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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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maka wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ebenyo wrote:Ericsson wrote:obiero wrote:Ericsson wrote:Kenya’s government and domestic lenders agreed to convert $405.3 million of Kenya Airways Plc debt into equity, giving the state a controlling stake and diluting other shareholders including Air France-KLM. The government, which has given Kenya Airways shilling and U.S.-dollar loans totaling $238.1 million, will increase its stake to 48.9 percent from 29.8 percent, according to statements published in the Nairobi-based Standard newspaper on Monday. Lenders owed $217.2 million will convert part of that debt into a 38.1 percent holding. “The government of Kenya shall acquire effective control in Kenya Airways and it shall make an application to the Capital Markets Authority for exemption from the take-over requirements in compliance with the Take-overs regulations,” Treasury Secretary Henry Rotich said. In addition to the debt-for-equity swap, the government and Kenya Airways entered a convertible-loan agreement for a remaining portion of state loans that will result in the issue of more shares at a future date, according to the statement. A similar agreement was reached with banks, whose stake will be housed in a company known as KQ Lenders Co., for $50 million of outstanding debt. https://www.bloomberg.co...ays-debt-to-equity-swap
So which paragraph points to the alleged 10 years.. It was in the prime time news yesterday Good riddance of KLM.They are responsible for the downfall of KQ.This is a right move that will enable the airline to stand on its feet. KLM wasn't the problem. The crooks running KQ were the problem. Naikuni, Mbugua and their crooked friends. Brian Presbury turned around KQ. Naikuni and his cronies destroyed it financially. Ngunze was handed a poisoned chalice. Sebastian and Joseph are now running the show. I wonder if minority shareholders should agree to Kenyans running KQ again after Joseph and Mikosz revive it. True...100% KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,663 Location: NAIROBI
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Ebenyo wrote:Ericsson wrote:obiero wrote:Ericsson wrote:Kenya’s government and domestic lenders agreed to convert $405.3 million of Kenya Airways Plc debt into equity, giving the state a controlling stake and diluting other shareholders including Air France-KLM. The government, which has given Kenya Airways shilling and U.S.-dollar loans totaling $238.1 million, will increase its stake to 48.9 percent from 29.8 percent, according to statements published in the Nairobi-based Standard newspaper on Monday. Lenders owed $217.2 million will convert part of that debt into a 38.1 percent holding. “The government of Kenya shall acquire effective control in Kenya Airways and it shall make an application to the Capital Markets Authority for exemption from the take-over requirements in compliance with the Take-overs regulations,” Treasury Secretary Henry Rotich said. In addition to the debt-for-equity swap, the government and Kenya Airways entered a convertible-loan agreement for a remaining portion of state loans that will result in the issue of more shares at a future date, according to the statement. A similar agreement was reached with banks, whose stake will be housed in a company known as KQ Lenders Co., for $50 million of outstanding debt. https://www.bloomberg.co...ays-debt-to-equity-swap
So which paragraph points to the alleged 10 years.. It was in the prime time news yesterday Good riddance of KLM.They are responsible for the downfall of KQ.This is a right move that will enable the airline to stand on its feet. @Ebenyo some things you say with evidence/justifcation Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,663 Location: NAIROBI
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obiero wrote:Ericsson wrote:Share price down 9.91% today Really?? I see a different figure.. Some recovery has happened narrowing the loss Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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Ericsson wrote:obiero wrote:Ericsson wrote:Share price down 9.91% today Really?? I see a different figure.. Some recovery has happened narrowing the loss Some would wish that KQ prints KES 2 as per @spikes dreamy prophesy, but KES 8.5 is more likely.. We await the Open Offer price anxiously HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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Mbuvi confirms to me, at the Pride Centre this Friday 8.45am just before market opening, we shall be served with the work of his hands being HY 2017/2018 HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:maka wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ebenyo wrote:Ericsson wrote:obiero wrote:Ericsson wrote:Kenya’s government and domestic lenders agreed to convert $405.3 million of Kenya Airways Plc debt into equity, giving the state a controlling stake and diluting other shareholders including Air France-KLM. The government, which has given Kenya Airways shilling and U.S.