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2012
#31 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:38:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
I think the word I hate in life is the word tolerance. This was a big reality especially in employment and I hear in marriages and raising kids nowadays. Can you imagine having to tolerate your husband/wife/kids for the rest of your life? What a terrible life. People need to learn to accept, forgive and move on, not tolerate each other. Works perfectly in the work place though because you are somehow lying dependent on someone you might not like to survive. Employers love it. But it's killing you slowly if you stay there for too long. Just a thought as I retire to bed.

BBI will solve it :)
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Mukiri
#32 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:12:52 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
masukuma wrote:
Until fairly recently humans thought the golden age was in the past. there was no new knowledge - until we admitted ignorance and started trying to solve some of these problems. Simple thing like Lightning were once shrouded in mystery.. Mungu atakupiga radi...Thor the god of lightning! We kinda figured out this and now.. we do know how to arrest it. Poverty is another issue - Jesus himself once told his disciples that 'the poor you will always have with you'. slowly by slowly we are realizing that being poor is not a 'divine' problem...it's a technical problem - heck there are countries that really don't have 'poor' in the destitute state we had. people don't die of hunger as it used to be. Who says death is not a 'technical' problem? what if death is like many problems that were once seen as divine such as sterility and even gender selection before and are now 'technical' problems? what if in the next 100 years humans figure out how to live much longer than expected?

Might you be accusing Jesus Christ of something? Poverty os not limited to finances. Morally and spiritually bankrupt people abound, just to name but a couple of examples

Proverbs 19:21
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Mukiri
#33 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:18:38 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
2012 wrote:
tycho wrote:
2012 wrote:
UpcomingPaperChaser wrote:
I like the reasoning that this thread has attracted. I am so happy to learn that most of those that have commented on this matter are very sharp and intelligent. Am so happy to be involved in such.

However, why would humans want to live forever? Why would you want to live up to 100 years? I believe that once i am no longer of any economic or social use, i should just die. to me, living byond 80-85 should be classified as a liability.


I'm not sure religious so I obviously believe that matters death belong to God. That said, what would you say about a senior citizen over 85 who has the means and is not a bother to anybody? Say like Kirubi or Moi, shouldn't they live longer?


As long as you are human, you are a bother to somebody.


Not necessarily. Sometimes people bother you and others want you to exit so they can take your hard earned wealth. Also, with love and honest friendship, there's no bother. I personally don't think I'm a bother to anybody, I'm super self reliant and I do not allow people to be a bother to me. Actually, coming to think about it, I don't see people as a bother, just people who need a bit of uplifting and a boost once in a while.

That someone would praise others for exuding intelligence then say something alluding otherwise is comical. You think of your grandparents as a bother? You'd hasten their exit? Poor grandparentsSad There is only one commandment with a promise.

Proverbs 19:21
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masukuma
#34 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:07:14 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Until fairly recently humans thought the golden age was in the past. there was no new knowledge - until we admitted ignorance and started trying to solve some of these problems. Simple thing like Lightning were once shrouded in mystery.. Mungu atakupiga radi...Thor the god of lightning! We kinda figured out this and now.. we do know how to arrest it. Poverty is another issue - Jesus himself once told his disciples that 'the poor you will always have with you'. slowly by slowly we are realizing that being poor is not a 'divine' problem...it's a technical problem - heck there are countries that really don't have 'poor' in the destitute state we had. people don't die of hunger as it used to be. Who says death is not a 'technical' problem? what if death is like many problems that were once seen as divine such as sterility and even gender selection before and are now 'technical' problems? what if in the next 100 years humans figure out how to live much longer than expected?

