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Robert Mugabe
mpobiz
#31 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2019 11:10:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,265
https://youtu.be/1NpjFiM4TQk
I was watching this and realized that we also have our own Mugabe. He needs to retire early to avoid a coup. he has been aaround for too long now people see him as a small god. They have started kneeling before him. Shindwe!!
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
2012
#32 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 12:13:42 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
2012 wrote:
Rest in peace Bob.

I hope he had left power earlier then he would have been held up in mention with the greats in Africa; Mandela, Nyerere, Nkuruma and the likes.


Mandera was worst. Only whites love him coz he cooled down the angry blacks after apartheid ended and thus prevented a massacre and dispossession of msungus with his rainbow nation nonsense. Otherwise he did nothing for the black man.


That's not fair to Mandela. He was a transitional one-term president. If he had gone against the whites, SA economy would have crashed. The whites were well educated and controlled all the important aspects of the nation. I'm sure Mandela hated as he could not have made any drastic moves. The xenophobia there shows you that Mandela made the right move, can you imagine if the first black president was an angry black man like Malema? He also did not want the whites as a 'new' minority to start receiving sympathy from the world. It was a very tough balancing act for him and he did very well. I also heard that some timelines were agreed on amounts of land being surrendered back slowly over time in the independence negotiations... but I'm not well informed on that matter, maybe someone here has more details.

BBI will solve it
:)
Gathige
#33 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 10:24:55 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
2012 wrote:
hardwood wrote:
2012 wrote:
Rest in peace Bob.

I hope he had left power earlier then he would have been held up in mention with the greats in Africa; Mandela, Nyerere, Nkuruma and the likes.


Mandera was worst. Only whites love him coz he cooled down the angry blacks after apartheid ended and thus prevented a massacre and dispossession of msungus with his rainbow nation nonsense. Otherwise he did nothing for the black man.


That's not fair to Mandela. He was a transitional one-term president. If he had gone against the whites, SA economy would have crashed. The whites were well educated and controlled all the important aspects of the nation. I'm sure Mandela hated as he could not have made any drastic moves. The xenophobia there shows you that Mandela made the right move, can you imagine if the first black president was an angry black man like Malema? He also did not want the whites as a 'new' minority to start receiving sympathy from the world. It was a very tough balancing act for him and he did very well. I also heard that some timelines were agreed on amounts of land being surrendered back slowly over time in the independence negotiations... but I'm not well informed on that matter, maybe someone here has more details.


I have watched the clips on the violence in SA and my conclusion is that our SA brothers need serious help. Years of oppression where the only meaningful work was toiling in the mines, farms, while living in shanties had a devastating effect on them psychologically. The anger in Malema typically expresses the psyche of the blacks.

ANC has failed them terribly. Mandela set the tone, Zuma messed the Mbeki years, and subsequently sold SA to Indians during his term. Cyril is part of what Malema calls" white monopoly capital" and is soo deep in the white economy. The factionalism in ANC is soo deep and factions always plotting on how to bring down the president. Too much corruption deals/past among the key leaders like DP, Secretary General and others.

The boers should just take back power and run the place before it degenerates to another Congo.




"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
hardwood
#34 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 11:15:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
The Daily Nation agrees with me 100% that Mugabe was a great leader....

https://www.nation.co.ke...4644-13uqnwoz/index.html
hardwood
#35 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 2:51:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
radiomast wrote:
hardwood wrote:
2012 wrote:
Rest in peace Bob.

I hope he had left power earlier then he would have been held up in mention with the greats in Africa; Mandela, Nyerere, Nkuruma and the likes.


Mandera was worst. Only whites love him coz he cooled down the angry blacks after apartheid ended and thus prevented a massacre and dispossession of msungus with his rainbow nation nonsense. Otherwise he did nothing for the black man.



@hardwood

Mandela's crime according to you is that he cooled down angry blacks.

Mugabe's crime which is well documented is that he killed 20,000 black African people during the genocide he called Gukurahundi.

Which one is worse?



Mugabe answers your question regarding gukurahundi. Before and after independence there was rivalry between mugabe's ZANU and Joshua Nkomo's ZAPU. After Mugabe took power at independence ZAPU and their ndebele supporters then imported arms from the soviet union to topple mugabe. It is Nyerere who informed Mugabe about the arm imports through dar es salam port. Then Mugabe sent the army to mop up the arms which had been distributed to the ZAPU ndebele supporters, just like any leader would have done. Did you want Mugabe to sit back and do nothing?

hardwood
#36 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 3:37:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
hardwood wrote:
radiomast wrote:
hardwood wrote:
2012 wrote:
Rest in peace Bob.

I hope he had left power earlier then he would have been held up in mention with the greats in Africa; Mandela, Nyerere, Nkuruma and the likes.


Mandera was worst. Only whites love him coz he cooled down the angry blacks after apartheid ended and thus prevented a massacre and dispossession of msungus with his rainbow nation nonsense. Otherwise he did nothing for the black man.



@hardwood

Mandela's crime according to you is that he cooled down angry blacks.

Mugabe's crime which is well documented is that he killed 20,000 black African people during the genocide he called Gukurahundi.

Which one is worse?



Mugabe answers your question regarding gukurahundi. Before and after independence there was rivalry between mugabe's ZANU and Joshua Nkomo's ZAPU. After Mugabe took power at independence ZAPU and their ndebele supporters then imported arms from the soviet union to topple mugabe. It is Nyerere who informed Mugabe about the arm imports through dar es salam port. Then Mugabe sent the army to mop up the arms which had been distributed to the ZAPU ndebele supporters, just like any leader would have done. Did you want Mugabe to sit back and do nothing?