-dollar loans totaling $238.1 million, will increase its stake to 48.9 percent from 29.8 percent, according to statements published in the Nairobi-based Standard newspaper on Monday. Lenders owed $217.2 million will convert part of that debt into a 38.1 percent holding. “The government of Kenya shall acquire effective control in Kenya Airways and it shall make an application to the Capital Markets Authority for exemption from the take-over requirements in compliance with the Take-overs regulations,” Treasury Secretary Henry Rotich said. In addition to the debt-for-equity swap, the government and Kenya Airways entered a convertible-loan agreement for a remaining portion of state loans that will result in the issue of more shares at a future date, according to the statement. A similar agreement was reached with banks, whose stake will be housed in a company known as KQ Lenders Co., for $50 million of outstanding debt. https://www.bloomberg.co...ays-debt-to-equity-swap
So which paragraph points to the alleged 10 years.. It was in the prime time news yesterday Good riddance of KLM.They are responsible for the downfall of KQ.This is a right move that will enable the airline to stand on its feet. KLM wasn't the problem. The crooks running KQ were the problem. Naikuni, Mbugua and their crooked friends. Brian Presbury turned around KQ. Naikuni and his cronies destroyed it financially. Ngunze was handed a poisoned chalice. Sebastian and Joseph are now running the show. I wonder if minority shareholders should agree to Kenyans running KQ again after Joseph and Mikosz revive it. True...100% KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:Mbuvi confirms to me, at the Pride Centre this Friday 8.45am just before market opening, we shall be served with the work of his hands being HY 2017/2018 Take Ngunze out of KQ.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ebenyo wrote:Ericsson wrote:obiero wrote:Ericsson wrote:Kenya’s government and domestic lenders agreed to convert $405.3 million of Kenya Airways Plc debt into equity, giving the state a controlling stake and diluting other shareholders including Air France-KLM. The government, which has given Kenya Airways shilling and U.S.-dollar loans totaling $238.1 million, will increase its stake to 48.9 percent from 29.8 percent, according to statements published in the Nairobi-based Standard newspaper on Monday. Lenders owed $217.2 million will convert part of that debt into a 38.1 percent holding. “The government of Kenya shall acquire effective control in Kenya Airways and it shall make an application to the Capital Markets Authority for exemption from the take-over requirements in compliance with the Take-overs regulations,” Treasury Secretary Henry Rotich said. In addition to the debt-for-equity swap, the government and Kenya Airways entered a convertible-loan agreement for a remaining portion of state loans that will result in the issue of more shares at a future date, according to the statement. A similar agreement was reached with banks, whose stake will be housed in a company known as KQ Lenders Co., for $50 million of outstanding debt. https://www.bloomberg.co...ays-debt-to-equity-swap
So which paragraph points to the alleged 10 years.. It was in the prime time news yesterday Good riddance of KLM.They are responsible for the downfall of KQ.This is a right move that will enable the airline to stand on its feet. KLM wasn't the problem. The crooks running KQ were the problem. Naikuni, Mbugua and their crooked friends. Brian Presbury turned around KQ. Naikuni and his cronies destroyed it financially. Ngunze was handed a poisoned chalice. Sebastian and Joseph are now running the show. I wonder if minority shareholders should agree to Kenyans running KQ again after Joseph and Mikosz revive it. True...100% KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM and not the other way round HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,084 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:Mbuvi confirms to me, at the Pride Centre this Friday 8.45am just before market opening, we shall be served with the work of his hands being HY 2017/2018 Another loss? How many years has it been KQ even showed a profit? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,084 Location: Nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ebenyo wrote:Ericsson wrote:obiero wrote:Ericsson wrote:Kenya’s government and domestic lenders agreed to convert $405.3 million of Kenya Airways Plc debt into equity, giving the state a controlling stake and diluting other shareholders including Air France-KLM. The government, which has given Kenya Airways shilling and U.S.-dollar loans totaling $238.1 million, will increase its stake to 48.9 percent from 29.8 percent, according to statements published in the Nairobi-based Standard newspaper on Monday. Lenders owed $217.2 million will convert part of that debt into a 38.1 percent holding. “The government of Kenya shall acquire effective control in Kenya Airways and it shall make an application to the Capital Markets Authority for exemption from the take-over requirements in compliance with the Take-overs regulations,” Treasury Secretary Henry Rotich said. In addition to the debt-for-equity swap, the government and Kenya Airways entered a convertible-loan agreement for a remaining portion of state loans that will result in the issue of more shares at a future date, according to the statement. A similar agreement was reached with banks, whose stake will be housed in a company known as KQ Lenders Co., for $50 million of outstanding debt. https://www.bloomberg.co...ays-debt-to-equity-swap
