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African traditional religion(s) and philosophy in a new world
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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InnovateGuy wrote:tycho wrote:The Western brand of thinking can't contain the challenges of the present world, but the traditional African 'systems' have all the necessary ingredients for a peaceful and prosperous world, and universal brotherhood and freedom.
And sweeter still is that even the challenges outlined in the 'Laussane spirit' are so easy to surmount!
Freedom at last.
This is a 'huge' generalisation. Deal with the specifics first.
What is the 'western brand of thinking'? The term 'religion' implies that a set of 'sects' or people agree on a set of beliefs. No one can claim that the 'western world' has a single 'religion' without deliberately leaving out pieces of evidence which contradict this notion.
"African traditional systems' is a misnomer. Yes, Africa is a continent. But with regards to beliefs, there is no universal set of 'beliefs' or 'systems' which could be classified as "African."
Think of the people in Egypt and the Bantu's in DR Congo. While the "Egyptians" largely believed in heavenly bodies as the source of spiritual power, the people in DR Congo believed that their 'gods' lived in the forest.
Nonetheless, each society, or set of communities, had their own 'way of life' which informed their 'behavior.' Colonization broke many of those 'ways of life.' Today, it's no longer about the community; it's about every individual for himself. But don't sit in silence 'praying' for the return of the "African ways of life." That's not coming back.
Many years ago, Chinua Achebe captured what you're mourning about in his famous novel " Things Fall Apart." Indeed, everything fell apart, and I don't see any come back within this generation. While it may be true that there was variety in cultural expression within the African continent, it shouldn't be assumed that there were no bodies politic that were in interaction. Such interactions constited of a shared value system that can be enunciated. The same with the 'West'. Yes Colonialism eclipsed African traditions. But do these enlightenment forces meet our needs as Africans and human global needs? The Missionaries came with certain ideas about God, are these ideas still valid? Let's take the Church as an example. How does our understanding of God change as gays and homosexuals are embraced? Or as information technology decentralizes authority and increases human capacities? It would certainly be irresponsible for us not to consider these issues. Like now, the world is moving towards communalism, and who are best placed to effect this?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Tokyo wrote:Bored- right time for us atheists to start counting our loses while preparing for that thy eternal fire. Question is how hot will it be? Anybody? This is for you @Tokyo. After death, Allah says in the Quran surah Nisaa 4:52: " Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire:
as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty:
for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise." So if Allah wants to burn Hitler 999,999 times He can do it. If Allah wants to burn him 10,000 times He can do it in Ahera. People cannot do it in this worldBecause in this world, if police catches, you can compensate a maximum one death. He killed 1,000,000 so how will you punish for the remaining 999,999 lives? Without life after deathonly believing in God is not sufficient. Only believing in Allah will not justify why robbing is bad, why rapping is bad etc. IMPORTANT: Since you are intelligent manI can tell you that scientists have recently proved that heat receptors are only found on the skin. Somebody burnt 100% on the skin does not feel anymore pain due to heat. How could a book 1,400 years old know about this concept?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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i_am_saved wrote:You have shed light?
'western brand of thinking'
Northern vs Southern Europeans.
This distinction has been attributed to religion; Northerners more 'industrious' than the southerners.
No northern country has so far needed bailout unlike several southern countries; the evidence cited. (There is no way to disprove this account.)
Therefore which? northern vs southern worldview, symbols and interactions and relationships.
'African traditional systems'
There are how many individual distinct African traditional systems?
Each with aspects, philosophy, mysticism on its origins and consequent societal systems built upon that myth that also affected its relations +vely or -vely with the next system. So which one are you referring to.
'Present world'
North Horr despite being on the same 'present world' as Manhattan, are also in 'different worlds'. So what is this 'present world' you speak of?
'challenges'
the challenges in mutindwa that threaten and concern the individuals there are not the challenges in Hollywood.
'ingredients'
philosophies are as varied as the thoughts they represent. so which one?
So you see, please give an explicit definition of what you have in mind.
