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Ban on Mitumba Clothes
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir  at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that.The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd. Thanks, That's what I'm trying to tell @Kipchirchir that you can only exploit economies of scale if you have a conducive business environment (taxes, infrastructure, corruption,labour costs, electricity costs) If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that.The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd. Thanks, That's what I'm trying to tell @Kipchirchir that you can only exploit economies of scale if you have a conducive business environment (taxes, infrastructure, corruption,labour costs, electricity costs) Thanks @nakujua. Insightful!!! Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that.The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd. Thanks, That's what I'm trying to tell @Kipchirchir that you can only exploit economies of scale if you have a conducive business environment (taxes, infrastructure, corruption,labour costs, electricity costs) If the EPZ guy can export "quality jeans" from imported fabric at a profit, why cant that be replicated? I told you the "tax, infrastructure etc" are variables that are not fixed. It would of course be expensive to be a lone ranger....not saying that they dont exist...but change has to begin from the start of the supply chain the farmer. A tailor can never maximize on profits if they depend on 80% imported raw materials. @nakujua doesn't tell you that he still makes money. Nakujua, have you bought any product from Rivatex? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Othelo wrote:@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. I don't think banning mitumba clothes is an option, as it is now, we can barely scale up to produce clothes that would be affordable across the range, especially for the budget segment. I think, us the players in the locally made garments need to pull up our socks, for instance for my business kwivika. we make all our clothing locally, from jeans and 'khaki' pants to the dresses, blazers e.t.c, I have an online shop and also a physical shop in Kimabu town and the demand for quality affordable clothing is high, of course there are challenges especially getting good tailors and dressmakers, good fabric is also very limited and hard to get. I think its still a vibrant virgin sector that is still up for grabs even without banning any imports, as it stands many individuals are making good business on the same, plus we do not want to go the sugar sector way
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:nakujua wrote:In gikomba the typical mitumba seller will make on average around 15-20k per month, the EPZ garment guys earn on average around 10-15k, and if you go to the major local garment production areas, uhuru market, jerico, kariobangi on average the tailors huko will make around 15-20k.
On another comparison level, if one takes a pair of lady denim pants, in Gikomba you will get a decent pair at around 80 - 100 bob, if you go to eastleigh you will get the imports at around 700 (wholesale), and if you were to buy denim fabric and have a tailor from jerico make one it will cost around (1.5 meter @ around 550 bob) + labor around 400 bob comes to around 800 bob. What about if you were to set up a factory and manufacture the denim jeans, will you sell it at 800 bob? what will be the wholesale price at Eastleigh assuming you were to convince those eastleigh guys to dump imports for the locally manufactured jeans? If there are any price differences between the wholesale of locally manufactured and imported denims, what is the cause? @Kwivika, this is not meant for you but @Kipchirchir at a large scale using the denim pants example the cost can come down, EPZ produces a unit of the same at roughly 100-150 bob (from unreliable sources), which is very high if you consider countries like cambodia or bangladesh. EPZ factories in kenya enjoy some advantages, and if those advantages are removed the same pair of jeans will be produced at around 300 bob. Locally the only big manufacturers of denims are the EPZ factories, which are for export - of course the quality of the fabric they use is way superior, what ever is imported at the 700-800 bob is very poor quality and can not be compared with the local EPZ quality. The biggest difference in price between locally made and imported would be cost of fabric, importing fabric is an expensive undertaking, especially with the taxes and all, add to that the labour cost and the added taxes once you produce the finished garment, you just can't compete with china on that.The few guys I know who have a factory garment making setup have closed shop, or have downsized kabisa, the cost of machines, electricity and labour in kenya is absurd. Thanks, That's what I'm trying to tell @Kipchirchir that you can only exploit economies of scale if you have a conducive business environment (taxes, infrastructure, corruption,labour costs, electricity costs) If the EPZ guy can export "quality jeans" from imported fabric at a profit, why cant that be replicated? I told you the "tax, infrastructure etc" are variables that are not fixed. It would of course be expensive to be a lone ranger....not saying that they dont exist...but change has to begin from the start of the supply chain the farmer. A tailor can never maximize on profits if they depend on 80% imported raw materials. @nakujua doesn't tell you that he still makes money. Nakujua, have you bought any product from Rivatex? I make a few coins, can't complain on that I am still growing and hope to one day be dressing the whole region EPZ is one system I have never fully understood well, but I think they import the fabrics at a lower tax rate or none at all, with the main condition being that they have to export all of them, none should find their way into the local market. Rivatex do not do major dress making fabric per say, apart from kitenge, the last I checked with them they were doing, bedsheets, some maasai shukas, curtains, kitenge, lesos and that flannel fabric mostly used for baby clothing. Even the other fabric manufacturers at least those i know of, mostly do kitenge and lesos, funny thing is that the local fabric guys are way more expensive than the imports (china and india) for what they produce.