So which paragraph points to the alleged 10 years.. It was in the prime time news yesterday Good riddance of KLM.They are responsible for the downfall of KQ.This is a right move that will enable the airline to stand on its feet. KLM wasn't the problem. The crooks running KQ were the problem. Naikuni, Mbugua and their crooked friends. Brian Presbury turned around KQ. Naikuni and his cronies destroyed it financially. Ngunze was handed a poisoned chalice. Sebastian and Joseph are now running the show. I wonder if minority shareholders should agree to Kenyans running KQ again after Joseph and Mikosz revive it. True...100% KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. An outright lie.
It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. KQ's downfall started when Naikuni and his merry band of crooks entered into contracts for NEW planes and fuel hedges so what decommissioned planes are you talking about? The board (mostly Kenyan) with strong representation by GoK could have scrutinized all deals. The 2 most powerful guys in management were both Kenyans and not Dutch.
Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Stop blaming KLM for corruption, incompetencies and impunity inflicted on Kenyans by Kenyans. Those hedges are suspect. Back in 2011-12, after I attended a roadshow by KQ and then read Project Mawingu's (Rights) IM, it seemed too ambitious. That's when I decided to bail and take a loss on KQ. I was burnt by Olympia, also run by a crook, and this looked very similar albeit much larger in scale. The Olympia CEO blamed everything and everyone but himself for a botched deal but my gut feeling is he did very well for himself. Warren Buffett says if you do not trust the management [& can't change it] do not invest in the firm. Even after the debacle post-Rights for KQ, it took 5 years to (fully) change the management. Even if you can change the management, you do not know the real rot inside. Even after Naikuni left, there was his co-pilot Mbugua. Then add all those in various positions who thrived under Naikuni and Mbugua. It took Joseph and Mikosz (hired by MJ) as complete outsiders to clean the Aegean Stables! Anyway, that's all history... Learn from it. Good luck with KQ. I hope it becomes investable sooner than later but I am sitting this out in favor of many other firms on the NSE. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote: KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO??
With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote: KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO??
With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round There are underlying issues which MJ cannot say before the media. This is a wise man who knows how to handle the media.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ebenyo wrote:Ericsson wrote:obiero wrote:Ericsson wrote:Kenya’s government and domestic lenders agreed to convert $405.3 million of Kenya Airways Plc debt into equity, giving the state a controlling stake and diluting other shareholders including Air France-KLM. The government, which has given Kenya Airways shilling and U.S.-dollar loans totaling $238.1 million, will increase its stake to 48.9 percent from 29.8 percent, according to statements published in the Nairobi-based Standard newspaper on Monday. Lenders owed $217.2 million will convert part of that debt into a 38.1 percent holding. “The government of Kenya shall acquire effective control in Kenya Airways and it shall make an application to the Capital Markets Authority for exemption from the take-over requirements in compliance with the Take-overs regulations,” Treasury Secretary Henry Rotich said. In addition to the debt-for-equity swap, the government and Kenya Airways entered a convertible-loan agreement for a remaining portion of state loans that will result in the issue of more shares at a future date, according to the statement. A similar agreement was reached with banks, whose stake will be housed in a company known as KQ Lenders Co., for $50 million of outstanding debt. https://www.bloomberg.co...ays-debt-to-equity-swap
So which paragraph points to the alleged 10 years.. It was in the prime time news yesterday Good riddance of KLM.They are responsible for the downfall of KQ.This is a right move that will enable the airline to stand on its feet. KLM wasn't the problem. The crooks running KQ were the problem. Naikuni, Mbugua and their crooked friends. Brian Presbury turned around KQ. Naikuni and his cronies destroyed it financially. Ngunze was handed a poisoned chalice. Sebastian and Joseph are now running the show. I wonder if minority shareholders should agree to Kenyans running KQ again after Joseph and Mikosz revive it. True...100% KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. An outright lie.
