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Lionel Andres Messi
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2012 Posts: 3,855 Location: Othumo
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Our own Wanyama Mugubi and he scored on that day  Thieves
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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mzeiya411 wrote:poundfoolish wrote:A player achieves greatness status if he is able to propell not only his club but his country in the World Cup... as much as the boy is very outstanding..the real show is in S.A.
If you guys ever watched Pele and his famous rounding several swedish defenders, Maradona with the stumbling run from mid pitch to goal, Bebeto pushing Italy to the finals in Atlanta only to miss a crucial penalty...
The Icing is always in the duty to country..
otherwise Messi Shall be remembered with the likes of [b]Ronaldihno[/b], Ronaldo(portugal), Figo etc.. and that list is endless... Dude kindly scratch Dinho from that list he has won major trophies. if it wasn't for motivation Dinho was one of the greatest entertainers we will ever see I think Messi had an identical run from mid pitch just as Maradona did. The season after Ronaldinho won the Fifa Player of the year,he did an interview where he "joked" that how he couldn't be the best in the world when he wasn't even the best at Nou Camp. At that time, Messi was donning number 19. He might not have won the world cup yet but discrediting him for that reason only would be harsh and asking too much. What IF Maradona had been born in a country like Swaziland,would we have expected him to have won the world cup in order for him to be a legend? If i have to rate Messi, he would be on the same line with Pele and Maradona because with the kind of defence Argentina have,it would be hard not to concede goals. Maybe Messi's time with destiny will come on S.American soil. I wonder what CR7 fans will concoct then.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Quote:
The illogical nature of this kind of argument means that had Messi played horribly in the Maracana but managed to end up on the winning team against Germany then thousands would rush to certify him ‘the greatest’, whereas a hat-trick in an Argentina loss wouldn’t have been enough to satisfy the same judges. The truth is, judging any player’s stature on a one-off game is a flawed exercise in itself.
As a Scot, I may want to convince myself that James McFadden is one of the all time greats because of an incredible goal he scored against France, but let’s be honest, there’s much more to his career than only that moment. Just as there is to Messi’s. Look at the whole, not an individual part, and Messi’s story is clear.
Many of those that have previously rushed to laud Messi for being an extraterrestrial will now turn to a different kind of opportunism in the wake of Argentina’s loss. The insults will be thick and cheap, at least until he does something a brilliant again. For the rest of us, for those capable of looking at the whole, and with a memory with the capacity to stretch back further than the last three months, his brilliance is undoubted.
http://talksport.com/foo...-he-already-140713101505
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Another miss at the Copa America Finals
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Enyewe Messi cannot ever be compared to all time greats like Pele and Maradona.
Messi has always been surrounded by excellent players. If you look at Maradona for example, you will realize that he literally carried Argentina on his shoulders and led them to a world cup victory. This was an Argentina team devoid of good players. They had clowns like Burruchaga and Valdano
Then Maradona led Napoli to an Italian league title and a UEFA cup. And that Napoli team was not that hood either.
Pele did not just win the world cup at age 17, he scored two goals in the final. Then he scored again in the world cup final 12 years later and added a glorious assist.
I put Messi in the 2nd tier with kina Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Platini.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Quote:Statistically at least, Messi outscores Maradona in almost every department, with 46 goals in 103 international appearances compared to Maradona’s 34 goals in 91 games.
At club level Messi has amassed 412 goals in 482 games, compared to Maradona’s 312 in 588 matches.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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Lolest! wrote:Quote:Statistically at least, Messi outscores Maradona in almost every department, with 46 goals in 103 international appearances compared to Maradona’s 34 goals in 91 games.
At club level Messi has amassed 412 goals in 482 games, compared to Maradona’s 312 in 588 matches. Its not the number of goals, but the importance of them... Na naskia kamtu kalinuna and didn't pick up the MVP award... Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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Alba wrote:Enyewe Messi cannot ever be compared to all time greats like Pele and Maradona.