Might you be accusing Jesus Christ of something? Poverty os not limited to finances. Morally and spiritually bankrupt people abound, just to name but a couple of examples

Secondly he was talking about 'money' poor people - remember it was story ya manukato ya 300 dinaris? anyway - he said that... but back to my point... death may not be a 'divine' condition of man... it could be a technical one.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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tycho
#35 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:56:40 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
Until fairly recently humans thought the golden age was in the past. there was no new knowledge - until we admitted ignorance and started trying to solve some of these problems. Simple thing like Lightning were once shrouded in mystery.. Mungu atakupiga radi...Thor the god of lightning! We kinda figured out this and now.. we do know how to arrest it. Poverty is another issue - Jesus himself once told his disciples that 'the poor you will always have with you'. slowly by slowly we are realizing that being poor is not a 'divine' problem...it's a technical problem - heck there are countries that really don't have 'poor' in the destitute state we had. people don't die of hunger as it used to be. Who says death is not a 'technical' problem? what if death is like many problems that were once seen as divine such as sterility and even gender selection before and are now 'technical' problems? what if in the next 100 years humans figure out how to live much longer than expected?


You're arguing from a point of ignorance @masukuma.

Divinity and technicality have always been one since the ancients. It's only after the so called 'scientific revolution' that a converse trend gained traction.

Even in the Bible's old Testament death is a technical matter.

And don't you think even now that lightning is divine?
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tycho
#36 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:58:16 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
I think the word I hate in life is the word tolerance. This was a big reality especially in employment and I hear in marriages and raising kids nowadays. Can you imagine having to tolerate your husband/wife/kids for the rest of your life? What a terrible life. People need to learn to accept, forgive and move on, not tolerate each other. Works perfectly in the work place though because you are somehow lying dependent on someone you might not like to survive. Employers love it. But it's killing you slowly if you stay there for too long. Just a thought as I retire to bed.


Tolerance is one option among others.
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masukuma
#37 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:57:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Until fairly recently humans thought the golden age was in the past. there was no new knowledge - until we admitted ignorance and started trying to solve some of these problems. Simple thing like Lightning were once shrouded in mystery.. Mungu atakupiga radi...Thor the god of lightning! We kinda figured out this and now.. we do know how to arrest it. Poverty is another issue - Jesus himself once told his disciples that 'the poor you will always have with you'. slowly by slowly we are realizing that being poor is not a 'divine' problem...it's a technical problem - heck there are countries that really don't have 'poor' in the destitute state we had. people don't die of hunger as it used to be. Who says death is not a 'technical' problem? what if death is like many problems that were once seen as divine such as sterility and even gender selection before and are now 'technical' problems? what if in the next 100 years humans figure out how to live much longer than expected?


You're arguing from a point of ignorance @masukuma.

Divinity and technicality have always been one since the ancients. It's only after the so called 'scientific revolution' that a converse trend gained traction.

Even in the Bible's old Testament death is a technical matter.

And don't you think even now that lightning is divine?

Let's clarify this: For a matter 'A' to qualify as a 'Technical' matter - there should exist a series of steps (finite) that are documented to resolve 'A' and regardless of who executes these steps - 'A' is resolved.
kinda like boiling water, doing that thing with the comb where you rub against your hair and attract pieces of paper, growing food, raising animals, treating malaria, arresting lightning.
For a matter to be 'divine' - it's a matter that relies on a capricious entity who can sometimes be pleased by 'acts' not related to 'A'! for example - not being struck on lightning is a result of not 'committing adultery'. getting wealthy is a product of 'giving tithes'. eradicating malaria from a person's body is a product of 'laying hands on the head of the affected one and chasing demons'. all these would qualify as technical matters if each time a person did the above - the desired consequence would be achieved. but because these acts rely on a 3rd party who (from our end appears 'capricious') - we never get the same results 100 percent of the time.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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tycho
#38 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 7:25:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Until fairly recently humans thought the golden age was in the past. there was no new knowledge - until we admitted ignorance and started trying to solve some of these problems. Simple thing like Lightning were once shrouded in mystery.. Mungu atakupiga radi...Thor the god of lightning! We kinda figured out this and now.. we do know how to arrest it. Poverty is another issue - Jesus himself once told his disciples that 'the poor you will always have with you'. slowly by slowly we are realizing that being poor is not a 'divine' problem...it's a technical problem - heck there are countries that really don't have 'poor' in the destitute state we had. people don't die of hunger as it used to be. Who says death is not a 'technical' problem? what if death is like many problems that were once seen as divine such as sterility and even gender selection before and are now 'technical' problems? what if in the next 100 years humans figure out how to live much longer than expected?