It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. KQ's downfall started when Naikuni and his merry band of crooks entered into contracts for NEW planes and fuel hedges so what decommissioned planes are you talking about? The board (mostly Kenyan) with strong representation by GoK could have scrutinized all deals. The 2 most powerful guys in management were both Kenyans and not Dutch.
Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Stop blaming KLM for corruption, incompetencies and impunity inflicted on Kenyans by Kenyans. Those hedges are suspect. Back in 2011-12, after I attended a roadshow by KQ and then read Project Mawingu's (Rights) IM, it seemed too ambitious. That's when I decided to bail and take a loss on KQ. I was burnt by Olympia, also run by a crook, and this looked very similar albeit much larger in scale. The Olympia CEO blamed everything and everyone but himself for a botched deal but my gut feeling is he did very well for himself. Warren Buffett says if you do not trust the management [& can't change it] do not invest in the firm. Even after the debacle post-Rights for KQ, it took 5 years to (fully) change the management. Even if you can change the management, you do not know the real rot inside. Even after Naikuni left, there was his co-pilot Mbugua. Then add all those in various positions who thrived under Naikuni and Mbugua. It took Joseph and Mikosz (hired by MJ) as complete outsiders to clean the Aegean Stables! Anyway, that's all history... Learn from it. Good luck with KQ. I hope it becomes investable sooner than later but I am sitting this out in favor of many other firms on the NSE. Why does it look like I am dealing with 'Wanjiku'. If KLM was serious about KQ as a strategic partner and a shareholder, they should have fired Alex, Naikuni, Mbugua and Company like Oanda of Supply chain. They benefited from the downfall and they are still benefiting to date. Look at how Emirates changed Air SriLanka and by extension the Angola's nation carrier before they opted out recently.KLM executives with their long aviation management experience should not have allowed incompetent people to run KQ at any point. KLM colluded especially with Alex and Naikuni to benefit from KQ. Why was Seabury consulting engaged to look into the joint venture if there was nothing wrong with it? Why did MJ travelled to Amsterdam for discussions around the joint venture? http://www.nation.co.ke/...05266-pwbo77/index.html
Quote:Both KLM and KQ agreed to offer competitive fares reflecting their connecting services.
But even with that, questions have been raised within Kenya Airways as to why KLM sells more out-of-East Africa tickets than KQ.
It is now known that KLM does not make any efforts to sell KQ tickets while KQ makes efforts to sell both its tickets and KLM’s.
The winner here remains KLM, which rakes in more revenue from Eastern Africa than KQ.
