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Westgate aftermath – What to do
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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Let me remind people that the largest number of hardcore thugs in the states is not found while doing the crime but on simple traffic stops. Oklohoma bomber is a prime example, Ted Bundy etc The police could never arrest Al Capone so they got him with tax evasion. The mafia were never found mafiaring, they were caught evading tax, or using proceedings from crime by Rudi Going for refugees doesn't help matters only makes them go to cocoons thus no intelligence. Ask people like me who've lived in other countries. Going all religious is rather, not right even in your own religion. Blaming people who are human rights activists is shallow to the core. There are human rights issues because law and order failed to exist. I'm sure those thugs didn't have a seat belt on. Who knows if they would have been stopped by a cop before they did their did. As it happens in other countries. I'm not blaming the cops. Sorry it sounds that way. I'm blaming those in charge of law and order. This includes the citizens who love taking shortcuts in life. Renting your house to some fellow who's income you know isn't from harvesting onions. Take a look at South C. Some old men have a habit of complaining there are too many Somalis nowadays. I have to remind them that these Somalis did not put a gun on anyone's head. Some Kyuk or Luo sold him the house. Same thing is happening in Estleigh. Did you know that it is harder for a Kenyan Somali to get a passport than a Somali pseudo Kenyan? Law and order that's it. Any other games are just meant to tell us to accept and move on. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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Mukiri wrote:Rankaz13 wrote:Urgently close down ALL the refugee camps in northern Kenya. Let UNHCRassist them from within their own country. Those camps have been fertile recruitment grounds.
Lean really hard on those easich fellows to reveal the bad apples in their midst. Close down their businesses if we must if that's what it'll take to get the info.
Stop dilly-dallying and shuffling around officers who don't perform, simply sack them. I know a fellow, quite senior in the provincial admin. Every single station he head served in, he had had to be transferred due to his connivance in allowing illegal immigrants from Somalia, his most recent posting having been garish. Why we keep transferring such an officer around beats me. Simply sack the damn fool and take him to court to answer for his misdeeds.
Endeleza mjadala... I'm of the opinion that refugees are much as victims as we are. They who would much rather flee than bandwagon with terrorists. Take for instance PEV, or the Ugandan Kony. Kenyans, victims, chose to flee. Picture yourself fleeing, then having your host(in your suggestion) sending you back to die? Let's resort to decisions free from emotions. Decisions that we can live with in years to come. At the very least, could we at least screen them at the entry points? Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/7/2007 Posts: 838
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Much Know wrote:ZZE123 wrote:KDF should move to Eastleigh and comb the place door to door for illegal immigrants and weapons. Kenya Defence forces should not have a bearing presence at home or over fellow citizens, that is very good policy, actually the ideal is KDF should never have to use force/be deployed inside Kenya, this should be the very last time we should see them in action inside the country if we are really serious about security, it is total and absolute nonsense to start asking/begging KDF to continue playing policing roles within the country, absolute nonsense! It should be an abomination, even advanced countries like US have a national guard who cannot really mix with the army, they even have F18 and and other advanced jets for internal jobs, but as a rule, a countries defense forces should not mix in raia issues, except under extreme and unimaginable/terrible circumstances like we found ourselves in, internal affairs need a different force/service, call it police. @Much Know.You have said it fully. WHO DARES WINS
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Arent Islams too victims of the same terrorists? Havent we seen attacks even at some mosques sometimes? Isnt Yussf on a wheelchair as a result of the same crimes? Doesnt the Al Shabaab in Somali bomb fellow muslims? I think this monstor needs a sober n decisive approach. It takes more than being a muslim to be a terrorist.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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Rankaz13 wrote:Mukiri wrote:Rankaz13 wrote:Urgently close down ALL the refugee camps in northern Kenya. Let UNHCRassist them from within their own country. Those camps have been fertile recruitment grounds.
Lean really hard on those easich fellows to reveal the bad apples in their midst. Close down their businesses if we must if that's what it'll take to get the info.
Stop dilly-dallying and shuffling around officers who don't perform, simply sack them. I know a fellow, quite senior in the provincial admin. Every single station he head served in, he had had to be transferred due to his connivance in allowing illegal immigrants from Somalia, his most recent posting having been garish. Why we keep transferring such an officer around beats me. Simply sack the damn fool and take him to court to answer for his misdeeds.
Endeleza mjadala... I'm of the opinion that refugees are much as victims as we are. They who would much rather flee than bandwagon with terrorists. Take for instance PEV, or the Ugandan Kony. Kenyans, victims, chose to flee. Picture yourself fleeing, then having your host(in your suggestion) sending you back to die? Let's resort to decisions free from emotions. Decisions that we can live with in years to come. At the very least, could we at least screen them at the entry points?  Doc, that is a start. That ought to be done. But it would be limited to the intel we have ie The records in our files, of criminals, of Somali descent.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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alma wrote:Let me remind people that the largest number of hardcore thugs in the states is not found while doing the crime but on simple traffic stops. Oklohoma bomber is a prime example, Ted Bundy etc
The police could never arrest Al Capone so they got him with tax evasion. The mafia were never found mafiaring, they were caught evading tax, or using proceedings from crime by Rudi
Going for refugees doesn't help matters only makes them go to cocoons thus no intelligence. Ask people like me who've lived in other countries.