Messi has always been surrounded by excellent players. If you look at Maradona for example, you will realize that he literally carried Argentina on his shoulders and led them to a world cup victory. This was an Argentina team devoid of good players. They had clowns like Burruchaga and Valdano
Then Maradona led Napoli to an Italian league title and a UEFA cup. And that Napoli team was not that hood either.
Pele did not just win the world cup at age 17, he scored two goals in the final. Then he scored again in the world cup final 12 years later and added a glorious assist.
I put Messi in the 2nd tier with kina Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Platini. Oh please!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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 ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Today in 2015, Argentina is a star studded squad with players all over Europes top teams. Back in 1986, Maradona carried a group of no-names to the world cup trophy. After Maradona, their best player was Valdano and he was a bench warmer at Madrid. Quote:
D.O.B. CLUB WC
1 FW Sergio Almiron 18 Nov 1958 Newell's Old Boys
2 MD Sergio Batista 09 Nov 1962 Argentinos Juniors
3 MD Ricardo Bochini 25 Jan 1954 Independiente
4 FW Claudio Borghi 28 Sep 1964 Argentinos Juniors
5 DF Jose Luis Brown 10 Nov 1956 Boca Juniors
6 DF Daniel Passarella 25 May 1953 AC Fiorentina (ITA) 1978,82
7 MD Jorge Burruchaga 09 Oct 1962 FC Nantes (FRA)
8 DF Nestor Clausen 29 Sep 1962 Independiente
9 DF Jose Cuciuffo 01 Feb 1961 Velez Sarsfield
10 MD Diego Maradona 30 Oct 1960 Napoli (ITA) 1982
11 FW Jorge Valdano 04 Oct 1955 Real Madrid (SPA) 1982
12 MD Hector Enrique 26 Apr 1962 River Plate
13 DF Oscar Garre 09 Dec 1956 Ferro Carril Oeste
14 MD Ricardo Giusti 11 Dec 1956 Independiente
15 GK Luis Islas 22 Dec 1965 Estudiantes
16 MD Julio Olarticoechea 18 Oct 1958 Boca Juniors 1982
17 FW Pedro Pasculli 17 May 1960 Lecce (ITA)
18 GK Nery Pumpido 30 Jul 1957 River Plate 1982
19 DF Oscar Ruggeri 26 Jan 1962 River Plate
20 MD Carlos Tapia 20 Aug 1962 Boca Juniors
21 MD Marcelo Trobbiani 17 Feb 1955 Elche (SPA)
22 GK Hector Zelada 30 Apr 1957 America (MEX)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Jus Blazin wrote:Lolest! wrote:Quote:Statistically at least, Messi outscores Maradona in almost every department, with 46 goals in 103 international appearances compared to Maradona’s 34 goals in 91 games.
At club level Messi has amassed 412 goals in 482 games, compared to Maradona’s 312 in 588 matches. Its not the number of goals, but the importance of them... Na naskia kamtu kalinuna and didn't pick up the MVP award... Very true, its what you can do when under the spotlight at the biggest stage that matters. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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Messi haters are many, but the boy is good. Just bad luck with the national team! Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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ecstacy wrote:Alba wrote:Enyewe Messi cannot ever be compared to all time greats like Pele and Maradona.
Messi has always been surrounded by excellent players. If you look at Maradona for example, you will realize that he literally carried Argentina on his shoulders and led them to a world cup victory. This was an Argentina team devoid of good players. They had clowns like Burruchaga and Valdano
Then Maradona led Napoli to an Italian league title and a UEFA cup. And that Napoli team was not that hood either.
Pele did not just win the world cup at age 17, he scored two goals in the final. Then he scored again in the world cup final 12 years later and added a glorious assist.
I put Messi in the 2nd tier with kina Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Platini. Oh please! comparing players across different generations leave alone in the same generation is a void activity. Pele and Diego are players who thrived when the media had control on who they wanted to be a superstar
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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nakujua wrote:
comparing players across different generations leave alone in the same generation is a void activity.
Pele and Diego are players who thrived when the media had control on who they wanted to be a superstar
1. Why is comparing players a void activity? 2. Are you saying the media decided that Pele and Maradona were the greatest players? How exactly did they accomplish that?