“This imbalance is indicative of a sales relationship in need of improvement,” says the Seabury report.
https://www.standardmedi...o-rethink-deal-with-klm
Quote:After the five-year initial period, the deal mutated into a 10-year strategic plan between KQ and KLM. The plan spelt out the routes the airlines would fly, the fleet size, type and the range to be covered. To align with the agreement, Kenya Airways had to revise its Memorandum and Articles of Association. Legal and aviation experts say this is the point at which KQ began the steady slide into technical insolvency. By the stroke of a pen, the Kenya Government and other shareholders lost all substantive commercial and administrative control of the national carrier to KLM. Quote:Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways. “When one partner in a joint venture agreement enjoys a veto on all substantial commercial and administrative decisions and especially where that partner is also a competitor then that is a takeover, it cannot be an agreement. This so-called agreement technically rendered Kenya Airways a subsidiary of KLM. Plainly told, Kenya Airways was literally auctioned. Somebody here or a group of people belong to jail,” he said. Mr Mbugua further said the resolution points to professional negligence. “It is unbelievable that Kenyans were busy hoping for a better national carrier while others were busy auctioning it. The law is very clear on the role of board members,” he said. Economic expert Aly-Khan Satchu has described the agreement as outrageous. Satchu said: “KLM has an apparent position of control and this signals that perhaps at the time we did not have a strong hand and evidently we played it poorly.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote: KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO??
With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round You basically do not understand the underlying issues. This is a complex matter for you given that you also failed to see the blunders that Ngunze committed. Where does ET/SAA get the support for their B737. MJ cannot publicly rebuke KLM/ point out the underlying issues. He knows there are issues with it. Why was Seabury consulting commissioned to look into it? Why did he traveled to Amsterdam for discussion around the JV with KLM CEO immediately he took over? I am basically arguing with a real 'wanjiku' here. KLM knew that people in KQ are incompetent and went ahead to take advantage of the situation instead of taking corrective measures so that the performance of the Airline improves but they never did anything. They instead used the opportunity to amend the agreement to favour them. Alex and Naikuni were made to sign the amended agreement without being to the board.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,084 Location: Nairobi
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By @ArrestedDev "Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways" KQ was already going down the crapper by 2012 when it successfully hoodwinked many Kenyans into subscribing to the Rights Issue. KLM also subscribed for more shares. I am not surprised that KLM tried to take corrective action in 2013 after KQ (Naikuni and his merry band of crooks) pissed away billions within 12 months. How could/did KLM "force" Naikuni and Mbugua to sign any substantive agreement without the permission/approval of the board? The board had many Kenyan directors including the Chairman (Evans Mwaniki, a lawyer (Dinesh Kapila), etc Let's call a spade a spade. The crooks were "Watu Wetu" not KLM. We had to get Michael Joseph (South African-American and recently now I think a Kenyan) and Mikosz (Polish) and others to clean up the huge financial mess. Mbugua is back courtesy of Kenyan courts and probably a godfather! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:By @ArrestedDev "Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways"
KQ was already going down the crapper by 2012 when it successfully hoodwinked many Kenyans into subscribing to the Rights Issue. KLM also subscribed for more shares.
I am not surprised that KLM tried to take corrective action in 2013 after KQ (Naikuni and his merry band of crooks) pissed away billions within 12 months.
How could/did KLM "force" Naikuni and Mbugua to sign any substantive agreement without the permission/approval of the board?
The board had many Kenyan directors including the Chairman (Evans Mwaniki, a lawyer (Dinesh Kapila), etc
Let's call a spade a spade. The crooks were "Watu Wetu" not KLM. We had to get Michael Joseph (South African-American and recently now I think a Kenyan) and Mikosz (Polish) and others to clean up the huge financial mess. Mbugua is back courtesy of Kenyan courts and probably a godfather! They had a role to play and hence cannot escape scrutiny. The executives in KLM saw it coming boss, If we can easily point out the blunders here on the forum what about experienced executives running one of the oldest airline in the world? KLM benefited and they continue to benefit from the mess that KQ found itself in. Alex & Naikuni being at the helm of KQ was a big mistake so to Ngunze. Little brains were left to mess an Airline which had been sorted out by Brian. I am not alone. Read the excerpts from the Seabury report. KLM knew all along people in KQ does not understand how the JV works and they never took time to explain to them. Representatives from KQ went to meetings with KLM representatives totally unprepared, these must have been the concubines appointed by Ngunze. At the board level, the executive directors e.g. CEO & Finance Director are the only ones who really understands the issues given the previous Chairmen did not have track records holding executive positions in the Corporate sector like that of Michael Joseph. Look at the interview MJ gave to Ali Khan Satchu, who else have ever done this among the former board chairs of KQ. They did not understand how things happened in the Co. Alex and Naikuni were the only ones lying to us through the media all the time and by extension Ngunze. It is clear to me that MJ is being careful with words while responding to the question on KLM. He understands the underlying issues and he cannot call out just like that in the media. Only those who read between the lines can comprehend these things. It is not for 'wanjiku', not easy at all to digest. See below editorial from the Standard published today. https://www.standardmedi...o-keep-kq-high-in-skies
Quote:KLM was brought in to prevent the airline from imminent collapse in a decision that was hailed at the time. But then, KQ made huge concessions that returned to haunt it later. Every major decision would only pass with the approval of the Dutch strategic partners, who were also running their competing business in the same space.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote: KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO??
