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Garissa university attack.
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:alma wrote:
Please Muriel if you say that a Christian who burns babies in a Church is reformed therein lie the goggles.
Which is this "reformed" religion you are talking about? The Jewish one in which children are bombed just because 2 Jews were shot at? Or the Islamic one in which 200 kids are killed just because some guy was killed in Somali? Or are you talking about the Christian one in which the Christian soldier will meet a Muslim woman in Garissa and beat her with nyaunyo's until she cries?
What is this "reformed" religion you are talking about?
You are right about armies and might will never work.
Alma. I thought you were unable to see 'it', it turns out you are just not willing to see 'it'. (a) The ones who burnt babies in a church ,,, they produced an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? (b) The jews who killed children in wherever, they produced an "it is written' from the bible to justify it? Sorry, they use Talmud. (c) The christian soldier who whips a muslim woman, he produces an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? I am saying that everything you see being done in the name of Islam has justification in Qur'an or Hadithi. So when you see a young man shouting 'Allahu Akbar!' then detonates a device killing others innocently minding their own business it is because of his belief primarily then politics, secondarily. Politics is at the center of humanity. Religion is just but a political tool. If that is the case then there is no difference between us and the terrorists because they are acting on their political views just like Kenyans want their political views acted on. Simply put,sore losers with a bigoted hypocritical approach to the laws and beliefs of others,terrorist or otherwise.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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symbols wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:alma wrote:
Please Muriel if you say that a Christian who burns babies in a Church is reformed therein lie the goggles.
Which is this "reformed" religion you are talking about? The Jewish one in which children are bombed just because 2 Jews were shot at? Or the Islamic one in which 200 kids are killed just because some guy was killed in Somali? Or are you talking about the Christian one in which the Christian soldier will meet a Muslim woman in Garissa and beat her with nyaunyo's until she cries?
What is this "reformed" religion you are talking about?
You are right about armies and might will never work.
Alma. I thought you were unable to see 'it', it turns out you are just not willing to see 'it'. (a) The ones who burnt babies in a church ,,, they produced an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? (b) The jews who killed children in wherever, they produced an "it is written' from the bible to justify it? Sorry, they use Talmud. (c) The christian soldier who whips a muslim woman, he produces an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? I am saying that everything you see being done in the name of Islam has justification in Qur'an or Hadithi. So when you see a young man shouting 'Allahu Akbar!' then detonates a device killing others innocently minding their own business it is because of his belief primarily then politics, secondarily. Politics is at the center of humanity. Religion is just but a political tool. If that is the case then there is no difference between us and the terrorists because they are acting on their political views just like Kenyans want their political views acted on. Simply put,sore losers with a bigoted hypocritical approach to the laws and beliefs of others,terrorist or otherwise. True. Politics has so far been modelled on terror. Globally. But terror is no longer useful. Might is no longer right.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:alma wrote:
Please Muriel if you say that a Christian who burns babies in a Church is reformed therein lie the goggles.
Which is this "reformed" religion you are talking about? The Jewish one in which children are bombed just because 2 Jews were shot at? Or the Islamic one in which 200 kids are killed just because some guy was killed in Somali? Or are you talking about the Christian one in which the Christian soldier will meet a Muslim woman in Garissa and beat her with nyaunyo's until she cries?
What is this "reformed" religion you are talking about?
You are right about armies and might will never work.