You need to use similar definitions in all areas so as to talk about oranges with oranges. Northerners and Southerners certainly share values even despite their differences. Same for Africans. It's these shared values that we are talking about. If you go to Mutindwa you'll find someone on the internet, events there concern everyone across the globe.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Tokyo wrote:Bored- right time for us atheists to start counting our loses while preparing for that thy eternal fire. Question is how hot will it be? Anybody? It's not lost on me that you are stating a western idea. And still, why should atheism be a club? Atheists can't conduct a census, doing so would result in religion. Metaphors of eternal fire and the like, need not be issues of concern. The issue of concern is being.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:guru267 wrote:Islam is generally in line with the ATR!! You have a point @Guru. Just slight addition. Islam is in line with ATR, but bit advanced in the sense that Islam has come to regulate things, which were practiced in the wrong way in ATR. It regulated it by bringing in limits and responsibility. Sadly in other ways of life (read religions) like Christianity, it is a license to promiscuity. Because, mostly they go by Western culture or traditions. Many miss to understand that for Muslims, standards of morality are not set by Western culture or thinking. But it is set by divine
revelation. Also, very importantly Islam has not come up with anything new. All the practices in Islam, were noticeable among all ancient communities. Which include African traditions, the Hindu, There was, Babylons, Persian etc The act of 'regulating', or changing a peoples consciousness is inevitable as cultures interact, and knowledge increased. This process is still on, and we are now talking about our approach to this kind of interaction and its basis.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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guru267 wrote:tycho wrote:The Western brand of thinking can't contain the challenges of the present world, but the traditional African 'systems' have all the necessary ingredients for a peaceful and prosperous world, and universal brotherhood and freedom.
And sweeter still is that even the challenges outlined in the 'Laussane spirit' are so easy to surmount!
Freedom at last. Christianity introduced a merciful, forgiving God who recognised our weakness for sin! The result: Adopting sin as a way of life with the very small consequence of "saying sorry" Christians are now lovers of sin as it intrigues them! I wonder if it Is it possible to find a popular tv show or movie today missing murder, deceit, adultery, fornication, lust, greed, and satanism?? btw Majority of the people acting these things are at church come Sunday! I've even heard gays and lesbians asking me to cast the first stone if I am without sin! Such is an interpretation of God. And it's a resultant. How else can we understand ourselves, and God?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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tycho wrote:Tokyo wrote:Bored- right time for us atheists to start counting our loses while preparing for that thy eternal fire. Question is how hot will it be? Anybody? It's not lost on me that you are stating a western idea. And still, why should atheism be a club? Atheists can't conduct a census, doing so would result in religion. Metaphors of eternal fire and the like, need not be issues of concern. The issue of concern is being. 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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tycho wrote:The Western brand of thinking can't contain the challenges of the present world, but the traditional African 'systems' have all the necessary ingredients for a peaceful and prosperous world, and universal brotherhood and freedom.
And sweeter still is that even the challenges outlined in the 'Laussane spirit' are so easy to surmount!
Freedom at last. Jambo Bw. Tycho! You didn't mention religion and l don't think your intention was to make it the central theme in your thread. Having said that l got somehow interested to know what this 'spirit' is and in so doing got total derailed! quote:Our members from Africa and Asia reminded us that in their context, the powers of darkness are very real and spiritual warfare is where they live all the time. Their families are still only one or two generations removed from a spiritist, animist or occult heritage.I know it takes some time to understand you,but this one doesn't wash!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/12/2013 Posts: 69
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tycho wrote:i_am_saved wrote:You have shed light?
'western brand of thinking'
Northern vs Southern Europeans.
This distinction has been attributed to religion; Northerners more 'industrious' than the southerners.
No northern country has so far needed bailout unlike several southern countries; the evidence cited. (There is no way to disprove this account.)
Therefore which? northern vs southern worldview, symbols and interactions and relationships.
'African traditional systems'
There are how many individual distinct African traditional systems?
Each with aspects, philosophy, mysticism on its origins and consequent societal systems built upon that myth that also affected its relations +vely or -vely with the next system. So which one are you referring to.
'Present world'
North Horr despite being on the same 'present world' as Manhattan, are also in 'different worlds'. So what is this 'present world' you speak of?
'challenges'
the challenges in mutindwa that threaten and concern the individuals there are not the challenges in Hollywood.
'ingredients'
philosophies are as varied as the thoughts they represent. so which one?
So you see, please give an explicit definition of what you have in mind.
You need to use similar definitions in all areas so as to talk about oranges with oranges. Northerners and Southerners certainly share values even despite their differences. Same for Africans. It's these shared values that we are talking about. If you go to Mutindwa you'll find someone on the internet, events there concern everyone across the globe. Shared values are not independent of differences. Shared values do not, cannot override differences. Talking of shared values as if they are universal and cannot be influenced by the differences is simplistic. The different worldviews even affect how these 'shared values' are viewed if they are even really 'shared'. If you are talking about the shared values in this thread to the exclusion of differences, then you are being very simplistic, basic, elementary. This debate is therefore simplistic, basic, elementary and not realistic. In wazua parlance, this thread would be ABK!!!! Just for Mukiri.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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Quote from the same 'spirit'.
Influx of Non-Christian Worldview: The massive migrations of peoples from the Third World to the West has brought a torrent of non-Christian worldviews and practices into our midst. Increasing mobility has also exposed developing countries to new fringe groups, cults and freemasonry.
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