With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round You basically do not understand the underlying issues. This is a complex matter for you given that you also failed to see the blunders that Ngunze committed. Where does ET/SAA get the support for their B737. MJ cannot publicly rebuke KLM/ point out the underlying issues. He knows there are issues with it. Why was Seabury consulting commissioned to look into it? Why did he traveled to Amsterdam for discussion around the JV with KLM CEO immediately he took over? I am basically arguing with a real 'wanjiku' here. KLM knew that people in KQ are incompetent and went ahead to take advantage of the situation instead of taking corrective measures so that the performance of the Airline improves but they never did anything. They instead used the opportunity to amend the agreement to favour them. Alex and Naikuni were made to sign the amended agreement without being to the board. I have said it here severally that I am indeed wanjiku and not a seasoned commercial aviation guru like @arresteddev. However, Michael Joseph even mentioned Uhuru in that clip as one of the people who had not understood the JV. At least if I am being lied to by the board chair, I am in the company of PORK Uhuru Kenyatta as someone who cannot grasp complex aviation industry matters. Meanwhile project mawingu bought several new planes so the decommissioning you refer to of old planes onto KQ, defeats logic.. In addition, GE services the double R engines so there would be no need to buy spare parts from a partner airline, where you seem to assume that KLM has some idle engines lying around, waiting to be offloaded to KQ. It would also be in good order for you to table the alleged Seabury mandate or report since their brief was not removal of KLM, which still remains a dear partner to KQ. Read here http://www.businessdaily...12/-/gxonmh/-/index.html HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,488 Location: nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:By @ArrestedDev "Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways"
KQ was already going down the crapper by 2012 when it successfully hoodwinked many Kenyans into subscribing to the Rights Issue. KLM also subscribed for more shares.
I am not surprised that KLM tried to take corrective action in 2013 after KQ (Naikuni and his merry band of crooks) pissed away billions within 12 months.
How could/did KLM "force" Naikuni and Mbugua to sign any substantive agreement without the permission/approval of the board?