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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nakujua wrote:Othelo wrote:@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. I don't think banning mitumba clothes is an option, as it is now, we can barely scale up to produce clothes that would be affordable across the range, especially for the budget segment. I think, us the players in the locally made garments need to pull up our socks, for instance for my business kwivika. we make all our clothing locally, from jeans and 'khaki' pants to the dresses, blazers e.t.c, I have an online shop and also a physical shop in Kimabu town and the demand for quality affordable clothing is high, of course there are challenges especially getting good tailors and dressmakers, good fabric is also very limited and hard to get. I think its still a vibrant virgin sector that is still up for grabs even without banning any imports, as it stands many individuals are making good business on the same, plus we do not want to go the sugar sector way From this response you get the why I advocate the banning of Mtumba. To grease the squeaky wheel. If mtumba exists because of the low end customer, them nakujua should develop or contract someone to develop a cheap garment. Hio haiwezekani? If mtumba exist because people love wearing clothes that have been worn by someone else, then Kenyans should provide the clothing. There are flea markets in the west too....not imported clothes tho. The stuff we get as mtumba is that which they could not sell to their market. Back in the days, there was a beba beba guy who collected clothes in exchange of plastic basins and buckets...that guy should be collecting nakujuas cloths that Othelo wore and selling them to swenani. Retain money circulating in our economy. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Othelo wrote:@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. I don't think banning mitumba clothes is an option, as it is now, we can barely scale up to produce clothes that would be affordable across the range, especially for the budget segment. I think, us the players in the locally made garments need to pull up our socks, for instance for my business kwivika. we make all our clothing locally, from jeans and 'khaki' pants to the dresses, blazers e.t.c, I have an online shop and also a physical shop in Kimabu town and the demand for quality affordable clothing is high, of course there are challenges especially getting good tailors and dressmakers, good fabric is also very limited and hard to get. I think its still a vibrant virgin sector that is still up for grabs even without banning any imports, as it stands many individuals are making good business on the same, plus we do not want to go the sugar sector way From this response you get the why I advocate the banning of Mtumba. To grease the squeaky wheel. If mtumba exists because of the low end customer, them nakujua should develop or contract someone to develop a cheap garment. Hio haiwezekani? If mtumba exist because people love wearing clothes that have been worn by someone else, then Kenyans should provide the clothing. There are flea markets in the west too....not imported clothes tho. The stuff we get as mtumba is that which they could not sell to their market. Back in the days, there was a beba beba guy who collected clothes in exchange of plastic basins and buckets...that guy should be collecting nakujuas cloths that Othelo wore and selling them to swenani. Retain money circulating in our economy. Thats an interesting angle, but I don't think the middle/working class can sustain the ripple down effect to clothe the masses, plus if Othelo continues buying imports from turkey and dubai, nakujua will never sell his clothes and Swenani might never get the clothes passed down and we do not want him walking around naked But if we have to ban imports to grow the local sector, we should start with new clothes, that will have a better impact. But as I mentioned, I think the local sector has potential which is not being met even without any ban, introducing a ban will just create chaos.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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Governments banning Mitumba is nonsense.They should focus on the consumer and understand the consumer behavior. Why would a consumer go to mtumba buy a second hand pair of shoes which is more expensive than a new locally made shoe?There lies the answer.The consumer is looking for value for money.Good quality na ambayo ni ya camera.Not those uniforms sold in Eastlands. Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:nakujua wrote:Othelo wrote:@nakujua, what would you advocate for being in this field. I don't think banning mitumba clothes is an option, as it is now, we can barely scale up to produce clothes that would be affordable across the range, especially for the budget segment. I think, us the players in the locally made garments need to pull up our socks, for instance for my business kwivika. we make all our clothing locally, from jeans and 'khaki' pants to the dresses, blazers e.t.c, I have an online shop and also a physical shop in Kimabu town and the demand for quality affordable clothing is high, of course there are challenges especially getting good tailors and dressmakers, good fabric is also very limited and hard to get. I think its still a vibrant virgin sector that is still up for grabs even without banning any imports, as it stands many individuals are making good business on the same, plus we do not want to go the sugar sector way From this response you get the why I advocate the banning of Mtumba. To grease the squeaky wheel. If mtumba exists because of the low end customer, them nakujua should develop or contract someone to develop a cheap garment. Hio haiwezekani? If mtumba exist because people love wearing clothes that have been worn by someone else, then Kenyans should provide the clothing. There are flea markets in the west too....not imported clothes tho. The stuff we get as mtumba is that which they could not sell to their market. Back in the days, there was a beba beba guy who collected clothes in exchange of plastic basins and buckets...that guy should be collecting nakujuas cloths that Othelo wore and selling them to swenani. Retain money circulating in our economy. To urgue that either people buy mitumbas because they are low end or they like clothes worn by others is simplistic. Why consumers choose what they choose isn't something that can be determined in general terms. Assuming the reasons are true; would the flea market operate in the manner you're prescribing? That disposable incomes are globally sourced, but locally spent leaving the local economy stronger? That's an impossibility! If anything the local economy would grow poorer with AID.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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PeterReborn wrote:Governments banning Mitumba is nonsense.They should focus on the consumer and understand the consumer behavior. Why would a consumer go to mtumba buy a second hand pair of shoes which is more expensive than a new locally made shoe?There lies the answer.The consumer is looking for value for money.Good quality na ambayo ni ya camera.Not those uniforms sold in Eastlands. http://www.theguardian.c...es-at-second-hand-stalls
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