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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:[quote=obiero]
KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round You basically do not understand the underlying issues. This is a complex matter for you given that you also failed to see the blunders that Ngunze committed. Where does ET/SAA get the support for their B737. MJ cannot publicly rebuke KLM/ point out the underlying issues. He knows there are issues with it. Why was Seabury consulting commissioned to look into it? Why did he traveled to Amsterdam for discussion around the JV with KLM CEO immediately he took over? I am basically arguing with a real 'wanjiku' here. KLM knew that people in KQ are incompetent and went ahead to take advantage of the situation instead of taking corrective measures so that the performance of the Airline improves but they never did anything. They instead used the opportunity to amend the agreement to favour them. Alex and Naikuni were made to sign the amended agreement without being to the board. I have said it here severally that I am indeed wanjiku and not a seasoned commercial aviation guru like @arresteddev. However, Michael Joseph even mentioned Uhuru in that clip as one of the people who had not understood the JV. At least if I am being lied to by the board chair, I am in the company of PORK Uhuru Kenyatta as someone who cannot grasp complex aviation industry matters. Meanwhile project mawingu bought several new planes so the decommissioning you refer to of old planes onto KQ, defeats logic.. In addition, GE services the double R engines so there would be no need to buy spare parts from a partner airline, where you seem to assume that KLM has some idle engines lying around, waiting to be offloaded to KQ. It would also be in good order for you to table the alleged Seabury mandate or report since their brief was not removal of KLM, which still remains a dear partner to KQ. Read here http://www.businessdaily...2/-/gxonmh/-/index.html[/quote] I am not arguing with you on this anymore. You are mixing issues. In the interview if you have listened to it. MJ talks of the support that KLM provides to KQ in justifying the question asked. I have asked you in the post where SAA/ET get their support for their B737 for example. I am demonstrating to you that MJ is not washing dirty linen in the public. He is being careful with the choice of words. Do not put words in my mouth that I said KQ is buying engines from KLM. KQ bought old B737 from KLM which were later sold at throw away prices within a short period making KQ to incur huge losses ( BILLIONS).The purchase and sale of the planes were unearthed during the forensic audit. https://www.standardmedi...-at-a-throw-away-sh210m
"We determined that the two aircraft had been purchased at USD20.52 million in 2010 from KLM and later sold at a combined price of USD2.1 million in 2015 to Engage Aviation LLC. Prior to the sale in 2015, an independent review of the potential value of the two aircraft was stated at USD6 million,”
Seabury looked into the JV. I have posted the findings on this forum. Ngunze joined KQ in 2011.. Naikuni is the man you are after.. By the time the deal was being sealed Ngunze was nowhere near KQ http://www.nation.co.ke/...954622-xw74dw/index.html
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:[quote=ArrestedDev][quote=obiero]
KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round You basically do not understand the underlying issues. This is a complex matter for you given that you also failed to see the blunders that Ngunze committed. Where does ET/SAA get the support for their B737. MJ cannot publicly rebuke KLM/ point out the underlying issues. He knows there are issues with it. Why was Seabury consulting commissioned to look into it? Why did he traveled to Amsterdam for discussion around the JV with KLM CEO immediately he took over? I am basically arguing with a real 'wanjiku' here. KLM knew that people in KQ are incompetent and went ahead to take advantage of the situation instead of taking corrective measures so that the performance of the Airline improves but they never did anything. They instead used the opportunity to amend the agreement to favour them. Alex and Naikuni were made to sign the amended agreement without being to the board. I have said it here severally that I am indeed wanjiku and not a seasoned commercial aviation guru like @arresteddev. However, Michael Joseph even mentioned Uhuru in that clip as one of the people who had not understood the JV. At least if I am being lied to by the board chair, I am in the company of PORK Uhuru Kenyatta as someone who cannot grasp complex aviation industry matters. Meanwhile project mawingu bought several new planes so the decommissioning you refer to of old planes onto KQ, defeats logic.. In addition, GE services the double R engines so there would be no need to buy spare parts from a partner airline, where you seem to assume that KLM has some idle engines lying around, waiting to be offloaded to KQ. It would also be in good order for you to table the alleged Seabury mandate or report since their brief was not removal of KLM, which still remains a dear partner to KQ. Read here http://www.businessdaily...2/-/gxonmh/-/index.html[/quote] I am not arguing with you on this anymore. You are mixing issues. In the interview if you have listened to it. MJ talks of the support that KLM provides to KQ in justifying the question asked. I have asked you in the post where SAA/ET get their support for their B737 for example. I am demonstrating to you that MJ is not washing dirty linen in the public. He is being careful with the choice of words. Do not put words in my mouth that I said KQ is buying engines from KLM. KQ bought old B737 from KLM which were later sold at throw away prices within a short period making KQ to incur huge losses ( BILLIONS).The purchase and sale of the planes were unearthed during the forensic audit. https://www.standardmedi...-at-a-throw-away-sh210m
