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#lipakamatender
Much Know
#481 Posted : Sunday, February 19, 2017 4:03:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,579
FRM2011 wrote:

On circumcision, why is it that those who practice it are the most backward, primitive, violent and pure savages.

Think he meant boy as in tom boy! However, one of the most stupid and primitive thinking i have ever met is the EXACT thinking, that you can define a persons propensity to certain behavior via circumcision. INDEED hio ni ujinga, and circumcision cannot define the man.

However, even today, Luos are almost 50% circumcised you will be surprised, why? It's has scientific benefits, even Raila knows this and has been promoting this, there have been reports in the press, so if someone is foolish enough to think i can make 'cheeky' presumptions about circumcision, that one don't know our culture. The insults you have hurled at Uhuru, you don't know your culture Shame on you
Ras Kienyeji Man
murchr
#482 Posted : Sunday, February 19, 2017 6:19:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Kihii means boy so stop frothing over your mouths over a non issue.

@alma - No one says that health facilities in Kenya are perfect. Moi's 24 years of neglect is evident, however most of what we call level 5 was built by the colonial govt.

Like you, I come from a family of doctors and other health care officials. Infact I grew up in "Kambi" (hospital quarters). GOK hospitals had all these machines you see them restocking now. We used to play hide and seek outside those unused wards as we'd see those MRI machines and think thats what would fufua guys on their death beds. Slowly, guys would come pick the machine one by one until there was nothing. Si mliona Chuka an Anaesthesia Machine was stolen, the habit is still rife It is for this particular reason that I support counties running hospitals. Everyone should account for what they own.

As for Kihii

Quote:
Why buy expensive icu equipment, mri machines and put them in district hospitals with non existent biomedical technical department, non existent mri technicians, non existent radiologists to read the mri films. Non existent icu trained doctors and nurses. Non existent renal physicians but the dialysis equipment is there, rotting away. Just plain putting the cart before the horse, fueled by a healthy dose of kickbacks.


This statement here shows you know nothing about what is going on. 1st these machines are not bought, they are leased. This is the practice everywhere allover the world. When you lease the machine, the owner is the one who services it. If it is completely broken down, the owner - in this case GE will come pick it and replace it. The good thing with this arrangement is, hospitals will not have to employ engineers and such like people but concentrate on their core mandate.

@Dahatre Nani alikuambia Medicare and Medicaid is free? Soma hii you get educated - https://www.medicare.gov...s-a-and-b-premiums.html

We have payscales yes but why should a doctor on grade A - forexample get an increase and not that agricultural officer? This is not to say doctors are not paid higher in those pay scales.

Even in Sweden, healthcare is not entirely free. The patient pays up to a certain amount and the rest the govt pays. It will be inevitable that we all pay for medical care. So now, which version of health care do we want....a normalized Scandinavian way where the pay of the doc is not so much different from the one of a driver, or the capitalistic way?


BTW alma, on docs and nurses going out there.

Should the GOK subsidize medical education only for these people to go work out there and not pay taxes?

Scrap those subsidies, let these people get loans from Helb, pay up then go else where. Your tax money will have served you better that way.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Dahatre
#483 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2017 9:18:59 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 602
murchr wrote:

@Dahatre Nani alikuambia Medicare and Medicaid is free? Soma hii you get educated - https://www.medicare.gov...s-a-and-b-premiums.html

Wacha kizungu mingi and read my response again. I said those who can afford health care, subsidize those who cannot through their taxes or insurance premiums. A subsidized service is by definition not free. However, most health care subsidies are progressive, so that the very poor pay little or nothing if they meet the definitions of poverty like these ones for Medicaid/medicare:
http://obamacarefacts.com/2016-2017-federal-poverty-guidelines/

Under this model, the poorer your population, the higher the number of people who will pay nothing for health care.


We have payscales yes but why should a doctor on grade A - forexample get an increase and not that agricultural officer? This is not to say doctors are not paid higher in those pay scales.