Going all religious is rather, not right even in your own religion.
Blaming people who are human rights activists is shallow to the core.
There are human rights issues because law and order failed to exist. I'm sure those thugs didn't have a seat belt on. Who knows if they would have been stopped by a cop before they did their did. As it happens in other countries.
I'm not blaming the cops. Sorry it sounds that way. I'm blaming those in charge of law and order. This includes the citizens who love taking shortcuts in life. Renting your house to some fellow who's income you know isn't from harvesting onions.
Take a look at South C. Some old men have a habit of complaining there are too many Somalis nowadays. I have to remind them that these Somalis did not put a gun on anyone's head. Some Kyuk or Luo sold him the house. Same thing is happening in Estleigh.
Did you know that it is harder for a Kenyan Somali to get a passport than a Somali pseudo Kenyan?
Law and order that's it. Any other games are just meant to tell us to accept and move on. Well put, madam. I couldn't agree more.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/7/2007 Posts: 838
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Honestly, I have been a very angry man over the past 3 days. Very angry. Knowing what I know now about the events leading to Sato makes me very angry. This is not the forum for this but if any body needs reform..nay..overhaul..nay...a whole new organisation is the POLICE FORCE..from the top to the bottom. WHO DARES WINS
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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Mukiri wrote:Rankaz13 wrote:Urgently close down ALL the refugee camps in northern Kenya. Let UNHCRassist them from within their own country. Those camps have been fertile recruitment grounds.
Lean really hard on those easich fellows to reveal the bad apples in their midst. Close down their businesses if we must if that's what it'll take to get the info.
Stop dilly-dallying and shuffling around officers who don't perform, simply sack them. I know a fellow, quite senior in the provincial admin. Every single station he head served in, he had had to be transferred due to his connivance in allowing illegal immigrants from Somalia, his most recent posting having been garish. Why we keep transferring such an officer around beats me. Simply sack the damn fool and take him to court to answer for his misdeeds.
Endeleza mjadala... I'm of the opinion that refugees are much as victims as we are. They who would much rather flee than bandwagon with terrorists. Take for instance PEV, or the Ugandan Kony. Kenyans, victims, chose to flee. Picture yourself fleeing, then having your host(in your suggestion) sending you back to die? Let's resort to decisions free from emotions. Decisions that we can live with in years to come. @Mukiri, Yes that is the point. Refugees are normally ordinary citizens running from a calamity and looking for a temporal haven. It would be inhuman to lock your door to someone being pursued by terror at your door. Imagine people from Syria being denied entry by Turkey when Assad was busy gassing them! "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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limanika wrote:I take it that the other thread is for updates and in any case too long / tired. It is only fair we start another thread on solutions and how we could have prevented the sad event.
It is known that you can buy your way out of anything in Kenya, hence it is possible someone turned a blind eye and allowed these terrorists to pass through the borders or even issued them with fake ID documents. The authorities are aware of this corruption problem and should have devised ways to net / outsmart corrupt officers by now. From where I sit, they are either accomplices or not willing to deal with the situation.
To start us off with solutions- The approach to war against terror should be multi-pronged as in- Step 1- Put measures in place to ensure terrorists do not gain entry. Step 2 – In the event they gain entry, ensure there are measures in place to detect and arrest them. Step 3a – In case they escape police dragnet, ensure they are not able to attack. Step 3b – Classify possible targets and designate security measures for each. For instance, it doesn’t make sense that entrances to shopping malls and important public buildings do not have gun detectors. It also does not make sense that a body guard to a simple MP has a gun, yet guards guarding 1000+ people (including VIPs) in Westgate do not have any guns.
Any other ideas? While it makes sense to arm guards, it's also a recipe for a multitude of problems. For example, due to low pay, the guards may use the guns to commit crimes or hire out their guns. Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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McReggae wrote:Magigi wrote:We should do nothing! What did we do after that accident at Mahi Mahiu - Narok road and almost the same number of people perished? Let us move on>>
We should have blood and MPesa drives each time we are affected as a nation, remember 'When our 40 soldiers were killed in baragoi, When the poor kenyans died in city to city bus, When the suffering kenyans died in sinai fire, When the poor died in sachangwan fire......we didn't have such massive drives for help!!!  You underestimate the magnitude of terrorism. Let's consider loss of lives and economic losses, for example.
-Loss of lives. The numbers are bad. That's why no one wants to talk about the numbers. Some were breadwinners and others were employers. What will happen to their dependents?
-Great economic losses. Looked at the latest NSE figures? Please do. Investors confidence in the country? It will will take some time to attract the kind of investments we used to get before the attack. Tourism? This is supposed to the peak period.
Rethink your skepticism. Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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