"We determined that the two aircraft had been purchased at USD20.52 million in 2010 from KLM and later sold at a combined price of USD2.1 million in 2015 to Engage Aviation LLC. Prior to the sale in 2015, an independent review of the potential value of the two aircraft was stated at USD6 million,”
Seabury looked into the JV. I have posted the findings on this forum. Ngunze joined KQ in 2011.. Naikuni is the man you are after.. By the time the deal was being sealed Ngunze was nowhere near KQ http://www.nation.co.ke/...54622-xw74dw/index.html[/quote] The sale took place in 2015. Leave this topic and talk about something else. Do not mention that Crook called Ngunze in this forum.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:[quote=obiero]
KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round You basically do not understand the underlying issues. This is a complex matter for you given that you also failed to see the blunders that Ngunze committed. Where does ET/SAA get the support for their B737. MJ cannot publicly rebuke KLM/ point out the underlying issues. He knows there are issues with it. Why was Seabury consulting commissioned to look into it? Why did he traveled to Amsterdam for discussion around the JV with KLM CEO immediately he took over? I am basically arguing with a real 'wanjiku' here. KLM knew that people in KQ are incompetent and went ahead to take advantage of the situation instead of taking corrective measures so that the performance of the Airline improves but they never did anything. They instead used the opportunity to amend the agreement to favour them. Alex and Naikuni were made to sign the amended agreement without being to the board. I have said it here severally that I am indeed wanjiku and not a seasoned commercial aviation guru like @arresteddev. However, Michael Joseph even mentioned Uhuru in that clip as one of the people who had not understood the JV. At least if I am being lied to by the board chair, I am in the company of PORK Uhuru Kenyatta as someone who cannot grasp complex aviation industry matters. Meanwhile project mawingu bought several new planes so the decommissioning you refer to of old planes onto KQ, defeats logic.. In addition, GE services the double R engines so there would be no need to buy spare parts from a partner airline, where you seem to assume that KLM has some idle engines lying around, waiting to be offloaded to KQ. It would also be in good order for you to table the alleged Seabury mandate or report since their brief was not removal of KLM, which still remains a dear partner to KQ. Read here http://www.businessdaily...2/-/gxonmh/-/index.html[/quote] I am not arguing with you on this anymore. You are mixing issues. In the interview if you have listened to it. MJ talks of the support that KLM provides to KQ in justifying the question asked. I have asked you in the post where SAA/ET get their support for their B737 for example. I am demonstrating to you that MJ is not washing dirty linen in the public. He is being careful with the choice of words. Do not put words in my mouth that I said KQ is buying engines from KLM. KQ bought old B737 from KLM which were later sold at throw away prices within a short period making KQ to incur huge losses ( BILLIONS).The purchase and sale of the planes were unearthed during the forensic audit. https://www.standardmedi...-at-a-throw-away-sh210m
"We determined that the two aircraft had been purchased at USD20.52 million in 2010 from KLM and later sold at a combined price of USD2.1 million in 2015 to Engage Aviation LLC. Prior to the sale in 2015, an independent review of the potential value of the two aircraft was stated at USD6 million,”
Seabury looked into the JV. I have posted the findings on this forum. Ngunze joined KQ in 2011.. Naikuni is the man you are after.. By the time the deal was being sealed Ngunze was nowhere near KQ http://www.nation.co.ke/...54622-xw74dw/index.html
The sale took place in 2015. Leave this topic and talk about something else. Do not mention that Crook called Ngunze in this forum. We were discussing the purchase, not sale under difficult conditions. I put it to you that neither you or I would have done any better were we appointed CEO during that period. That alleged crook named Ngunze is the corner stone of KQs rebuild.. You should also take time to read about Michael Joseph's wise involvement in Mobitelea
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:By @ArrestedDev "Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways"
KQ was already going down the crapper by 2012 when it successfully hoodwinked many Kenyans into subscribing to the Rights Issue. KLM also subscribed for more shares.