Alma. I thought you were unable to see 'it', it turns out you are just not willing to see 'it'. (a) The ones who burnt babies in a church ,,, they produced an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? (b) The jews who killed children in wherever, they produced an "it is written' from the bible to justify it? Sorry, they use Talmud. (c) The christian soldier who whips a muslim woman, he produces an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? I am saying that everything you see being done in the name of Islam has justification in Qur'an or Hadithi. So when you see a young man shouting 'Allahu Akbar!' then detonates a device killing others innocently minding their own business it is because of his belief primarily then politics, secondarily. Politics is at the center of humanity. Religion is just but a political tool. If that is the case then there is no difference between us and the terrorists because they are acting on their political views just like Kenyans want their political views acted on. Simply put,sore losers with a bigoted hypocritical approach to the laws and beliefs of others,terrorist or otherwise. True. Politics has so far been modelled on terror. Globally. But terror is no longer useful. Might is no longer right. Yes symbols. As much as that may be unpalatable. The US vs THEM anthem has not worked. The Americans in their wisdom have hoodwinked us with "you are either with us or with them" nonsense. The results have devastated families in Kenya. I believe there's a better way. The way that Jesus would have taken. Al Shabaab is the wrong enemy. Let's look at ourselves first. Because that hongo you gave the cop to let you go at the road block was the same hongo these thugs used to kill 200 kids. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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alma wrote:
Ohhhh Please!
Take that to your church.
We are grown ups here. We know reality.
You are busy "undermining" muslims YET, your so called "christians" do the same shit every day.
My posts are rather clear.
We are fighting the wrong war. I don't think I can be more clear than that. And those that fight the wrong war, are annihilated.
It's not a christian vs muslim war.
We are fighting cessation here.
Tycho has given you referrence. The Al Jazeera video has given you something to think about.
You are still stuck up on stupid things like religion.
Ever since you knew it was a religious war, how many christians have you saved?
Just a question.
I'm saying this without fear and I really don't need anyone's favor.
We need to rethink what this country stands for and can stand for.
Every 10yrs there's a "new idea" taking over our kids.
First it was let's overthrow the gov't, then mwakenya, then mungiki, now al shabaab. the common denominator is young people who feel disenfranchised by their gov't.
You can go to your churches and continue thinking that Mohammed is coming to kill you kesho. That's your problem not mine. And I'd advise you to increase the reach of your friends. Like really search further than your church and clan.
When Americans were killed by these nutcases, they did not go around hating ALL muslims and immigrants. I don't know about you, but I thrived in the same place where some "outsiders" attacked.
Why?
Because there was a common purpose. All were created equal etc etc
Anyone who follows this monster called religion to foster an idea is one of the losers that actually killed these kids.
Tell your pastor I said that.
Corruption is killing this country. Have no doubt about it.
Deal with it. Now.
Otherwise we shall continue of this silly path of sijui Al Shabaab, Mungiki, and even the Indians are creating their own as we speak. It's called never hire a Kenyan as your boss.
Corruption and a basic lack of a common purpose for the guy in Mogotio and the herdsman in Wajir.
Yes, please! I have not saved anybody (because I have not sought out to) and I do my own thinking. I chart my own course and having had some experience with diversionary tactics in discourses, I think I can maintain my course in this one too. You still have not answered my questions. Let me quote for you a verse, an 'it-is-written', for justification for these killings whose counterparts in other thought systems is missing: Quote:2:191-193 - And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun.
Fitna is disbelief, polytheism etc Zalimun is polytheists, wrong doers etc It is their land. Secession, you say. They will drive you out not because they don't like your skin, language, smell, how you vote etc, but because it is a sacred duty for them. It may not be a matter of corruption only. The perpetrator of this latest crime was a son of an administrator - in the Office of the President - whose job, among other things, is to collect intel about such crimes and forward them to the relevant departments within the same office for further action. He did not know. He collected no intel. Was it because he was 'corrupt'?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:alma wrote:
Please Muriel if you say that a Christian who burns babies in a Church is reformed therein lie the goggles.
Which is this "reformed" religion you are talking about? The Jewish one in which children are bombed just because 2 Jews were shot at? Or the Islamic one in which 200 kids are killed just because some guy was killed in Somali? Or are you talking about the Christian one in which the Christian soldier will meet a Muslim woman in Garissa and beat her with nyaunyo's until she cries?
What is this "reformed" religion you are talking about?