The board had many Kenyan directors including the Chairman (Evans Mwaniki, a lawyer (Dinesh Kapila), etc
Let's call a spade a spade. The crooks were "Watu Wetu" not KLM. We had to get Michael Joseph (South African-American and recently now I think a Kenyan) and Mikosz (Polish) and others to clean up the huge financial mess. Mbugua is back courtesy of Kenyan courts and probably a godfather! They had a role to play and hence cannot escape scrutiny. The executives in KLM saw it coming boss, If we can easily point out the blunders here on the forum what about experienced executives running one of the oldest airline in the world? KLM benefited and they continue to benefit from the mess that KQ found itself in. Alex & Naikuni being at the helm of KQ was a big mistake so to Ngunze. Little brains were left to mess an Airline which had been sorted out by Brian. I am not alone. Read the excerpts from the Seabury report. KLM knew all along people in KQ does not understand how the JV works and they never took time to explain to them. Representatives from KQ went to meetings with KLM representatives totally unprepared, these must have been the concubines appointed by Ngunze. At the board level, the executive directors e.g. CEO & Finance Director are the only ones who really understands the issues given the previous Chairmen did not have track records holding executive positions in the Corporate sector like that of Michael Joseph. Look at the interview MJ gave to Ali Khan Satchu, who else have ever done this among the former board chairs of KQ. They did not understand how things happened in the Co. Alex and Naikuni were the only ones lying to us through the media all the time and by extension Ngunze. It is clear to me that MJ is being careful with words while responding to the question on KLM. He understands the underlying issues and he cannot call out just like that in the media. Only those who read between the lines can comprehend these things. It is not for 'wanjiku', not easy at all to digest. See below editorial from the Standard published today. https://www.standardmedi...o-keep-kq-high-in-skies
Quote:KLM was brought in to prevent the airline from imminent collapse in a decision that was hailed at the time. But then, KQ made huge concessions that returned to haunt it later. Every major decision would only pass with the approval of the Dutch strategic partners, who were also running their competing business in the same space. Evanson Mwaniki as well as Dennis Awori are not mediocre fellows as you want to insinuate.. Who is the Chair of Safaricom and how many interviews has he given? What about Munga at EQTY or Ngeny of KCB.. Appearing weekly on the screens doesn't necessarily mean that the company is better managed HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:[quote=obiero] KLM saved KQ.. They gave almost as much as Ngunze gave to KQ. These two should not be abused.. I was quite happy to see Ngunze at yesterday's brief. He is still on KQs payroll. Shadow CEO?? With the veto powers KLM had and the expertise spanning hundreds of years in aviation management, they could have easily pointed out the management mistakes made by the executives in KQ. It is very clear that they benefitted and still continue to benefit from the downfall of KQ. Their shareholding in KQ ensures they have a market for aircrafts decommissioned from their fleet, sale of spare parts to KQ at inflated prices and so on. Anyone supporting KLM does not understand the issues at hand. Well at least those who don't know what the KLM positive impact on KQ means, does not include Michael Joseph https://citizentv.co.ke/...-of-jv-with-klm-147958/
Watch this speech by Chairman KQ from minute 11 to understand why KQ needs KLM more than the other way round You basically do not understand the underlying issues. This is a complex matter for you given that you also failed to see the blunders that Ngunze committed. Where does ET/SAA get the support for their B737. MJ cannot publicly rebuke KLM/ point out the underlying issues. He knows there are issues with it. Why was Seabury consulting commissioned to look into it? Why did he traveled to Amsterdam for discussion around the JV with KLM CEO immediately he took over? I am basically arguing with a real 'wanjiku' here. KLM knew that people in KQ are incompetent and went ahead to take advantage of the situation instead of taking corrective measures so that the performance of the Airline improves but they never did anything. They instead used the opportunity to amend the agreement to favour them. Alex and Naikuni were made to sign the amended agreement without being to the board. I have said it here severally that I am indeed wanjiku and not a seasoned commercial aviation guru like @arresteddev. However, Michael Joseph even mentioned Uhuru in that clip as one of the people who had not understood the JV. At least if I am being lied to by the board chair, I am in the company of PORK Uhuru Kenyatta as someone who cannot grasp complex aviation industry matters. Meanwhile project mawingu bought several new planes so the decommissioning you refer to of old planes onto KQ, defeats logic.. In addition, GE services the double R engines so there would be no need to buy spare parts from a partner airline, where you seem to assume that KLM has some idle engines lying around, waiting to be offloaded to KQ. It would also be in good order for you to table the alleged Seabury mandate or report since their brief was not removal of KLM, which still remains a dear partner to KQ. Read here http://www.businessdaily...2/-/gxonmh/-/index.html[/quote] I am not arguing with you on this anymore. You are mixing issues. In the interview if you have listened to it. MJ talks of the support that KLM provides to KQ in justifying the question asked. I have asked you in the post where SAA/ET get their support for their B737 for example. I am demonstrating to you that MJ is not washing dirty linen in the public. He is being careful with the choice of words. Do not put words in my mouth that I said KQ is buying engines from KLM. KQ bought old B737 from KLM which were later sold at throw away prices within a short period making KQ to incur huge losses ( BILLIONS).The purchase and sale of the planes were unearthed during the forensic audit. https://www.standardmedi...-at-a-throw-away-sh210m
"We determined that the two aircraft had been purchased at USD20.52 million in 2010 from KLM and later sold at a combined price of USD2.1 million in 2015 to Engage Aviation LLC. Prior to the sale in 2015, an independent review of the potential value of the two aircraft was stated at USD6 million,”
Seabury looked into the JV. I have posted the findings on this forum.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:By @ArrestedDev "Consequently, the amendments were effected in September 2013. Legal commercial expert Mbugua Ng’ang’a described the move as one that technically auctioned Kenya Airways"
KQ was already going down the crapper by 2012 when it successfully hoodwinked many Kenyans into subscribing to the Rights Issue. KLM also subscribed for more shares.