I am not surprised that KLM tried to take corrective action in 2013 after KQ (Naikuni and his merry band of crooks) pissed away billions within 12 months.
How could/did KLM "force" Naikuni and Mbugua to sign any substantive agreement without the permission/approval of the board?
The board had many Kenyan directors including the Chairman (Evans Mwaniki, a lawyer (Dinesh Kapila), etc
Let's call a spade a spade. The crooks were "Watu Wetu" not KLM. We had to get Michael Joseph (South African-American and recently now I think a Kenyan) and Mikosz (Polish) and others to clean up the huge financial mess. Mbugua is back courtesy of Kenyan courts and probably a godfather! They had a role to play and hence cannot escape scrutiny. The executives in KLM saw it coming boss, If we can easily point out the blunders here on the forum what about experienced executives running one of the oldest airline in the world? KLM benefited and they continue to benefit from the mess that KQ found itself in. Alex & Naikuni being at the helm of KQ was a big mistake so to Ngunze. Little brains were left to mess an Airline which had been sorted out by Brian. I am not alone. Read the excerpts from the Seabury report. KLM knew all along people in KQ does not understand how the JV works and they never took time to explain to them. Representatives from KQ went to meetings with KLM representatives totally unprepared, these must have been the concubines appointed by Ngunze. At the board level, the executive directors e.g. CEO & Finance Director are the only ones who really understands the issues given the previous Chairmen did not have track records holding executive positions in the Corporate sector like that of Michael Joseph. Look at the interview MJ gave to Ali Khan Satchu, who else have ever done this among the former board chairs of KQ. They did not understand how things happened in the Co. Alex and Naikuni were the only ones lying to us through the media all the time and by extension Ngunze. It is clear to me that MJ is being careful with words while responding to the question on KLM. He understands the underlying issues and he cannot call out just like that in the media. Only those who read between the lines can comprehend these things. It is not for 'wanjiku', not easy at all to digest. See below editorial from the Standard published today. https://www.standardmedi...o-keep-kq-high-in-skies
Quote:KLM was brought in to prevent the airline from imminent collapse in a decision that was hailed at the time. But then, KQ made huge concessions that returned to haunt it later. Every major decision would only pass with the approval of the Dutch strategic partners, who were also running their competing business in the same space. Evanson Mwaniki as well as Dennis Awori are not mediocre fellows as you want to insinuate.. Who is the Chair of Safaricom and how many interviews has he given? What about Munga at EQTY or Ngeny of KCB.. Appearing weekly on the screens doesn't necessarily mean that the company is better managed Which track record of every day management of a Co. does Mwaniki and Awori have? Just being in the board? The late Reuben Marambii of NBK is better than the above fellows you are referring to. You are glorifying characters who allowed shaddy deals to go on. Characters who were appointed because they have the political connections and hence can influence the likes of Toyota to get government contracts? We know these issues. I need people like Oduor Otieno of KCB.Someone who left a consistent track record of performance. Here is part of the CVs for the two Kenyans who have done pretty well in their careers. Evanson K. Mwaniki is affiliated with Kenya Shell Ltd., BP Kenya Ltd., ICEA LION General Insurance Co. Ltd., East African Packaging Industries Ltd., Starehe Boys Centre & School, Kenya Airways Ltd. former Chairman,East African Breweries Ltd. former Chairman, British American Tobacco Kenya Ltd. former Chairman, Alliance High School former BOG Chairman Amb Dennis Awori is affiliated to Bank of Africa Ltd Chairman, PRESENT East African Cables Ltd Board Member, Kenya Airways Ltd former Chairman, PRESENT Cfao Board Member, 2/2017-PRESENT Transcentury Ltd Board Member, 12/2015-PRESENT Carbacid Investments Ltd Board Member, 8/2014-PRESENT Toyota Kenya Ltd Chairman
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:By @ArrestedDev "Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways"
KQ was already going down the crapper by 2012 when it successfully hoodwinked many Kenyans into subscribing to the Rights Issue. KLM also subscribed for more shares.