You are right about armies and might will never work.
Alma. I thought you were unable to see 'it', it turns out you are just not willing to see 'it'. (a) The ones who burnt babies in a church ,,, they produced an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? (b) The jews who killed children in wherever, they produced an "it is written' from the bible to justify it? Sorry, they use Talmud. (c) The christian soldier who whips a muslim woman, he produces an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? I am saying that everything you see being done in the name of Islam has justification in Qur'an or Hadithi. So when you see a young man shouting 'Allahu Akbar!' then detonates a device killing others innocently minding their own business it is because of his belief primarily then politics, secondarily. Politics is at the center of humanity. Religion is just but a political tool. If that is the case then there is no difference between us and the terrorists because they are acting on their political views just like Kenyans want their political views acted on. Simply put,sore losers with a bigoted hypocritical approach to the laws and beliefs of others,terrorist or otherwise. True. Politics has so far been modelled on terror. Globally. But terror is no longer useful. Might is no longer right. I know that despite this, might is going to get increasing roles to play. If it weren't so we ought to be seeing decreasing use of might.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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Muriel wrote:alma wrote:
Ohhhh Please!
Take that to your church.
We are grown ups here. We know reality.
You are busy "undermining" muslims YET, your so called "christians" do the same shit every day.
My posts are rather clear.
We are fighting the wrong war. I don't think I can be more clear than that. And those that fight the wrong war, are annihilated.
It's not a christian vs muslim war.
We are fighting cessation here.
Tycho has given you referrence. The Al Jazeera video has given you something to think about.
You are still stuck up on stupid things like religion.
Ever since you knew it was a religious war, how many christians have you saved?
Just a question.
I'm saying this without fear and I really don't need anyone's favor.
We need to rethink what this country stands for and can stand for.
Every 10yrs there's a "new idea" taking over our kids.
First it was let's overthrow the gov't, then mwakenya, then mungiki, now al shabaab. the common denominator is young people who feel disenfranchised by their gov't.
You can go to your churches and continue thinking that Mohammed is coming to kill you kesho. That's your problem not mine. And I'd advise you to increase the reach of your friends. Like really search further than your church and clan.
When Americans were killed by these nutcases, they did not go around hating ALL muslims and immigrants. I don't know about you, but I thrived in the same place where some "outsiders" attacked.
Why?
Because there was a common purpose. All were created equal etc etc
Anyone who follows this monster called religion to foster an idea is one of the losers that actually killed these kids.
Tell your pastor I said that.
Corruption is killing this country. Have no doubt about it.
Deal with it. Now.
Otherwise we shall continue of this silly path of sijui Al Shabaab, Mungiki, and even the Indians are creating their own as we speak. It's called never hire a Kenyan as your boss.
Corruption and a basic lack of a common purpose for the guy in Mogotio and the herdsman in Wajir.
Yes, please! I have not saved anybody (because I have not sought out to) and I do my own thinking. I chart my own course and having had some experience with diversionary tactics in discourses, I think I can maintain my course in this one too. You still have not answered my questions. Let me quote for you a verse, an 'it-is-written', for justification for these killings whose counterparts in other thought systems is missing: Quote:2:191-193 - And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun.
