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Rank: User Joined: 1/20/2014 Posts: 3,528
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Swenani wrote:Thitifini wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Boris Boyka wrote:newfarer wrote:Kaigangio wrote:limanika wrote:Seems people don't understand the tragedy we're in... in 90s mo1 was wise not to borrow helterskelter . The dynamic duo have no institutional memory from the 90s. If mo1 was still in power I would sleep more comfy. You clearly don't know what you are talking about...by the time Kibaki was taking over from Moi in 2002, the revenue collection was barely ksh 200 billion (compared to todays ksh 1200 billion!!) and economic growth of -0.1% (this year the economy is growing at more than 5%). If there was a time when Kenya almost defaulted on its external debt, it was during Moi's tenure (around 2000)…the mere near declaration that the country was broke and might be unable to service her debts cost one Masakharia (Finance minister) his job... Since numbers don't lie, could you please give us yours and we will understand what you are trying to tell us and what your concerns are. Kagizzard of the ksh200b how much was going to debt repayments in 2000 @newfarer Kaigangio supports HIS argument with his facts. You are the one to provide your contrary with your own facts "External Debt in Kenya increased to 1473.14 KES Billion in July from 1408.61 KES Billion in June of 2015. External Debt in Kenya averaged 576.63 KES Billion from 2000 until 2015, reaching an all time high of 1473.14 KES Billion in July of 2015 and a record low of 361.73 KES Billion in May of 2003. External Debt in Kenya is reported by the Central Bank of Kenya." http://www.tradingeconom...com/kenya/external-debt
@Boris wachana na hawa vijana, they are only making noise with no iota of prove on their arguements. @Newfarer, what i know and remember is that in the year 2000 the ratio of the external government dept to gross domestic product was around 80% and that more than ksh 120 billion was going to servicing of the debt leaving a paltry kshs 80 billion which was used entirely on recurrent budgets…no development. No wonder the government could not maintain the existing infrastructure. Just tell me how many new roads, hospitals, dams or even schools were constructed between 1993 to 2000? As of 2015 the ratio of external government debt to gross domestic product is around 57%. Not so bad for an abitious third world country. The US got ambitious in the 1800's, maintained their debt to GDP ratio post 100% all along (currently at 118%), became super power, and I haven't heard IMF or WB complain. Contrary to kenya, US was investing in production of machinery equipment,investment in infrastructure and agricultural production.In Kenya, we are borrowing to pay off debts Worse, borrowing to steal  Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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We borrow to build 5000mw power plants when all logic says we expand by 5-10 percent every year, we borrow to build Greenfield terminal when we haven't exhausted existing capacity, we borrow to build 10000 km worth of village footpaths, we borrow to dish money in guise of NYS, we borrow to buy laptops for class 1. We borrow and borrow and eat and eat and we don't see any problem?? It a question of when not if we'll default
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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limanika wrote:We borrow to build 5000mw power plants when all logic says we expand by 5-10 percent every year, we borrow to build Greenfield terminal when we haven't exhausted existing capacity, we borrow to build 10000 km worth of village footpaths, we borrow to dish money in guise of NYS, we borrow to buy laptops for class 1. We borrow and borrow and eat and eat and we don't see any problem?? It a question of when not if we'll default So your best scenario is not to borrow or borrow very little and become self sustaining. Whats the use of being self sustaining in kibera, while you can live on debt in umoja. Worst case, if you default you just go back kibera,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Swenani wrote:Thitifini wrote:Kaigangio wrote:Boris Boyka wrote:newfarer wrote:Kaigangio wrote:limanika wrote:Seems people don't understand the tragedy we're in... in 90s mo1 was wise not to borrow helterskelter . The dynamic duo have no institutional memory from the 90s. If mo1 was still in power I would sleep more comfy. You clearly don't know what you are talking about...by the time Kibaki was taking over from Moi in 2002, the revenue collection was barely ksh 200 billion (compared to todays ksh 1200 billion!!) and economic growth of -0.1% (this year the economy is growing at more than 5%). If there was a time when Kenya almost defaulted on its external debt, it was during Moi's tenure (around 2000)…the mere near declaration that the country was broke and might be unable to service her debts cost one Masakharia (Finance minister) his job... Since numbers don't lie, could you please give us yours and we will understand what you are trying to tell us and what your concerns are. Kagizzard of the ksh200b how much was going to debt repayments in 2000 @newfarer Kaigangio supports HIS argument with his facts. You are the one to provide your contrary with your own facts "External Debt in Kenya increased to 1473.14 KES Billion in July from 1408.61 KES Billion in June of 2015. External Debt in Kenya averaged 576.63 KES Billion from 2000 until 2015, reaching an all time high of 1473.14 KES Billion in July of 2015 and a record low of 361.73 KES Billion in May of 2003. External Debt in Kenya is reported by the Central Bank of Kenya." http://www.tradingeconom...com/kenya/external-debt