I am not surprised that KLM tried to take corrective action in 2013 after KQ (Naikuni and his merry band of crooks) pissed away billions within 12 months.
How could/did KLM "force" Naikuni and Mbugua to sign any substantive agreement without the permission/approval of the board?
The board had many Kenyan directors including the Chairman (Evans Mwaniki, a lawyer (Dinesh Kapila), etc
Let's call a spade a spade. The crooks were "Watu Wetu" not KLM. We had to get Michael Joseph (South African-American and recently now I think a Kenyan) and Mikosz (Polish) and others to clean up the huge financial mess. Mbugua is back courtesy of Kenyan courts and probably a godfather! They had a role to play and hence cannot escape scrutiny. The executives in KLM saw it coming boss, If we can easily point out the blunders here on the forum what about experienced executives running one of the oldest airline in the world? KLM benefited and they continue to benefit from the mess that KQ found itself in. Alex & Naikuni being at the helm of KQ was a big mistake so to Ngunze. Little brains were left to mess an Airline which had been sorted out by Brian. I am not alone. Read the excerpts from the Seabury report. KLM knew all along people in KQ does not understand how the JV works and they never took time to explain to them. Representatives from KQ went to meetings with KLM representatives totally unprepared, these must have been the concubines appointed by Ngunze. At the board level, the executive directors e.g. CEO & Finance Director are the only ones who really understands the issues given the previous Chairmen did not have track records holding executive positions in the Corporate sector like that of Michael Joseph. Look at the interview MJ gave to Ali Khan Satchu, who else have ever done this among the former board chairs of KQ. They did not understand how things happened in the Co. Alex and Naikuni were the only ones lying to us through the media all the time and by extension Ngunze. It is clear to me that MJ is being careful with words while responding to the question on KLM. He understands the underlying issues and he cannot call out just like that in the media. Only those who read between the lines can comprehend these things. It is not for 'wanjiku', not easy at all to digest. See below editorial from the Standard published today. https://www.standardmedi...o-keep-kq-high-in-skies
Quote:KLM was brought in to prevent the airline from imminent collapse in a decision that was hailed at the time. But then, KQ made huge concessions that returned to haunt it later. Every major decision would only pass with the approval of the Dutch strategic partners, who were also running their competing business in the same space. Evanson Mwaniki as well as Dennis Awori are not mediocre fellows as you want to insinuate.. Who is the Chair of Safaricom and how many interviews has he given? What about Munga at EQTY or Ngeny of KCB.. Appearing weekly on the screens doesn't necessarily mean that the company is better managed Which track record of every day management of a Co. does Mwaniki and Awori have? Just being in the board? The late Reuben Marambii of NBK is better than the above fellows you are referring to. You are glorifying characters who allowed shaddy deals to go on. Characters who were appointed because they have the political connections and hence can influence the likes of Toyota to get government contracts? We know these issues. I need people like Oduor Otieno of KCB.Someone who left a consistent track record of performance. Here is part of the CVs for the two Kenyans who have done pretty well in their careers. Evanson K. Mwaniki is affiliated with Kenya Shell Ltd., BP Kenya Ltd., ICEA LION General Insurance Co. Ltd., East African Packaging Industries Ltd., Starehe Boys Centre & School, Kenya Airways Ltd. former Chairman,East African Breweries Ltd. former Chairman, British American Tobacco Kenya Ltd. former Chairman, Alliance High School former BOG Chairman Amb Dennis Awori is affiliated to Bank of Africa Ltd Chairman, PRESENT East African Cables Ltd Board Member, Kenya Airways Ltd former Chairman, PRESENT Cfao Board Member, 2/2017-PRESENT Transcentury Ltd Board Member, 12/2015-PRESENT Carbacid Investments Ltd Board Member, 8/2014-PRESENT Toyota Kenya Ltd Chairman Now whats the issue you two?  possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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maka wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:By @ArrestedDev "Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways"
KQ was already going down the crapper by 2012 when it successfully hoodwinked many Kenyans into subscribing to the Rights Issue. KLM also subscribed for more shares.
