
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

Swavvy
#43 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:14:50 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/30/2008
Posts: 8
Two comments from me for those who think that this ruling is even executable:
1. Has the court also given the staff the flight schedules they are on to make it a reality. In my opinion this staff will never see the inside of a plane as staff again... deal with it.
2. For all contracts, they have an exit clause (for your information employment is a contract unless the KQ staff con confirm otherwise) and if this is breached then all one is entitled to is the exit payments and damages not forceful reinstatement....lol...kweli we have quaks in the Industrial courtShame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you
nakujua
#44 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:34:56 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Swavvy wrote:
Two comments from me for those who think that this ruling is even executable:
1. Has the court also given the staff the flight schedules they are on to make it a reality. In my opinion this staff will never see the inside of a plane as staff again... deal with it.
2. For all contracts, they have an exit clause (for your information employment is a contract unless the KQ staff con confirm otherwise) and if this is breached then all one is entitled to is the exit payments and damages not forceful reinstatement....lol...kweli we have quaks in the Industrial courtShame on you Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you


go to a quiet place and read through your comment several times
sparkly
#45 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:38:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
maka wrote:
sparkly wrote:
maka wrote:
sparkly wrote:
McReggae wrote:
The industrial court has ordered KQ to reinstate the over 400 sacked workers by tommorrow!!!


What is this?

A tribunal cannot force parties into an employer/ employee relationship. KQ needs to move to the High Court pronto.

...Place a wager,the high court will still uphold the ruling this guys were given a legal opinion by some law firm they chose to ignore the whole thing and did it how they deemed fit according to them,the only solution....swallow your pride and do it as the court has directed...who should be blamed?A statement I came across 'ignorance is not, and never will be,
a defence – CEOs will be judged not on what they know, but on what they should have known'


@Maka there is a serious error of law here. It is a well accepted principle under the common law that an employer/ employee relationship cannot be compelled, otherwise we will have something akin to sanctioned slavery.

The most that a court can order is that employees be dismissed proceduraly and they be paid their dues in full.

...@sparkly Art.162 (2) of the Constitution of Kenya 2010 forms the platform upon which the Industrial Court derives its mandate. The Industrial Court has exclusive original and appellate jurisdiction to hear labour and employment matters.With the power donated to it under this provison and also taking into account the jurisdiction conferred by Section 12 of Act 20 of 2011 i.e.The Industrial Court Act and in particular Section 12 (3) (vii) the Industrial court has power to reinstate an employee within 3 years of dismissal subject to such conditions as it may impose.This is the provison that Judge Riika rightly used to reinstate the KQ staff. The argument that an employer cant be compelled to take up an employee is thus fallacious and is not backed by law...in addition to that common law cannot supersede substantive procedural law.


@Maka sawa, i have taken judicial notice of those laws.

Where does KQ's right to appeal lie?

Am getting out of this flying monkey of a share Sickamp; Sickamp;
Life is short. Live passionately.
maka
#46 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 5:20:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
maka wrote:
sparkly wrote:
maka wrote:
sparkly wrote:
McReggae wrote:
The industrial court has ordered KQ to reinstate the over 400 sacked workers by tommorrow!!!


What is this?

A tribunal cannot force parties into an employer/ employee relationship. KQ needs to move to the High Court pronto.

...Place a wager,the high court will still uphold the ruling this guys were given a legal opinion by some law firm they chose to ignore the whole thing and did it how they deemed fit according to them,the only solution....swallow your pride and do it as the court has directed...who should be blamed?A statement I came across 'ignorance is not, and never will be,
a defence – CEOs will be judged not on what they know, but on what they should have known'


@Maka there is a serious error of law here. It is a well accepted principle under the common law that an employer/ employee relationship cannot be compelled, otherwise we will have something akin to sanctioned slavery.

The most that a court can order is that employees be dismissed proceduraly and they be paid their dues in full.

...@sparkly Art.162 (2) of the Constitution of Kenya 2010 forms the platform upon which the Industrial Court derives its mandate. The Industrial Court has exclusive original and appellate jurisdiction to hear labour and employment matters.With the power donated to it under this provison and also taking into account the jurisdiction conferred by Section 12 of Act 20 of 2011 i.e.The Industrial Court Act and in particular Section 12 (3) (vii) the Industrial court has power to reinstate an employee within 3 years of dismissal subject to such conditions as it may impose.This is the provison that Judge Riika rightly used to reinstate the KQ staff. The argument that an employer cant be compelled to take up an employee is thus fallacious and is not backed by law...in addition to that common law cannot supersede substantive procedural law.


@Maka sawa, i have taken judicial notice of those laws.

Where does KQ's right to appeal lie?

Am getting out of this flying monkey of a share Sickamp; Sickamp;

...KQ can obtain a stay of the order under the Appellate Jurisdiction Act CAP 9 Section 3 and rule 5 (2) (b) of the Court of Appeal rules
possunt quia posse videntur
Drobos fly
#47 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:12:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/24/2012
Posts: 331
Location: Vantage point
There is a probability that the tables will turn when KQ appeals. That judgement by the industrial court seems populist under some kind of political pressure, but lets wait and see.
dunkang
#48 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:21:15 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,824
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
Drobos fly wrote:
There is a probability that the tables will turn when KQ appeals. That judgement by the industrial court seems populist under some kind of political pressure, but lets wait and see.


KQ has already commited itself to accepting the staff already. They have already handed letters asking the workers to go on leave so as they can rearrange themselves to accomodate them. The union has rejected this though.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

Drobos fly
#49 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:42:54 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/24/2012
Posts: 331
Location: Vantage point
dunkang wrote:

KQ has already commited itself to accepting the staff already. They have already handed letters asking the workers to go on leave so as they can rearrange themselves to accomodate them. The union has rejected this though.


This is a chess game KQ is playing. Their vacant positions were filled by foreigners. Remember what happened when Telkom was being taken over by Orange? Most professional personnel were given jobs they didn't want in short raw deals at the same salary. I wouldn't even want to go back to a place am not wanted, the best thing is just to move on.
dunkang
#50 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:09:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,824
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
Drobos fly wrote:
dunkang wrote:

KQ has already commited itself to accepting the staff already. They have already handed letters asking the workers to go on leave so as they can rearrange themselves to accomodate them. The union has rejected this though.


This is a chess game KQ is playing. Their vacant positions were filled by foreigners. Remember what happened when Telkom was being taken over by Orange? Most professional personnel were given jobs they didn't want in short raw deals at the same salary. I wouldn't even want to go back to a place am not wanted, the best thing is just to move on.


@Drobos, i feel your pain but KQ can't win this case at all. Naikuni was misadviced by the company secretary big time. Mistreatment of the employees will lead to further loses for KQ. It should focus now on making use of the huge workforce.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

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