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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Othelo wrote:Messi haters are many, but the boy is good. Just bad luck with the national team! True, also add that he is a grumpy loser. They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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I like Messi but ol boy Edson Arantes do Nascimento is still the greatest ever. Messi bado hawesmake when compared to Edson. This is pic of him training a Kenyan team possibly Harambee stars at Jamhuri park in 1976  Back in the 70s when Pele came to Kenya, he also asked to train the Kenya youth team under 16. Instead well connected politicians sent their sons to be trained by Pele and he was told that this was the youth team.  PS: Nobody hates Messi. You cannot take it too personally if someone says he not at the level of Pele and Maradona.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Alba wrote:nakujua wrote:
comparing players across different generations leave alone in the same generation is a void activity.
Pele and Diego are players who thrived when the media had control on who they wanted to be a superstar
1. Why is comparing players a void activity? 2. Are you saying the media decided that Pele and Maradona were the greatest players? How exactly did they accomplish that? By telling you that over and over again, then you got to believe them  - in team sports best player is subjective, ama do you want to tell me harry kane is better than aguero, or pogba is better than theo, or degea is better than oliver khan, or bale is better than suarez, or buffon is better than messi, ama ronaldo is better than ronaldo, ama maldini is better than that england goal keeper who saved pele's header the media feeds you with the best tag and you choose to accept that or not, hakuna measure ya greatness, at least not in football.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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nakujua wrote:By telling you that over and over again, then you got to believe them - in team sports best player is subjective, ama do you want to tell me harry kane is better than aguero, or pogba is better than theo, or degea is better than oliver khan, or bale is better than suarez, or buffon is better than messi, ama ronaldo is better than ronaldo, ama maldini is better than that england goal keeper who saved pele's header the media feeds you with the best tag and you choose to accept that or not, hakuna measure ya greatness, at least not in football. There are measures of greatness: 1. Goals scored at club and national team level. 2. Goals scored in crucial games 3. Number of trophies won at club and international level: This measures how well a player improves the performance of his team -mates 4. Individual skills: Dribbling, passing efficiency, heading power, heading accuracy, first touch, accuracy of crosses 5. All round play: Is a player one dimensional or do they score in several different ways? 6. Level of difficulty: Did a player lift a poor team to greater heights or was he always playing with excellent team-mates. 6. Dead ball skills: How often does a player score on free-kicks? These are just some objective stats. I believe you can think of more.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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@Nakujua
Media has never told me who the best player is. Comparing players is rather easy:
1. Abbas is the greatest goalkeeper Kenya ever produced. His penalty saving exploits led to numerous trophies for AFC Leopards and for Harambee stars. Others may have similar shot stopping skills but Abbas towers over everyone else for his impact. Media did not tell me that.
2. I think Oliech is the greatest striker Kenya has ever produced because of his individual attributes. In his prime before he was injury prone, he literally carried Harambee stars on his shoulders in a manner that no one else ever has. To date he is the Kenyan striker who thrived in a top tier European league
3. Roger Milla is the greatest striker Africa ever produced. Look at how he sliced and diced defenses at the world cup. He scored more world cup goals than any other African. he top-scored the AFCON several times. He broke into European leagues when it was almost impossible for Africans.
And Finally Pele is better than Maradona who is in turn better than Messi because
a. Pele won the world cup three times and scored crucial goals in crucial games including finals.
b. Pele Was a better passer: Look at the passes he delivered that led to goals in the 1970 finals.
c. Was a better all round player: he scored with his head and with either foot
d. Maradona scored the greatest individual goal ever at a world cup.
e. Played for lower teams like Napoli and made them relevant and even led them to a league win.
f. Maradona was a world cup winner
g. Maradona carried an Argentina team that was relatively devoid of talent
Media did not tell me this. These are objective stats. The media never agrees on who is the best player so how can they tell me?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2009 Posts: 2,863
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nakujua wrote:........ or pogba is better than theo...... Wrong choice of example. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
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