I am not surprised that KLM tried to take corrective action in 2013 after KQ (Naikuni and his merry band of crooks) pissed away billions within 12 months.
How could/did KLM "force" Naikuni and Mbugua to sign any substantive agreement without the permission/approval of the board?
The board had many Kenyan directors including the Chairman (Evans Mwaniki, a lawyer (Dinesh Kapila), etc
Let's call a spade a spade. The crooks were "Watu Wetu" not KLM. We had to get Michael Joseph (South African-American and recently now I think a Kenyan) and Mikosz (Polish) and others to clean up the huge financial mess. Mbugua is back courtesy of Kenyan courts and probably a godfather! They had a role to play and hence cannot escape scrutiny. The executives in KLM saw it coming boss, If we can easily point out the blunders here on the forum what about experienced executives running one of the oldest airline in the world? KLM benefited and they continue to benefit from the mess that KQ found itself in. Alex & Naikuni being at the helm of KQ was a big mistake so to Ngunze. Little brains were left to mess an Airline which had been sorted out by Brian. I am not alone. Read the excerpts from the Seabury report. KLM knew all along people in KQ does not understand how the JV works and they never took time to explain to them. Representatives from KQ went to meetings with KLM representatives totally unprepared, these must have been the concubines appointed by Ngunze. At the board level, the executive directors e.g. CEO & Finance Director are the only ones who really understands the issues given the previous Chairmen did not have track records holding executive positions in the Corporate sector like that of Michael Joseph. Look at the interview MJ gave to Ali Khan Satchu, who else have ever done this among the former board chairs of KQ. They did not understand how things happened in the Co. Alex and Naikuni were the only ones lying to us through the media all the time and by extension Ngunze. It is clear to me that MJ is being careful with words while responding to the question on KLM. He understands the underlying issues and he cannot call out just like that in the media. Only those who read between the lines can comprehend these things. It is not for 'wanjiku', not easy at all to digest. See below editorial from the Standard published today. https://www.standardmedi...o-keep-kq-high-in-skies
Quote:KLM was brought in to prevent the airline from imminent collapse in a decision that was hailed at the time. But then, KQ made huge concessions that returned to haunt it later. Every major decision would only pass with the approval of the Dutch strategic partners, who were also running their competing business in the same space. Evanson Mwaniki as well as Dennis Awori are not mediocre fellows as you want to insinuate.. Who is the Chair of Safaricom and how many interviews has he given? What about Munga at EQTY or Ngeny of KCB.. Appearing weekly on the screens doesn't necessarily mean that the company is better managed Which track record of every day management of a Co. does Mwaniki and Awori have? Just being in the board? The late Reuben Marambii of NBK is better than the above fellows you are referring to. You are glorifying characters who allowed shaddy deals to go on. Characters who were appointed because they have the political connections and hence can influence the likes of Toyota to get government contracts? We know these issues. I need people like Oduor Otieno of KCB.Someone who left a consistent track record of performance. Here is part of the CVs for the two Kenyans who have done pretty well in their careers. Evanson K. Mwaniki is affiliated with Kenya Shell Ltd., BP Kenya Ltd., ICEA LION General Insurance Co. Ltd., East African Packaging Industries Ltd., Starehe Boys Centre & School, Kenya Airways Ltd. former Chairman,East African Breweries Ltd. former Chairman, British American Tobacco Kenya Ltd. former Chairman, Alliance High School former BOG Chairman Amb Dennis Awori is affiliated to Bank of Africa Ltd Chairman, PRESENT East African Cables Ltd Board Member, Kenya Airways Ltd former Chairman, PRESENT Cfao Board Member, 2/2017-PRESENT Transcentury Ltd Board Member, 12/2015-PRESENT Carbacid Investments Ltd Board Member, 8/2014-PRESENT Toyota Kenya Ltd Chairman Now whats the issue you two? He hates KQ and I love KQ 😍😍😍
