Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Sports
»
Kenya to be banned for 4 years if WADA succeeds
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
|
Quote:I think we are just beating around the bush , systematic is a properly defined word in the English language and I don't think wada is trying to redefine the same. The dictionary definition is irrelevant in this case. If you use the dictionary definition then all countries should be immediately banned, not just Russia. How come this concept is so difficult for people to understand? Quote:I don't know if you are really serious that in the usa doping is done by individual athletes under the table - I mean if the cases discovered is anything to go by it is a big business with lots of planning and organization, at times involving teams over a long period of time. 1. Doping is big business in every country so your point is irrelevant. 2. Doping requires planning in every country so I am not sure what your point is. American track athletes do their doping under the table. Can you give us an example of an athlete that engaged in systematic doping in the last 15 years? Remember this discussion is about athletics. Not cycling. Not baseball. If you can provide an example of systematic doping by a track athlete in America since the year 2000 you win.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 9/29/2010 Posts: 679 Location: nairobi
|
Alba wrote:Quote:I think we are just beating around the bush , systematic is a properly defined word in the English language and I don't think wada is trying to redefine the same. The dictionary definition is irrelevant in this case. If you use the dictionary definition then all countries should be immediately banned, not just Russia. How come this concept is so difficult for people to understand? Quote:I don't know if you are really serious that in the usa doping is done by individual athletes under the table - I mean if the cases discovered is anything to go by it is a big business with lots of planning and organization, at times involving teams over a long period of time. 1. Doping is big business in every country so your point is irrelevant. 2. Doping requires planning in every country so I am not sure what your point is. American track athletes do their doping under the table. Can you give us an example of an athlete that engaged in systematic doping in the last 15 years? Remember this discussion is about athletics. Not cycling. Not baseball. If you can provide an example of systematic doping by a track athlete in America since the year 2000 you win. justin gatlin and tyson gay
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
|
kizee1 wrote:Alba wrote:Quote:I think we are just beating around the bush , systematic is a properly defined word in the English language and I don't think wada is trying to redefine the same. The dictionary definition is irrelevant in this case. If you use the dictionary definition then all countries should be immediately banned, not just Russia. How come this concept is so difficult for people to understand? Quote:I don't know if you are really serious that in the usa doping is done by individual athletes under the table - I mean if the cases discovered is anything to go by it is a big business with lots of planning and organization, at times involving teams over a long period of time. 1. Doping is big business in every country so your point is irrelevant. 2. Doping requires planning in every country so I am not sure what your point is. American track athletes do their doping under the table. Can you give us an example of an athlete that engaged in systematic doping in the last 15 years? Remember this discussion is about athletics. Not cycling. Not baseball. If you can provide an example of systematic doping by a track athlete in America since the year 2000 you win. justin gatlin and tyson gay  sawa @Alba umeshinda you even specify the period you want us to consider post 2000, and even for that apart from gatlin and gay you still have the issue of tim in 2001, you want to redefine the word systematic since it does not fit your narrative. Sawa in the usa hakuna systematic doping either-way they do not even have a sports ministry.
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/11/2015 Posts: 1,024
|
nakujua wrote:kizee1 wrote:Alba wrote:Quote:I think we are just beating around the bush , systematic is a properly defined word in the English language and I don't think wada is trying to redefine the same. The dictionary definition is irrelevant in this case. If you use the dictionary definition then all countries should be immediately banned, not just Russia. How come this concept is so difficult for people to understand? Quote:I don't know if you are really serious that in the usa doping is done by individual athletes under the table - I mean if the cases discovered is anything to go by it is a big business with lots of planning and organization, at times involving teams over a long period of time. 1. Doping is big business in every country so your point is irrelevant. 2. Doping requires planning in every country so I am not sure what your point is. American track athletes do their doping under the table. Can you give us an example of an athlete that engaged in systematic doping in the last 15 years? Remember this discussion is about athletics. Not cycling. Not baseball. If you can provide an example of systematic doping by a track athlete in America since the year 2000 you win. justin gatlin and tyson gay sawa @Alba umeshinda you even specify the period you want us to consider post 2000, and even for that apart from gatlin and gay you still have the issue of tim in 2001, you want to redefine the word systematic since it does not fit your narrative. Sawa in the usa hakuna systematic doping either-way they do not even have a sports ministry. I feel your frustration with Alba. I understand what it feels like to debate with one who has to 'win' at all costs all the time.
