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The Mortgage Company - Any Info on Them?
a4architect.com
#31 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2013 4:06:24 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@litro.
Architect/Qs fees are based on actual construction cost. Actual construction cost is the amount of money a developer pays a contractor.
A contractor is selected through tendering where the best/lowest contractor is chosen. How then can architects/qs inflate this? Its impossible.
A construction contract involves only 2 parties
1.developer
2. contractor.
Arch/qs cant increase the sum in the contract unless thru variation again authorized by developer.
With many people not understanding how construction process works, its very easy for unregulated players to take advantage of consumers.

I personally get a few issues monthly from house buyers whose houses are cracking,leaking and many other structural defect.

My first question to them is whether they know their architect/eng/qs. They have no idea. They only know the developer.
Under kenyan laws, nothing can be done to the developers unless under law of tort.
If these were more informed, they should have insisted on seeing arch/eng certifiations to inspections etc.
This taking adavantage of gullible Kenyans needs to be stopped by someone.
My main issue with TMC is that they are not giving consumers all the info . For example, their construction cost is at kes 27 to 28k per m2. This by any standards is high enough for any customer to construct , hire professionals to check standards and still remain with change.

As per Kenyan law and all laws governing construction in all other countries, construction industry is regulated in an orderly manner so as to protect consumers.
Unfortunately, consumers if left to themselves can easly unknowingly perform Harakiri.
For example, i bet you did not know that the TMC costs are higher than for self build.
I also bet you didnt know that for the same high cost, the end result is a product that has not utilised quality assurance standards.

Give names etc for the architects/qs who inflate building costs so as to get fees. There are systems put in place to protect the consumer such as BORAQS registration, AAK etc.
What consumers take as inflated cost is the confusion as to whether a project is low, middle or high cost. Low cost starts from 20k per m2. High cost is in the range of 40 to 50k per m2.
This confuses consumers as to the quality.
With confused consumers, irresponsible business people take this up and make it worse.
Please check out TMC page here where they say they construct at 20k per m2 but when you calculate, its even higher.

Standard Finishes (Basic House -50sqm)- Kes 20,000 per sqm

http://www.tmcafrica.com/our-services/makazi-mema

Calculate this to see for yourself
BR - 55sqm (Kes 1,500,000)
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#32 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2013 4:21:05 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
The beauty about construction arguments is that we can all see for ourselves the final product.
We can then interrogate the budget to compare.

If anyone has done the TMC house, can they post pics for us to see?
Assuming it costed them 28k per m2, lets compare this to @pennystockers with 20k per m2.
The difference is like day and night.
Someone pays through the nose for lesser quality than selfbuild.
The difference between kes 20k which is the normal vs TMC 27k per m2 is a whooping 40% increase.
This 40% increase is without full time consultancy and ability to customise your design to your liking.

End result is a high cost of construction for a lower valued product.

Check this cost here. They say kes 20k per m2.


Check the cost here. You have to devide the cost with the area. Its 27.2k per m2.




This is what 20k per m2 can give you.Excellent aesthetic and workmanship.




As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
tom_boy
#33 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2013 6:30:04 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
a4architect.com wrote:
@clk.
There are ways to reduce construction cost eg using innovative tech eg south african moladi etc etc.
http://www.moladi.net/

http://www.frametech.co.za/

These methods are based on science and usually have consumer protection standards e.g engineering.arch.qs specifications.

TMC method is not showing any new way of reducing construction cost apart from crude shortcuts of undercutting consultants.

@pennystocker here in wazua is achieving much less than TMC with his kes 20k per m2.

http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...px?g=posts&m=415602

80% of Kenyans construct using @pennystockers method and it works.

The TMC method is faulty because it costs slightly more than self build but with risks. In self build, owner decides how to deal with risks eg by reducing them and including consultants .
In TMC method, they dont give the owner an ability to reduce their risk.
They also dont help to add on to knowledge base that can propel Kenya to South African construction innovation level.

With the TMC method at kes 27k per m2, this is too much for the service compared with the facxt that someone can still get the same for kes 20k per m2 and still manage to include consultants to reduce risk.