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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When is the right time to buy KQ shares? possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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maka wrote:When is the right time to buy KQ shares? After announcement of the Open Offer
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:maka wrote:When is the right time to buy KQ shares? After announcement of the Open Offer I want to buy long term...I believe the worst is behind us now... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/13/2008 Posts: 75
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Kenya Airways Plc (Suspension from Trading): Please note that trading in Kenya Airways Plc (KQ) has been suspended from trading between November 15, 2017 and November 28, 2017 to enable the company undertake a share split and simultaneous consolidation of Kenya Airways Plc shares which forms part of the company's consolidation process. The suspension in trading was approved by CMA on November 14, 2017.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/19/2015 Posts: 125
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Do not buy this share above Ksh.3!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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ZILLION wrote:Kenya Airways Plc (Suspension from Trading): Please note that trading in Kenya Airways Plc (KQ) has been suspended from trading between November 15, 2017 and November 28, 2017 to enable the company undertake a share split and simultaneous consolidation of Kenya Airways Plc shares which forms part of the company's consolidation process. The suspension in trading was approved by CMA on November 14, 2017.
Finally... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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maka wrote:ZILLION wrote:Kenya Airways Plc (Suspension from Trading): Please note that trading in Kenya Airways Plc (KQ) has been suspended from trading between November 15, 2017 and November 28, 2017 to enable the company undertake a share split and simultaneous consolidation of Kenya Airways Plc shares which forms part of the company's consolidation process. The suspension in trading was approved by CMA on November 14, 2017.
Finally... Great. Tuko ndani ndaani. This book closure was badly needed
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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obiero wrote:maka wrote:ZILLION wrote:Kenya Airways Plc (Suspension from Trading): Please note that trading in Kenya Airways Plc (KQ) has been suspended from trading between November 15, 2017 and November 28, 2017 to enable the company undertake a share split and simultaneous consolidation of Kenya Airways Plc shares which forms part of the company's consolidation process. The suspension in trading was approved by CMA on November 14, 2017.
Finally... Great. Tuko ndani ndaani. This book closure was badly needed Told you announcements here are crazy. Not for the faint heart In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:KQ Open Offer likely to be 1 for 1. Price KES 1.8. Only question remaining is book closure date. Anything later than the cautionary announcement date, shall be a fraud Company itself is a fraud perpetreting a fraud. How can books closure be backdated?????? On August 05 we discussed the matter at hand? Finally, the books close albeit accompanied by a suspension for restructuring purposes. Here we are, take off guaranteed upon resumption of trading, minimum price KES 8.52 with no ceiling!!! The rally of a lifetime
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/18/2014 Posts: 1,127
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ZILLION wrote:Kenya Airways Plc (Suspension from Trading): Please note that trading in Kenya Airways Plc (KQ) has been suspended from trading between November 15, 2017 and November 28, 2017 to enable the company undertake a share split and simultaneous consolidation of Kenya Airways Plc shares which forms part of the company's consolidation process. The suspension in trading was approved by CMA on November 14, 2017.