Also note that it is the current president Mnagangwa who was the Minister for State security then and was in charge of operation Gukurahundi.

https://mg.co.za/article...i-ghosts-haunt-mnangagwa
radiomast
#37 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 4:36:43 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
@hardwood.
Lets says that mugabe is right that ZAPU was trying to import weapons and that said weapons were impounded by Nyerere at the Dar es Salaam port. What should the correct course of action be?

I believe he should have arrested the ZAPU dissidents, produced the evidenced and have them sentenced in a court of law. Even detention of dissidents would have been semi-acceptable. Instead what did he do?

He went about killing 20,000 Ndebele civilians.

1. Any Ndebele of fighting age was considered a dissident and shot in the head.
2. Young Ndebele men were forced to dig their own graves and then shot in front of their families
3. Even ordinary teachers, farmers, councillors etc were summarily shot
4. A harmless mentally dissturbed woman had boiling water poured on her
5. Women were raped by ZANU soldiers
6. Homes were burned down
7. Starvation was used as a weapon by destroying crops and closing shops
8. Government food aid was stopped
9 . Only bars were left open so that ZANU soldiers could drink heavily before going to beat civilians
10. A muzungu missionary was beaten senseless for trying to protect his maid from beatings and rape


Are you suggesting that indiscriminate murder , rape , torture and starvation of civilians is an appropriate reaction to ZAPU leaders importing weapons?

Also
The ring leader of Gukurahundi Brigadier General Emile Munemo admitted that the whole exercise was about retribution because according to him, Ndebele feel superior to Shona and they had aold scores to settle. It was not about the shipment of arms as you claim.
hardwood
#38 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 5:23:53 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
radiomast wrote:
@hardwood.
Lets says that mugabe is right that ZAPU was trying to import weapons and that said weapons were impounded by Nyerere at the Dar es Salaam port. What should the correct course of action be?

I believe he should have arrested the ZAPU dissidents, produced the evidenced and have them sentenced in a court of law. Even detention of dissidents would have been semi-acceptable. Instead what did he do?

He went about killing 20,000 Ndebele civilians.

1. Any Ndebele of fighting age was considered a dissident and shot in the head.
2. Young Ndebele men were forced to dig their own graves and then shot in front of their families
3. Even ordinary teachers, farmers, councillors etc were summarily shot
4. A harmless mentally dissturbed woman had boiling water poured on her
5. Women were raped by ZANU soldiers
6. Homes were burned down
7. Starvation was used as a weapon by destroying crops and closing shops
8. Government food aid was stopped
9 . Only bars were left open so that ZANU soldiers could drink heavily before going to beat civilians
10. A muzungu missionary was beaten senseless for trying to protect his maid from beatings and rape


Are you suggesting that indiscriminate murder , rape , torture and starvation of civilians is an appropriate reaction to ZAPU leaders importing weapons?

Also
The ring leader of Gukurahundi Brigadier General Emile Munemo admitted that the whole exercise was about retribution because according to him, Ndebele feel superior to Shona and they had aold scores to settle. It was not about the shipment of arms as you claim.


Weapons had already been distributed huko mashinani. Nyerere only impounded one consignment. It was the govts job to mop up the weapons. And you do know what happens when the army is sent to a village to recover weapons. Even hapa kenia villagers flee when they hear that GSU is coming for an operation to recover just one lost weapon. All am saying is that it was mugabe govt's job to ensure that no weapons were in the hands of ZAPU and wananchi, and that the dissidents had been crushed.

Also you can never recover any weapon if your strategy is to arrest people and take them to court. You have to finya makende until they produce the weapons.
radiomast
#39 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 7:37:44 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
@hardwood

Why would Nyerere allow weapons to be sneaked in through Dar es Salaam, only to warn Mugabe after the weapons had already been sent to mashinani?
It does not make sense.

In fact there is evidence that those weapons that Mugabe is referencing were planted by Mugabe's goons in collusion with apartheid south Africa

Quote:
Some of the buried weapons uncovered in 1982 and used as evidence against ZAPU are said to have been planted by these agents led by Matt Calloway who, as head of the Zimbabwe CIO branch, connived withSouth Africa (LRF and CCJPZ 1997) without ZAPU’s knowledge.


Link

Seems like a similar tactic to the one Moi applied during the 1982 coup where he allowed the coup to happen so he could around using it as an excuse to jail and fire officials from the Jomo Kenyatta government.

The General I referenced above admitted that Gukurahundi happened because of hatred between Ndebele and Mashona.

Also please explain why these drunk soldiers went around raping women and pouring hot water on elderly women among other things.

Lolest!
#40 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 8:11:08 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
That's not fair to Mandela. He was a transitional one-term president. If he had gone against the whites, SA economy would have crashed. The whites were well educated and controlled all the important aspects of the nation. I'm sure Mandela hated as he could not have made any drastic moves. The xenophobia there shows you that Mandela made the right move, can you imagine if the first black president was an angry black man like Malema? He also did not want the whites as a 'new' minority to start receiving sympathy from the world. It was a very tough balancing act for him and he did very well.


Most of what you've written about Mandela on land could be written about Jomo Kenyatta. Only that there was the Settlement Fund Trustees money(British government loan to buy off White farmers in Kenya).

Also, Kenya was getting independent in 63, SA didn't get independent in '94, just black majority rule. SA was independent from 1910 and was recognized as succh internationally, even fighting on the allies' side in the World Wars!
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