|
|
|
Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
|
Anti_Burglar wrote:nakujua wrote:kizee1 wrote:Alba wrote:Quote:I think we are just beating around the bush , systematic is a properly defined word in the English language and I don't think wada is trying to redefine the same. The dictionary definition is irrelevant in this case. If you use the dictionary definition then all countries should be immediately banned, not just Russia. How come this concept is so difficult for people to understand? Quote:I don't know if you are really serious that in the usa doping is done by individual athletes under the table - I mean if the cases discovered is anything to go by it is a big business with lots of planning and organization, at times involving teams over a long period of time. 1. Doping is big business in every country so your point is irrelevant. 2. Doping requires planning in every country so I am not sure what your point is. American track athletes do their doping under the table. Can you give us an example of an athlete that engaged in systematic doping in the last 15 years? Remember this discussion is about athletics. Not cycling. Not baseball. If you can provide an example of systematic doping by a track athlete in America since the year 2000 you win. justin gatlin and tyson gay sawa @Alba umeshinda you even specify the period you want us to consider post 2000, and even for that apart from gatlin and gay you still have the issue of tim in 2001, you want to redefine the word systematic since it does not fit your narrative. Sawa in the usa hakuna systematic doping either-way they do not even have a sports ministry. I feel your frustration with Alba. I understand what it feels like to debate with one who has to 'win' at all costs all the time. Am always right Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
|
Anti_Burglar wrote:nakujua wrote:kizee1 wrote:Alba wrote:Quote:I think we are just beating around the bush , systematic is a properly defined word in the English language and I don't think wada is trying to redefine the same. The dictionary definition is irrelevant in this case. If you use the dictionary definition then all countries should be immediately banned, not just Russia. How come this concept is so difficult for people to understand? Quote:I don't know if you are really serious that in the usa doping is done by individual athletes under the table - I mean if the cases discovered is anything to go by it is a big business with lots of planning and organization, at times involving teams over a long period of time. 1. Doping is big business in every country so your point is irrelevant. 2. Doping requires planning in every country so I am not sure what your point is. American track athletes do their doping under the table. Can you give us an example of an athlete that engaged in systematic doping in the last 15 years? Remember this discussion is about athletics. Not cycling. Not baseball. If you can provide an example of systematic doping by a track athlete in America since the year 2000 you win. justin gatlin and tyson gay sawa @Alba umeshinda you even specify the period you want us to consider post 2000, and even for that apart from gatlin and gay you still have the issue of tim in 2001, you want to redefine the word systematic since it does not fit your narrative. Sawa in the usa hakuna systematic doping either-way they do not even have a sports ministry. I feel your frustration with Alba. I understand what it feels like to debate with one who has to 'win' at all costs all the time. Dude even tells you a word has a different meaning from the dictionary and only him can decipher what it actually means 
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
|
nakujua wrote: sawa @Alba umeshinda you even specify the period you want us to consider post 2000, and even for that apart from gatlin and gay you still have the issue of tim in 2001, you want to redefine the word systematic since it does not fit your narrative. Sawa in the usa hakuna systematic doping either-way they do not even have a sports ministry. 1. The period before 2000 is not relevant to the current discussion. We are discussing why Russia is being banned NOW. We are not discussing what happened 15 years ago. 2. If the USA is engaging in systematic doping then please please please tell me why only Russia is being banned for systematic doping. Are you saying there is a global conspiracy against Russia?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
|
Since nakujua, kizee and others failed to do basic research on the phrase systematic doping. I decided to do so myself. I looked up websites that describe exactly why Russia is being banned. Russia accused of state sponsored dopingQuote:Pound said it was inconceivable that the Russian sports minister, Vitaly Mutko, was not aware of the scale of the problem.
The Wada report said the Russian anti-doping agency was under improper influence from Mutko’s ministry, that it had given athletes advance notice of tests and that its employees “routinely” took bribes from athletes to cover up doping.
Radio new zealandQuote:The report alleged "systemic" collusion between Russian athletes and the country's federation and anti-doping authorities and a "deeply-rooted culture of cheating" that enabled athletes to take performance-enhancing drugs without fear of being tested. New York TimesQuote:Those allegations were among hundreds contained in a report released Monday by the World Anti-Doping Agency. Across 323 pages, it implicates athletes, coaches, trainers, doctors and various Russian institutions, laying out what is very likely the most extensive state-sponsored doping program since the notorious East German regime of the 1970s. PBSQuote:The systematic doping began in 1974 when Party leaders met with the East German Sports Performance Committee to decide how best to guarantee gold medals and international glory. Boston GlobeQuote:Monday’s report implicates coaches, doctors, athletes, Russia’s anti-doping agency, and an accredited Moscow laboratory that oversaw testing for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. It describes cover-ups, destruction of test samples, and payments to conceal results. Additionally, athletes were told when they would be tested, taking away the element of surprise that has proven key in catching doping violations. If you bother to read any of these articles you will see that Russia is being banned not because of individual doping as is the case with Gatlin and Gay. Rather Russia is being banned because their doping involves the entire Russian system including coaches, state officials, anti-doping authorities, doctors and so forth,
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
|
There is no sign of intelligent life here. The dictionary definitions is : done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical.I will concede this debate if kratos and others can tell me:1. Based on this definition of systematic doping Which countries are doing systematic and which ones are unsystematic So based on that definition, please tell me which country is engaging in doping that is not done according to a fixed plan 2. Why is Russia the only country being banned for systematic doping? My contention is simple: All doping is organized and done according to plan. So if the dictionary definition applies, then every country is engaging in systematic doping and every country should be banned. In fact Kenya should be among the 1st one banned. Rita Jeptoo's doping was very sophsiticated and planned. She doped for 4 years without being caught. Many other Kenyans still have not been caught. Perhaps Kratos and others can explain which country is unsystematic
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/19/2011 Posts: 1,694
|
Alba wrote:There is no sign of intelligent life here. The dictionary definitions is : done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical.I will concede this debate if kratos and others can tell me:1. Based on this definition of systematic doping Which countries are doing systematic and which ones are unsystematic So based on that definition, please tell me which country is engaging in doping that is not done according to a fixed plan 2. Why is Russia the only country being banned for systematic doping? My contention is simple: All doping is organized and done according to plan. So if the dictionary definition applies, then every country is engaging in systematic doping and every country should be banned. In fact Kenya should be among the 1st one banned. Rita Jeptoo's doping was very sophsiticated and planned. She doped for 4 years without being caught. Many other Kenyans still have not been caught. Perhaps Kratos and others can explain which country is unsystematic You already "won" the argument and everyone is in agreement. What more do you want, to flog a dead horse?
“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Sports
»
Kenya to be banned for 4 years if WADA succeeds
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|