Why the very discreet and sudden announcement? I believe this was not mentioned anywhere in the prior KQ on-goings? I don't understand the logic behind the suspension altogether, book closure would have sufficient. The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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lochaz-index wrote:ZILLION wrote:Kenya Airways Plc (Suspension from Trading): Please note that trading in Kenya Airways Plc (KQ) has been suspended from trading between November 15, 2017 and November 28, 2017 to enable the company undertake a share split and simultaneous consolidation of Kenya Airways Plc shares which forms part of the company's consolidation process. The suspension in trading was approved by CMA on November 14, 2017.
Why the very discreet and sudden announcement? I believe this was not mentioned anywhere in the prior KQ on-goings? I don't understand the logic behind the suspension altogether, book closure would have sufficient. It is noted that a cautionary announcement had been in effect for over 3 months.. The suspension should come as no surprise.. Major company announcements were due in the coming weeks hence fair value pricing would be near impossible
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,663 Location: NAIROBI
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obiero wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:KQ Open Offer likely to be 1 for 1. Price KES 1.8. Only question remaining is book closure date. Anything later than the cautionary announcement date, shall be a fraud Company itself is a fraud perpetreting a fraud. How can books closure be backdated?????? On August 05 we discussed the matter at hand? Finally, the books close albeit accompanied by a suspension for restructuring purposes. Here we are, take off guaranteed upon resumption of trading, minimum price KES 8.52 with no ceiling!!! The rally of a lifetime Simple logic shows 8.52 not attainable upon resumption of trading Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,084 Location: Nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:By @ArrestedDev "Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways"
KQ was already going down the crapper by 2012 when it successfully hoodwinked many Kenyans into subscribing to the Rights Issue. KLM also subscribed for more shares.
I am not surprised that KLM tried to take corrective action in 2013 after KQ (Naikuni and his merry band of crooks) pissed away billions within 12 months.
How could/did KLM "force" Naikuni and Mbugua to sign any substantive agreement without the permission/approval of the board?
The board had many Kenyan directors including the Chairman (Evans Mwaniki, a lawyer (Dinesh Kapila), etc
Let's call a spade a spade. The crooks were "Watu Wetu" not KLM. We had to get Michael Joseph (South African-American and recently now I think a Kenyan) and Mikosz (Polish) and others to clean up the huge financial mess. Mbugua is back courtesy of Kenyan courts and probably a godfather! They had a role to play and hence cannot escape scrutiny. The executives in KLM saw it coming boss, If we can easily point out the blunders here on the forum what about experienced executives running one of the oldest airline in the world? KLM benefited and they continue to benefit from the mess that KQ found itself in. Alex & Naikuni being at the helm of KQ was a big mistake so to Ngunze. Little brains were left to mess an Airline which had been sorted out by Brian. I am not alone. Read the excerpts from the Seabury report. KLM knew all along people in KQ does not understand how the JV works and they never took time to explain to them. Why should KLM explain the JV to folks who should understand JVs? Naikuni and his Merry Crooks were making millions a month. The board members had great perks. Surely, KLM would expect that folks occupying such lofty positions in KQ would understand complex matters. Representatives from KQ went to meetings with KLM representatives totally unprepared, these must have been the concubines appointed by Ngunze. Not KLM's fault if KQ sends unprepared folks. Is the lawyer for the prosecution supposed to go easy on an unprepared defense lawyer? Or ManU going easy if Arsenal doesn't bring their A game? At the board level, the executive directors e.g. CEO & Finance Director are the only ones who really understands the issues given the previous Chairmen did not have track records holding executive positions in the Corporate sector like that of Michael Joseph. How is this KLM's fault? It's the fault of Kenyans! And shareholders. Did anyone ask or query the qualifications of Awori or Mwaniki? Look at the interview MJ gave to Ali Khan Satchu, who else have ever done this among the former board chairs of KQ. They did not understand how things happened in the Co. Alex and Naikuni were the only ones lying to us through the media all the time and by extension Ngunze. It is clear to me that MJ is being careful with words while responding to the question on KLM. He understands the underlying issues and he cannot call out just like that in the media. Only those who read between the lines can comprehend these things. It is not for 'wanjiku', not easy at all to digest. See below editorial from the Standard published today. https://www.standardmedi...o-keep-kq-high-in-skies
