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Thomas Sankara
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kaka2za
#41 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 9:24:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
people miss the point when it comes to parties, democracy e.t.c. they are means to an end. sisi hapa we are so focused on the means to care about the end.


To what end are democracy, parties and the like? Means and ends are distortions of 'reality'.

they are all attempts at getting at a better life. better healthcare so that us as sentient beings can get the most out of our lives. better food security. freedom to be whomever you want to be amoungst other things. that is our aspiration.


I think that's a difficult position to defend. Let's start here, how can we know that a social condition can actually get better?


Humans are driven by greed and self preservation.The attempt to socialize is also selfish the real reason is to deceive and buy peace.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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tycho
#42 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 9:46:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
people miss the point when it comes to parties, democracy e.t.c. they are means to an end. sisi hapa we are so focused on the means to care about the end.


To what end are democracy, parties and the like? Means and ends are distortions of 'reality'.

they are all attempts at getting at a better life. better healthcare so that us as sentient beings can get the most out of our lives. better food security. freedom to be whomever you want to be amoungst other things. that is our aspiration.


I think that's a difficult position to defend. Let's start here, how can we know that a social condition can actually get better?


Humans are driven by greed and self preservation.The attempt to socialize is also selfish the real reason is to deceive and buy peace.


I wouldn't say that this is true for all humans at all times and situations. I know of at least one exceptional situation that can still have socialization and even government without being all selfishness.
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Alba
#43 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 12:32:02 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
kaka2za wrote:




He trusted Compaore. I respect activists,in fact I have been in the trenches myself
Sankara was not an activist, he was the President. With more objectivism he would have held longer and Burkinabes would be a happier lot.
None of the names you have mentioned had real power like Sankara.



There is no evidence that he trusted Compaore. The fact that he appointed someone does not mean he trusted him. Does Uhuru fully trust Ruto? No. But he has no choice but to appoint him VP.
Did Obama fully trust Hillary Clinton when he appojnted her as Minister of State? No
In politics you have no choice but to do business with people you may or may not trust.

I am not sure what you mean by "more objectivism"
Sankara was killed at the behest of the French and possibly Hophouet Boigny because he was getting in the way of French interests. This is how the French used to do business in Africa. Either you let them pillage your resources or they stage a coup and throw you out.

Please please read your history. Google is your friend.
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masukuma
#44 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 8:16:36 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
why are we engaging in guesswork? throwing counterfactuals at each other which do nothing to change history. this thread and possibly 3 others are tributes to the 4 years Thomas Sankara had on the helm. When he died people cried... that must have counted for something. Did women love this reign? yes!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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AlphDoti
#45 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 8:33:04 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Alba wrote:
kaka2za wrote:

He trusted Compaore. I respect activists,in fact I have been in the trenches myself
Sankara was not an activist, he was the President. With more objectivism he would have held longer and Burkinabes would be a happier lot.
None of the names you have mentioned had real power like Sankara.

There is no evidence that he trusted Compaore. The fact that he appointed someone does not mean he trusted him. Does Uhuru fully trust Ruto? No. But he has no choice but to appoint him VP.
Did Obama fully trust Hillary Clinton when he appojnted her as Minister of State? No
In politics you have no choice but to do business with people you may or may not trust.

I am not sure what you mean by "more objectivism"
Sankara was killed at the behest of the French and possibly Hophouet Boigny because he was getting in the way of French interests. This is how the French used to do business in Africa. Either you let them pillage your resources or they stage a coup and throw you out.

Please please read your history. Google is your friend.

@kaka maybe we're missing your point, but you sound like you've not read about Sankara. I think you're talking about normal political games. At least read about this man first, i recommend a short documentary below "Sankara - The Upright Man"
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, October 20, 2014 8:39 AM | Reason: Not specified
kaka2za
#46 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 12:55:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
@alphadoti and alba I used to adore Sankara in my younger days and I have read extensively about him. His problem is that he thought people would like him because he had good intentions. He used to ride in the streets of Bamako with minimal security and the boys who killed him had a very easy time.
The point I have been trying to express albeit with little success ,is that you have to preserve yourself first in order to protect others. Moi learnt this in early 1980s . A living Sankara would have brought more success to B.Fasso. Unfortunately guys who know this like Alhaji Yahya Jammeh are not as good as Sankara.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:10 PM | Reason: Not specified
tycho
#47 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 1:24:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
why are we engaging in guesswork? throwing counterfactuals at each other which do nothing to change history. this thread and possibly 3 others are tributes to the 4 years Thomas Sankara had on the helm. When he died people cried... that must have counted for something. Did women love this reign? yes!


A lovable leader isn't necessarily a great or even effective leader. History is always being changed, and guess work is sometimes a valid method for finding truth.
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kaka2za
#48 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 1:37:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
why are we engaging in guesswork? throwing counterfactuals at each other which do nothing to change history. this thread and possibly 3 others are tributes to the 4 years Thomas Sankara had on the helm. When he died people cried... that must have counted for something. Did women love this reign? yes!


A lovable leader isn't necessarily a great or even effective leader. History is always being changed, and guess work is sometimes a valid method for finding truth.


Tell them! Say it again @Tycho. History depends on who writes it( usually the victor) and includes his perceptions,opinions and assumptions .
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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masukuma
#49 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 11:17:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
why are we engaging in guesswork? throwing counterfactuals at each other which do nothing to change history. this thread and possibly 3 others are tributes to the 4 years Thomas Sankara had on the helm. When he died people cried... that must have counted for something. Did women love this reign? yes!


A lovable leader isn't necessarily a great or even effective leader. History is always being changed, and guess work is sometimes a valid method for finding truth.

find truth in of something that is living and not guessing what would have happened and holding a position that is judgemental based on future sin that you think would have been committed - this is not the minority report.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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tycho
#50 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 11:49:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
why are we engaging in guesswork? throwing counterfactuals at each other which do nothing to change history. this thread and possibly 3 others are tributes to the 4 years Thomas Sankara had on the helm. When he died people cried... that must have counted for something. Did women love this reign? yes!


A lovable leader isn't necessarily a great or even effective leader. History is always being changed, and guess work is sometimes a valid method for finding truth.

find truth in of something that is living and not guessing what would have happened and holding a position that is judgemental based on future sin that you think would have been committed - this is not the minority report.


In this case, what's living? Or is it, 'who is living'? And if it's about 'now', what can one judge?

'Minority' or 'majority' what's the difference, when it comes to a 'living who' making a judgment?

I respect and admire Sankara for his boldness. He did what he judged to be best, but that's where his-story ends, and mine begins.
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