Fitna is disbelief, polytheism etc Zalimun is polytheists, wrong doers etc It is their land. Secession, you say. They will drive you out not because they don't like your skin, language, smell, how you vote etc, but because it is a sacred duty for them. It may not be a matter of corruption only. The perpetrator of this latest crime was a son of an administrator - in the Office of the President - whose job, among other things, is to collect intel about such crimes and forward them to the relevant departments within the same office for further action. He did not know. He collected no intel. Was it because he was 'corrupt'? Muriel If you really believe that Muslims did this then you are failing in your duty to protect Kenyans as per the constitution. Please arrest ALL Muslims and stop meandering around the idea. No wishy washy thinking. If you believe in your heart that Muslims did this, then arrest ALL of them. Or go a bit further. Instead of preaching in your church. Take a walk on the wild side and go camp in Mombasa and convert the Muslims. My friend, quoting one haddith about killing your enemies while neglecting the porn in the songs of Solomon is not....fair. Continue fighting religious wars. More kids will die. And you will fight some more. And more will die. Ask Jesus if that is the right way. I don't like giving my links or sources anymore since I may be undermining. But take this to the bank. The Al Shabaab newsletters are not talking about Muslims vs Christians. They are talking about taking back their land. If we have our gov't fighting the wrong war, we shall lose in this one. Thus far we have lost over 500 Kenyans and still counting. Think differently, something is just not making sense. Al Shabaab kills Muslims in Somalia but comes to Kenya to save them. If that' not an indicator of what's going on, I don't know what is. ISIL burns and beheads more Muslims than Christians. Tafakari hayo. That is the failure of this gov't and that is why they look so confused with their statements. And that is why even now, you are bloody angry with them. Infact I know now for a fact, if Moi and Kibaki ran right now, they would whitewash these fellows in a landslide. Because they seem confused. Is it Muslims yet Dualle is my mouthpiece? I'm with llimanika. Finish these people. The question I've been asking is, which people? Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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What is 'corruption'?
Corruption is a subversion of the basic human premise of identifying with each other's experience and offering support that will enable each other to flourish. Bribing another at the expense of the whole body politic is one example of corruption. Dividing lines of 'us' versus 'them' is another form of corruption. The use of terror is corruption. Negative ethnicity, and racism are corruption. Entitlement is corruption.
'Corruption' is something easily misunderstood because it goes deeper into what we can't see easily. The fundamentals of being human.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:alma wrote:
Ohhhh Please!
Take that to your church.
We are grown ups here. We know reality.
You are busy "undermining" muslims YET, your so called "christians" do the same shit every day.
My posts are rather clear.
We are fighting the wrong war. I don't think I can be more clear than that. And those that fight the wrong war, are annihilated.
It's not a christian vs muslim war.
We are fighting cessation here.
Tycho has given you referrence. The Al Jazeera video has given you something to think about.
You are still stuck up on stupid things like religion.
Ever since you knew it was a religious war, how many christians have you saved?
Just a question.
I'm saying this without fear and I really don't need anyone's favor.
We need to rethink what this country stands for and can stand for.
Every 10yrs there's a "new idea" taking over our kids.
First it was let's overthrow the gov't, then mwakenya, then mungiki, now al shabaab. the common denominator is young people who feel disenfranchised by their gov't.
You can go to your churches and continue thinking that Mohammed is coming to kill you kesho. That's your problem not mine. And I'd advise you to increase the reach of your friends. Like really search further than your church and clan.
When Americans were killed by these nutcases, they did not go around hating ALL muslims and immigrants. I don't know about you, but I thrived in the same place where some "outsiders" attacked.
Why?
Because there was a common purpose. All were created equal etc etc
Anyone who follows this monster called religion to foster an idea is one of the losers that actually killed these kids.
Tell your pastor I said that.
Corruption is killing this country. Have no doubt about it.
Deal with it. Now.
Otherwise we shall continue of this silly path of sijui Al Shabaab, Mungiki, and even the Indians are creating their own as we speak. It's called never hire a Kenyan as your boss.
Corruption and a basic lack of a common purpose for the guy in Mogotio and the herdsman in Wajir.
Yes, please! I have not saved anybody (because I have not sought out to) and I do my own thinking. I chart my own course and having had some experience with diversionary tactics in discourses, I think I can maintain my course in this one too. You still have not answered my questions. Let me quote for you a verse, an 'it-is-written', for justification for these killings whose counterparts in other thought systems is missing: Quote:2:191-193 - And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun.