@Boris wachana na hawa vijana, they are only making noise with no iota of prove on their arguements. @Newfarer, what i know and remember is that in the year 2000 the ratio of the external government dept to gross domestic product was around 80% and that more than ksh 120 billion was going to servicing of the debt leaving a paltry kshs 80 billion which was used entirely on recurrent budgets…no development. No wonder the government could not maintain the existing infrastructure. Just tell me how many new roads, hospitals, dams or even schools were constructed between 1993 to 2000? As of 2015 the ratio of external government debt to gross domestic product is around 57%. Not so bad for an abitious third world country. The US got ambitious in the 1800's, maintained their debt to GDP ratio post 100% all along (currently at 118%), became super power, and I haven't heard IMF or WB complain. Contrary to kenya, US was investing in production of machinery equipment,investment in infrastructure and agricultural production.In Kenya, we are borrowing to pay off debts despite the many wrongs happening (corruption and theft) - at least something is happening on the ground, we are laying a rail road, there is a good amount of activity in the energy sector, in form of the geothermal plants plus the aggressive power connection especially huku mashinani. The counties are getting their share, actually more than stipulated, some roads are continually being built, its not that gloomy. To lighten up, just visit skycrapper city http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?s=74b6ab69175262c8318537ccabf11b30&f=2146
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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@ nakujua, we're borrowing to build 10x baks projects at the same time dish 50percent to counties who spend on wheelbarrow and Facebook. The SGR we're building at 0. 5b per km? The maths simply doesn't add up. If we default, nobody Will be willing to lend to govt and they 'll simply print money..
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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@ kagizzard don't be that dismissive.. even govt has admitted there's a problem no point defending them
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
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limanika wrote:@ kagizzard don't be that dismissive.. even govt has admitted there's a problem no point defending them @Limanika…We are still waiting for you to furnish us with the necessary economic indicators which point to an economy on the red. If you cannot do this then you do not have a valid argument that the economy is shrinking, stagnated or in recession. All that you are telling us is gas. I am not being dismissive and neither am I surpporting the government. I am trying to show you that things are not thick as you want us to believe…bring them numbers and we might share your concern. ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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@ kagizzard the signs that things are not rosy are all over the mainstream media no need to repeat here. Govt can't meet obligations including disbursement to counties and even paying salaries. We're not in recession yet but that's where we're headed.. and at high speed
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2013 Posts: 1,977 Location: Here
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limanika wrote:@ kagizzard the signs that things are not rosy are all over the mainstream media no need to repeat here. Govt can't meet obligations including disbursement to counties and even paying salaries. We're not in recession yet but that's where we're headed.. and at high speed @limanika to make it clearer, do you know the difference between being unwell, quite sick, sick & admitted, very sick & admitted and very sick admitted in ICU???? If yes where is Kenyan economy on the sick "scale". You're portraying it as the latter! Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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@ Boris just the other day, the chief govt accountant was asked to explain the current crisis.. and he said we're in problems because KRA missed a target.. that it'll be ok once they pull up their socks.. but he couldn't say how they are going to make up.. in the same sentence asked about the wastage and corruption going on, he said revenue already collected by KRA is being spent behind his back in ways he can't explain.. be the judge where we stand on the sick scale
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