You're arguing from a point of ignorance @masukuma.

Divinity and technicality have always been one since the ancients. It's only after the so called 'scientific revolution' that a converse trend gained traction.

Even in the Bible's old Testament death is a technical matter.

And don't you think even now that lightning is divine?

Let's clarify this: For a matter 'A' to qualify as a 'Technical' matter - there should exist a series of steps (finite) that are documented to resolve 'A' and regardless of who executes these steps - 'A' is resolved.
kinda like boiling water, doing that thing with the comb where you rub against your hair and attract pieces of paper, growing food, raising animals, treating malaria, arresting lightning.
For a matter to be 'divine' - it's a matter that relies on a capricious entity who can sometimes be pleased by 'acts' not related to 'A'! for example - not being struck on lightning is a result of not 'committing adultery'. getting wealthy is a product of 'giving tithes'. eradicating malaria from a person's body is a product of 'laying hands on the head of the affected one and chasing demons'. all these would qualify as technical matters if each time a person did the above - the desired consequence would be achieved. but because these acts rely on a 3rd party who (from our end appears 'capricious') - we never get the same results 100 percent of the time.


@masukuma, it's not that each time a person repeats an action then the result is repeated. There's also a question of similarity of conditions.

There's also a matter of probabilities which preclude the possibility of 100% convergence.

Some things that are inexplicable to an entity may be either capricious or not capricious. For me it's almost an impossibility to show caprice.

The instances you've mentioned above like 'laying of hands' are technical methods that can be taught from one to another. Those that don't know the technique may lay hands to no effect.

I think there's a narrative that has roots even in the religious institutions that is quite simplistic, but that's a necessity of knowledge management systems.
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tycho
#39 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 7:38:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Can an individual out live or live for as long as a species exists?

A species appears as a force that limits the life span of an individual.

Therefore, if an individual can be differentiated from a species then a new species will have emerged. And that would mean an end or limit of a species.

All species are therefore necessarily limited in space-time.

Therefore an individual must also be limited in space-time.

Humanity can then be an emergent and collective property with different characteristics from person hood.

But humanity would also have to be a subset of something. And in essence humanity would have to be that 'something'...

Our thoughts therefore can only be a short term and linear effort. There must be a limit to our computation and the limits are probably inconclusive.
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Wakanyugi
#40 Posted : Thursday, May 24, 2018 1:03:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
tycho wrote:
@masukuma and @Wakanyugi. Today I'm trying hard not to think hard. I woke up at 4 in the morning to pop some pills.

But given the question, it's been hard for me to resist the task.

First, what patterns can we discern from sickness, the shortest lifespans, and the longest ones?

Because they seem to be related.

And then what is time? My most recent definition is 'the measure of distance traveled by light'.

That would mean that immortality is a function of light. That is, sensitivity, transmission and reception of light.

When we search through ancient ideas we find sources that link longevity and breathing rates.

And breath and light are connected.

The housefly is the last stage of a certain organism's life.


Interesting thoughts Tycho. [aside: I hope those pills you are taking are approved by a Doctor.]

Immortality for me is not a function of the speed of light. This actually situates your conclusion on illusory quick sad (both light, speed, time and space are contentious postulates).

It might be better to phrase mortality/immorality as a function of entropy - the degradation of the human vehicle, for instance, which is unidirectional. The day that direction is reversed, rather than just controlled, we shall have immortality.

But as another Wazuan posed: Why would anyone want to live forever? Even gods don't 'live' forever.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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