I am not surprised that KLM tried to take corrective action in 2013 after KQ (Naikuni and his merry band of crooks) pissed away billions within 12 months.
How could/did KLM "force" Naikuni and Mbugua to sign any substantive agreement without the permission/approval of the board?
The board had many Kenyan directors including the Chairman (Evans Mwaniki, a lawyer (Dinesh Kapila), etc
Let's call a spade a spade. The crooks were "Watu Wetu" not KLM. We had to get Michael Joseph (South African-American and recently now I think a Kenyan) and Mikosz (Polish) and others to clean up the huge financial mess. Mbugua is back courtesy of Kenyan courts and probably a godfather! They had a role to play and hence cannot escape scrutiny. The executives in KLM saw it coming boss, If we can easily point out the blunders here on the forum what about experienced executives running one of the oldest airline in the world? KLM benefited and they continue to benefit from the mess that KQ found itself in. Alex & Naikuni being at the helm of KQ was a big mistake so to Ngunze. Little brains were left to mess an Airline which had been sorted out by Brian. I am not alone. Read the excerpts from the Seabury report. KLM knew all along people in KQ does not understand how the JV works and they never took time to explain to them. Representatives from KQ went to meetings with KLM representatives totally unprepared, these must have been the concubines appointed by Ngunze. At the board level, the executive directors e.g. CEO & Finance Director are the only ones who really understands the issues given the previous Chairmen did not have track records holding executive positions in the Corporate sector like that of Michael Joseph. Look at the interview MJ gave to Ali Khan Satchu, who else have ever done this among the former board chairs of KQ. They did not understand how things happened in the Co. Alex and Naikuni were the only ones lying to us through the media all the time and by extension Ngunze. It is clear to me that MJ is being careful with words while responding to the question on KLM. He understands the underlying issues and he cannot call out just like that in the media. Only those who read between the lines can comprehend these things. It is not for 'wanjiku', not easy at all to digest. See below editorial from the Standard published today. https://www.standardmedi...o-keep-kq-high-in-skies
Quote:KLM was brought in to prevent the airline from imminent collapse in a decision that was hailed at the time. But then, KQ made huge concessions that returned to haunt it later. Every major decision would only pass with the approval of the Dutch strategic partners, who were also running their competing business in the same space. Evanson Mwaniki as well as Dennis Awori are not mediocre fellows as you want to insinuate.. Who is the Chair of Safaricom and how many interviews has he given? What about Munga at EQTY or Ngeny of KCB.. Appearing weekly on the screens doesn't necessarily mean that the company is better managed Which track record of every day management of a Co. does Mwaniki and Awori have? Just being in the board? The late Reuben Marambii of NBK is better than the above fellows you are referring to. You are glorifying characters who allowed shaddy deals to go on. Characters who were appointed because they have the political connections and hence can influence the likes of Toyota to get government contracts? We know these issues. I need people like Oduor Otieno of KCB.Someone who left a consistent track record of performance.
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