Fitna is disbelief, polytheism etc Zalimun is polytheists, wrong doers etc It is their land. Secession, you say. They will drive you out not because they don't like your skin, language, smell, how you vote etc, but because it is a sacred duty for them. It may not be a matter of corruption only. The perpetrator of this latest crime was a son of an administrator - in the Office of the President - whose job, among other things, is to collect intel about such crimes and forward them to the relevant departments within the same office for further action. He did not know. He collected no intel. Was it because he was 'corrupt'? Why did you quote from 191, why did you leave out verse 190? Quran 2:190 says: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. The verses you have qouted is in context of war. It says, war is permissible in self-defence, and under well-defined limits. When undertaken, it must be pushed with vigour, but only to restore peace and freedom for the worship of Allah. In any case strict limits must not be transgressed: women, children, old and infirm men should not be molested, nor trees and crops cut down, nor peace withheld when the enemy comes to terms. We have many hadiths showing prophet muhammad prohibition against Killing Women and Children in Military Expeditions: "I advise you ten things: Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly." But does killing of women and children prohibted according to the Bible? 1 Samuel 15:2,3: This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "Numbers 31:17,18: Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Deuteronomy 20:16: However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. What @alma is telling you is that, what you see people doing is not Islam. It is not religion. These are criminals. Instead what you are doing is ignoring what is the religion, and going for what the media is telling you.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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alma wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:alma wrote:
Please Muriel if you say that a Christian who burns babies in a Church is reformed therein lie the goggles.
Which is this "reformed" religion you are talking about? The Jewish one in which children are bombed just because 2 Jews were shot at? Or the Islamic one in which 200 kids are killed just because some guy was killed in Somali? Or are you talking about the Christian one in which the Christian soldier will meet a Muslim woman in Garissa and beat her with nyaunyo's until she cries?
What is this "reformed" religion you are talking about?
You are right about armies and might will never work.
Alma. I thought you were unable to see 'it', it turns out you are just not willing to see 'it'. (a) The ones who burnt babies in a church ,,, they produced an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? (b) The jews who killed children in wherever, they produced an "it is written' from the bible to justify it? Sorry, they use Talmud. (c) The christian soldier who whips a muslim woman, he produces an 'It is written' from the bible to justify it? I am saying that everything you see being done in the name of Islam has justification in Qur'an or Hadithi. So when you see a young man shouting 'Allahu Akbar!' then detonates a device killing others innocently minding their own business it is because of his belief primarily then politics, secondarily. Politics is at the center of humanity. Religion is just but a political tool. If that is the case then there is no difference between us and the terrorists because they are acting on their political views just like Kenyans want their political views acted on. Simply put,sore losers with a bigoted hypocritical approach to the laws and beliefs of others,terrorist or otherwise. True. Politics has so far been modelled on terror. Globally. But terror is no longer useful. Might is no longer right. Yes symbols. As much as that may be unpalatable. The US vs THEM anthem has not worked. The Americans in their wisdom have hoodwinked us with "you are either with us or with them" nonsense. The results have devastated families in Kenya. I believe there's a better way. The way that Jesus would have taken. Al Shabaab is the wrong enemy. Let's look at ourselves first. Because that hongo you gave the cop to let you go at the road block was the same hongo these thugs used to kill 200 kids. @tycho - Based on what you've said right,wrong and terror are political views.Even your post is a political view. @alma - If you agree with @tycho's view then us vs them,devastation,better ways,enemies even that hongo boils down to political views that can be equally accepted and rejected.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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Alma,
There is no need to arrest them. They were killed. At least we are told. What use is there arresting dead people?
I do not preach. I am not in Mombasa and have no plans to go.
I do not need to ask anyone if a way is right when I know it is wrong.
You still have not answered my question. Was the administrator corrupt having failed to gather and forward intel that could have mitigated or prevented this crime, a crime done by his son maybe in his own house even?
I am not angry. An accurate description of facts is no indication of anger.
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