wazua Thu, Apr 16, 2026
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

10 Pages«<23456>»
I am voting No
Pastor M
#31 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:07:57 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
The thread's title is "I am Voting No",
so if you are voting yes start another thread call it "I am Voting Yes".

Allow us to discuss among ourselves right now we are busy d'oh! reading the draft hoping its the correct draft we might hear there are others released by the AG.

Can we have more like what Cardinal Applause Applause posted.
and less of Shame on you Shame on you Wendz,chepkel,nanfor in this thread please
masukuma
#32 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:09:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
@chepkel, its our reason. Not yours. we don't want to rubber stamp an illegality.
someone can choose a flimsy reason, such as - i don't like Nzamba Kitonga and will not certify any of his work. he has a democratic right to do that.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kingfisher
#33 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:15:26 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
mimi iko kwa NO camp

how on earth can you have a constitution allowing everyone the right to go on strike, even the disciplined forces??
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
Surealligator
#34 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:19:14 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 709
Location: Velayat-e Faryab
Brewer wrote:
Wendz, you listened to a lawyer say that? Ouch! The clause on abortion says that abortion is not permitted except where:
a) a trained health provisional forms the opinion that there is need for emergency treatment or life or health of the mother is in danger, or
b)as may be permitted by any other written law.
The a) part above is loaded with heavy exceptions that make the general statement "abortion is not permitted" almost meaningless. And as if that was not enough, the b) part states that more exceptions are coming. It is almost laughable except that we are dealing with such a serious issue that someone, not least a lawyer, can then say without qualification that 'abortion is not permitted'.

Nanfor1 you throw wild and wide blows!


This is a letter doing the rounds and has made me think again.

Katiba Watch Team
STOP PRESS: Code language for permitting abortionists to decide “Right to Life.”
What started as a straightforward and noble protection of the right to life—a constitutional ban on abortion except where medically necessary to save a woman’s life—has been turned completely on its head.
In the latest version rewritten by the “Committee of Experts” (CoE), the “right to life” has been slyly transformed into a constitutional right to abortion. Comparing the versions of earlier drafts shows what has happened. The original Harmonised Draft (November 2009) and the Revised Harmonised Draft (January 2010) submitted by the CoE to the Parliamentary Select Committee (PSC), both protected the “Right to Life.” Indeed, it is the first freedom listed in the Bill of Rights: “Every person has the right to life.”
Under the Constitution of Kenya Review Act of 2008, the CoE was required to submit the draft to the Parliamentary Select Committee (PSC) for its “deliberation and consensus building on the contentious issues.” This occurred at January’s important meeting at Naivasha. The PSC enhanced and clarified the “Right to Life” by adding that “The life of a person begins at conception” and specifically prohibiting abortion except to save the mother’s life: “Abortion is not permitted unless in the opinion of a registered medical practitioner, the life of the mother is in danger.”This reflected a consensus that Kenya’s constitution should protect life and prohibit abortion.
At this point, the Constitution of Kenya Review Act of 2008 directed the CoE to “revise the draft Constitution taking into account the achieved consensus” and submit the draft to the PSC, which would then lay it before Parliament. The CoE did not do this. It did not revise the draft to reflect “the achieved consensus” at Naivasha. On the contrary, the CoE hijacked the “Right to Life” entirely, turning it instead into a right to abortion.
Article 26(4) now provides: “Abortion is not permitted unless, in the opinion of a trained health professional, there is a need for emergency treatment, or the life or health of the mother is in danger, or if permitted by any other written law.”This provision completely negates the right to life in four ways.
1. First, it changes the decision-maker from a “registered medical practitioner” to any “trained health professional.” Thus, it need not be a doctor or nurse who makes the medical judgment that an abortion is necessary; it can be any professional “trained” in “health,” whether certified or not. This is code language for permitting abortionists to decide whether an abortion should be permitted.
2. Second, the PSC consensus at Naivasha only permitted abortion when “the life of the mother is in danger.” The CoE re-wrote this to permit abortion when “the life or health” of the mother is in danger. What does “health” include? How broad is this exception? Unfortunately, America provides a bad example. The phrase “health of the mother” is a term-of-art in American constitutional law concerning abortion. It means that the mother may choose abortion for any physical, emotional, psychological, social, financial, or “family” reason she chooses. The effect, in America, is to permit abortion for any reason, throughout all nine months of pregnancy, as a matter of constitutional right. This language is not in the U.S. Constitution, but comes from the U.S. Supreme Court’s infamous decision in the case of Roe v. Wade, which created an unlimited right to abortion in America by using a trick definition of “health” in a companion decision, Doe v. Bolton. But the “health of the mother” language is in the proposed Constitution of Kenya. It is therefore very likely that this language may be interpreted by courts and government officials in Kenya as creating a right to abortion for any reason throughout pregnancy, after the fashion of America.
3. Third, the CoE’s new version explicitly provides that abortion may be made legal if “permitted by any other written law.” In other words, the constitutional right to life may be entirely nullified, simply by passing a new law, without changing the constitution. This means that the right to life is really no constitutional right at all.
4. Fourth, the exception for “emergency treatment” means something more than protecting the life or health of the mother. Otherwise, this language would have no effect. The CoE added this language. To what does “emergency treatment” refer, if not protecting life or health? A likely answer is that “emergency treatment” is code language for “emergency contraception” that works by producing an early abortion after conception has occurred.
There is one more provision of the current draft that further reinforces the right to abortion. Under Article 43 of the CoE’s latest version, “every person” has the constitutional right to “health care services, including reproductive health care.” In America, the phrase “reproductive health care” is polite language for abortion. In America, one of the debates over health care is whether abortion is truly “health care.” “Reproductive health care” is the code term that is used when abortion is what is meant.
Because Article 43 of the current draft appears to provide an affirmative right to “reproductive health” services, this language probably provides a social-welfare entitlement to publicly-provided or publicly-funded abortions.
In short, the current draft provides a constitutional right to abortion, for any reason, throughout all nine months of pregnancy, paid for by all Kenyans. These are dramatic changes from the earlier versions of the proposed constitution. Nothing like this was in any of the earlier drafts.
Article 26 is a completely new invention. It completely undermines the right to life. Indeed, it produces its opposite. It creates a right to abortion.
Go overdrive in purchasing the goods when there's blood on the streets, expecially if the blood is your own
nanfor1
#35 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:23:01 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
@King now that is something to consider. At last something that people can argue about.