Quote:KLM was brought in to prevent the airline from imminent collapse in a decision that was hailed at the time. But then, KQ made huge concessions that returned to haunt it later. Every major decision would only pass with the approval of the Dutch strategic partners, who were also running their competing business in the same space. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,084 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:[quote=obiero]
KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round You basically do not understand the underlying issues. This is a complex matter for you given that you also failed to see the blunders that Ngunze committed. Where does ET/SAA get the support for their B737. MJ cannot publicly rebuke KLM/ point out the underlying issues. He knows there are issues with it. Why was Seabury consulting commissioned to look into it? Why did he traveled to Amsterdam for discussion around the JV with KLM CEO immediately he took over? I am basically arguing with a real 'wanjiku' here. KLM knew that people in KQ are incompetent and went ahead to take advantage of the situation instead of taking corrective measures so that the performance of the Airline improves but they never did anything. They instead used the opportunity to amend the agreement to favour them. Alex and Naikuni were made to sign the amended agreement without being to the board. I have said it here severally that I am indeed wanjiku and not a seasoned commercial aviation guru like @arresteddev. However, Michael Joseph even mentioned Uhuru in that clip as one of the people who had not understood the JV. At least if I am being lied to by the board chair, I am in the company of PORK Uhuru Kenyatta as someone who cannot grasp complex aviation industry matters. Meanwhile project mawingu bought several new planes so the decommissioning you refer to of old planes onto KQ, defeats logic.. In addition, GE services the double R engines so there would be no need to buy spare parts from a partner airline, where you seem to assume that KLM has some idle engines lying around, waiting to be offloaded to KQ. It would also be in good order for you to table the alleged Seabury mandate or report since their brief was not removal of KLM, which still remains a dear partner to KQ. Read here http://www.businessdaily...2/-/gxonmh/-/index.html[/quote] I am not arguing with you on this anymore. You are mixing issues. In the interview if you have listened to it. MJ talks of the support that KLM provides to KQ in justifying the question asked. I have asked you in the post where SAA/ET get their support for their B737 for example. I am demonstrating to you that MJ is not washing dirty linen in the public. He is being careful with the choice of words. Do not put words in my mouth that I said KQ is buying engines from KLM. KQ bought old B737 from KLM which were later sold at throw away prices within a short period making KQ to incur huge losses ( BILLIONS).The purchase and sale of the planes were unearthed during the forensic audit. https://www.standardmedi...-at-a-throw-away-sh210m
"We determined that the two aircraft had been purchased at USD20.52 million in 2010 from KLM and later sold at a combined price of USD2.1 million in 2015 to Engage Aviation LLC. Prior to the sale in 2015, an independent review of the potential value of the two aircraft was stated at USD6 million,”
Seabury looked into the JV. I have posted the findings on this forum. Ngunze joined KQ in 2011.. Naikuni is the man you are after.. By the time the deal was being sealed Ngunze was nowhere near KQ http://www.nation.co.ke/...54622-xw74dw/index.html
The sale took place in 2015. Leave this topic and talk about something else. Do not mention that Crook called Ngunze in this forum. We were discussing the purchase, not sale under difficult conditions. So KQ overpaid for the planes. $20mn to $2mn in 4 years? I doubt KQ made $18mn per plane in profits in 4 years! I put it to you that neither you or I would have done any better were we appointed CEO during that period. Speak for yourself. That alleged crook named Ngunze is the corner stone of KQs rebuild.. You should also take time to read about Michael Joseph's wise involvement in Mobitelea Do tell us. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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