Why not if the government is competing with private hospitals for a scarce resource-i.e not enough doctors?

.... It will be inevitable that we all pay for medical care. So now, which version of health care do we want....a normalized Scandinavian way where the pay of the doc is not so much different from the one of a driver, or the capitalistic way?

This is the issue at hand and it is the one the doctors strike is forcing the government/us to decide-and for this reason, their strike is a good thing.

hardwood
#484 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2017 9:44:57 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Meanwhile, lecturers are on strike and the govt has offered them 3% pay rise ie 91k for lowest paid while highest paid professor will get 245k.

http://www.capitalfm.co....grams-public-varsities/

Compare that for doctors 40% payrise pushing starting pay at 200k and highest being 500k. How can those who teach the doctors and are more qualified with PhDs etc earn half what their students get.
maka
#485 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2017 9:55:02 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
Meanwhile, lecturers are on strike and the govt has offered them 3% pay rise ie 91k for lowest paid while highest paid professor will get 245k.

http://www.capitalfm.co....grams-public-varsities/

Compare that for doctors 40% payrise pushing starting pay at 200k and highest being 500k. How can those who teach the doctors and are more qualified with PhDs etc earn half what their students get.


http://www.the-star.co.k...e-pay-increase_c1509375
possunt quia posse videntur
murchr
#486 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2017 2:39:56 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Dahatre wrote:
murchr wrote:

@Dahatre Nani alikuambia Medicare and Medicaid is free? Soma hii you get educated - https://www.medicare.gov...s-a-and-b-premiums.html

Wacha kizungu mingi and read my response again. I said those who can afford health care, subsidize those who cannot through their taxes or insurance premiums. A subsidized service is by definition not free. However, most health care subsidies are progressive, so that the very poor pay little or nothing if they meet the definitions of poverty like these ones for Medicaid/medicare:
http://obamacarefacts.com/2016-2017-federal-poverty-guidelines/

Under this model, the poorer your population, the higher the number of people who will pay nothing for health care.


We have payscales yes but why should a doctor on grade A - forexample get an increase and not that agricultural officer? This is not to say doctors are not paid higher in those pay scales.

Why not if the government is competing with private hospitals for a scarce resource-i.e not enough doctors?

.... It will be inevitable that we all pay for medical care. So now, which version of health care do we want....a normalized Scandinavian way where the pay of the doc is not so much different from the one of a driver, or the capitalistic way?

This is the issue at hand and it is the one the doctors strike is forcing the government/us to decide-and for this reason, their strike is a good thing.



Dahatre Quit talking about the American health system. The main reason Trump is in the White house is because of Obama Care. It is very expensive to many esp the healthy, and not cheap to those sickly and poor.

Obama care is some kind of market place like amazon where you purchase some insurance from private companies at different rates depending on your income. Nothing is free.

Doctors are not forcing the govt to choose anything. They want all the money allocated to health. Plus, you as the taxpayer should continue sponsoring their education. The govt has chosen - to provide drugs through KEMSA and lease machines. Your governor and his cabinet will choose how they use their budget allocation.

About scarcity, doctors see patients referred to them by clinical officers. And that is everywhere in private and public hospitals. Most outpatients are treated by COs.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
masukuma
#487 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2017 3:15:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
Meanwhile, lecturers are on strike and the govt has offered them 3% pay rise ie 91k for lowest paid while highest paid professor will get 245k.

http://www.capitalfm.co....grams-public-varsities/

Compare that for doctors 40% payrise pushing starting pay at 200k and highest being 500k. How can those who teach the doctors and are more qualified with PhDs etc earn half what their students get.

ukitaka pesa enda juakali... toka shule! ama ukule zote mbili! you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate! for lecturers your negotiating chips are students in colleges. for doctors in Kenyatta - your chips are voters! i find it rather strange that instead of luring the doctors Moi style - you seek to discredit them... to what end? let's assume you manage to turn everyone against doctors... HALAFU? these are people who were willing to go to jail! they are also people who have savings that can last them till August... Will you survive until August? I don't get this reactionary strategy! Don't REACT... RESPOND!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tom_boy
#488 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2017 5:57:04 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
maka wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Meanwhile, lecturers are on strike and the govt has offered them 3% pay rise ie 91k for lowest paid while highest paid professor will get 245k.