@Pastor is that you can't deal with facts. You guys have run rough shod on this forum with blatant lies and misinformation. When we call you out, you start quoting another bible verse.

Can you guys please tell me exactly what you are doing right now to save the 300 plus abortions going on today in Kenya.

Let us not talk about the future. Let us talk about NOW.

Since you want us to vote no because of abortion. Does it mean that right now as we speak, the current constitution has STOPPED abortions?

Again I reiterate. There is no abortion in the proposed constitution, unless you have not read it and have been listening to a bunch of right wing christians with an agenda they have yet to tell us.

It will be a tragedy to vote no for an excuse as this.

Tell us right now, what is your clergy doing to arrest the doctors who as we are on wazua are performing another abortion. If you have done nothing about it since Kenya was independent, then let us move on to a new one that will allow us to have a police force that is well paid and with enough mettle to deal with these issues.
Hata wakizima taa
Tebes
#36 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:27:02 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
@Mukiha
Me too. Abortion will not affect my vote as I believe that is a moral issue. Kadhi's courts are both in the current and proposed constitution.

@Masukuma,
If you dont want to rubber stamp an illegallity as you say, you can choose to abstain. Voting is voluntary. Again if you vote no, we go back to the old constitution that promoted impunity.
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
Mpenzi
#37 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:30:43 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
@Pastor M
This is not an exclusive ghetto of Naysayers. We must encourage discussion between the Yes and No groups.
Brewer
#38 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:37:04 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
nanfor1 wrote:
.....

Again I reiterate. There is no abortion in the proposed constitution,......


Without butting an eyelid!
Tebes
#39 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:40:17 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
@King..
The proposed draft limits application of rights or fundamental freedoms, in a number of provisions which include
a)privacy,
b)freedom of association,
c)assembly, demonstration, picketing or petition,
d)labour relations
e)economic and social rights

to persons serving in the Kenya Defence force or National Police Service.

Please read Article 24(5)
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
Soko tele
#40 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:45:02 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/19/2008
Posts: 60
@Nanforl .........Kindly google the meaning of " reproductive health care" and post that defination here.

You say we should not bother about abortion because its still happening, on the same breathe can we give up on corruption because nothing happens and there are laws about it.

Or should we not jail someone for killing since we did not stop them from killing in the first place.

Article 43 (1)is a pseudo name for abortion on demand

10 Pages«<23456>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2026 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.