http://www.capitalfm.co....grams-public-varsities/

Compare that for doctors 40% payrise pushing starting pay at 200k and highest being 500k. How can those who teach the doctors and are more qualified with PhDs etc earn half what their students get.


http://www.the-star.co.k...e-pay-increase_c1509375


As you can see, sio eti ni pesa hakuna. Ni lack of leadership, lack of direction na self interest at the top.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Dahatre
#489 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2017 10:51:04 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 602
murchr wrote:

Dahatre Quit talking about the American health system. The main reason Trump is in the White house is because of Obama Care. It is very expensive to many esp the healthy, and not cheap to those sickly and poor.

Obama care is some kind of market place like amazon where you purchase some insurance from private companies at different rates depending on your income. Nothing is free.

Doctors are not forcing the govt to choose anything. They want all the money allocated to health. Plus, you as the taxpayer should continue sponsoring their education. The govt has chosen - to provide drugs through KEMSA and lease machines. Your governor and his cabinet will choose how they use their budget allocation.

About scarcity, doctors see patients referred to them by clinical officers. And that is everywhere in private and public hospitals. Most outpatients are treated by COs.


For the record, I prefer the Cuban model of health care for a country like ours. Failing that, I say we try something closer to the European social democracies. I just do not think critical services like health and education ought to be subject to capitalist greed.

I have been discussing the American model to show what will happen if we go with the privatized model you and our lenders are proposing. If we privatize we will be closer to the American model, minus the high salaries for the docs. Our taxes will go to middlemen that “invest” in hospitals/clinics, with rationed or non-existent services to the poor. Those who can afford care will pay through the roof, in addition to taxes.

And FYI, Trump did not win because of Obamacare. Trump is meant to entertain us while the GOP scraps Obamacare. Obamacare needs to go because it is keeping money out of the pockets of private health entities that are salivating after the Medicaid/medicare kitty which is very large.
murchr
#490 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2017 12:13:47 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Dahatre wrote:
murchr wrote:

Dahatre Quit talking about the American health system. The main reason Trump is in the White house is because of Obama Care. It is very expensive to many esp the healthy, and not cheap to those sickly and poor.

Obama care is some kind of market place like amazon where you purchase some insurance from private companies at different rates depending on your income. Nothing is free.

Doctors are not forcing the govt to choose anything. They want all the money allocated to health. Plus, you as the taxpayer should continue sponsoring their education. The govt has chosen - to provide drugs through KEMSA and lease machines. Your governor and his cabinet will choose how they use their budget allocation.

About scarcity, doctors see patients referred to them by clinical officers. And that is everywhere in private and public hospitals. Most outpatients are treated by COs.


For the record, I prefer the Cuban model of health care for a country like ours. How much do Cuban doctors earn? Failing that, I say we try something closer to the European social democracies. I just do not think critical services like health and education ought to be subject to capitalist greed. When you strike for 150 300% salary increments you are as capitalistic as you can get

I have been discussing the American model to show what will happen if we go with the privatized model you and our lenders are proposing. If we privatize we will be closer to the American model, minus the high salaries for the docs. Our taxes will go to middlemen that “invest” in hospitals/clinics, with rationed or non-existent services to the poor. Those who can afford care will pay through the roof, in addition to taxes.

And FYI, Trump did not win because of Obamacare. Trump is meant to entertain us while the GOP scraps Obamacare. Obamacare needs to go because it is keeping money out of the pockets of private health entities that are salivating after the Medicaid/medicare kitty which is very large.


You dont know what you are talking about This headline on Nov 1 hurt Hillary the most: Obamacare prices are rising dramatically
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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