I think a4 has just revealed his beef with TMC. He feels TMC is undercutting consultants. This is without doing any research or presenting facts. If I construct at 25,000 per square metre, whether I use self supervision or use TMC what is the beef. Isn't the 25,000/mtre square inclusive of consultant fees and materials etc etc. Help me understand. In my opinion, there is no need to add even that 50,000shs mentioned above as all the costs are within this 25,000 per metre square.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
a4architect.com
#34 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2013 6:41:11 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@tom boy.
The issue is not whether consultants are paid or not.
The issue is whether consultants give their advisory services to TMC. If they do, then TMC needs to publicly reveal which registered arch/qs/eng they are working with so that in future, the law can hold them responsible for quality assurance.
As mentioned earlier, i get several complaints monthly from people whose buildings have issues and are looking for solutions.
In such cases, construction law cant apply.The developers go Scot free. The law didnt envisage that clients will be this gullible to let developers milk them dry. When we begin to see if we can get a word from arch/eng, is when i realise the house owner has no such info. The developers simply ask the client to go to court where he will loose of course since he buys as is where is.
In developed countries, such cant happen since all know whose responsibility it is for quality assurance.

Here is TMC telling all and sundry that they have the ability to offer supervisiory services.
Quote:
TMC Project Management Services

To ensure that the contractor adheres to the agreed timelines for constructing the House within Six (6) months for Bungalows and 9(Nine) months for Maisonette after approval of the Plans and uses all reasonable care, skill and workmanship in construction of the houses.

To inspect and oversee the construction process for and on behalf of the client.

http://www.tmcafrica.com/our-services/makazi-mema


This by itselft is a contravention of construction laws in Kenya.
Only an architect/qs/eng who is registered can offer this service legally.

The info am giving here is for any new potential house owners to benefit. Customers who buy TMC products and services are less than 1% of any average architects business. TMC is therefore not competing or threatening consultancy in any way.
What i would like to see is TMC revealing to their customers exactly what they are offering to them. Customers can then choose . Legaly, the law still does not allow customers to just blindly loose their hard earned money like that.
Thats why construction industry services are regulated.

Again, the average architects clients is not the single residential building which is TMCs main target.
Am only giving a detailed opinion for those willing to think scientifically with calculations and facts. For those using emotions to make construction decisions, feel free to go ahead.
For those willing to engage in factual calculation based debate, we can discuss.Its a free world.

@Elder put up a post asking for help about TMC and am giving my honest unbiased best opinion. You can choose to ignore it or go by it. If you or TMC give me factual concrete science based argument to the contrary, i will accept it.....and move on..smile

TMC needs to understand that they cant purport to offer the public such specialised services and get away with it.
The other day we saw a Waiganjo doctor in Buru buru.
Arguments that he could be cheaper than the rest dont hold water.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Litro
#35 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2013 8:52:03 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 120
Location: KENYA
@a4a...architects design and are the lead consultants in a construction project. A Qs does the costing of the design. My understanding is that proffessional fees are a percentage of this cost. My beef with some architects is that they will design their own dream house for their clients with minimal input from the gullible clients..you will therefore find beautiful houses in the totally wrong location. Architects are not the only guarantee as to quality as well..the construction rate for TMC is enough to pay genuine consultants. TMC are not in it for the short run i believe they have a long term plan.
Mukiri
#36 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:36:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
A prudent man would be well advised to listen to a4architect. The only problem I see here, is that he goes on and on and on and...... sometimes repeating himself. Yes, it shows passion, but it also comes out like he's trying to force someone into buying his views. Mbloo, you can only share your opinion, who was it that said 'Those that fight monsters should take care not to become monsters themselves..'

@a4architect, I have a few questions
1. In @Pennystocker's thread, I can't remember him talking about consulting. From what I gathered, he uploaded an architectural drawing, he was his own contractor who got lucky to get a good fundi. Please be kind enough to point out the consultations
2. What exactly are these consultations? Why are they important? How much do they, on average cost? And if they can be under-cut, yet Nairobi is still standing... how does choosing to do them translate to a saving?
3. In simple(numbered) English, please take a novice through the process of construction from when he approaches an architect, approvals etc to completion... and monies payable.

Thank you

Proverbs 19:21
tom_boy
#37 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2013 4:54:06 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
In order to get building approvals, an architect and structural engineer must be involved. For a4 to insinuate that TMC will use quacks or not use these professionals at all , and all this without evidence, is below par for him. Instead, let a4 advice us, as a wanjiku building for the first time, what steps I should take when dealing with a company like TMC to ensure I get a quality product.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Tokyo
#38 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:49:53 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
TMC is employing economy of scale. What @A4 is failing to understand the company is capable of employing those full time registered professionals. What I know construction is dominated by cartels. Break away from them and cost is reduced significantly. TMC the way to go.
work to prosper
Tito44
#39 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:33:49 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 111
Like any serious professional, a4architect is concerned about his industry i.e. construction. He has pointed out his concerns and even said that TMC should come out clear on some of the things they are saying. What is wrong with this?

I don't know him personally but have come to realize that he is probably the only architect in this part of the world who freely shares information in the construction industry. Information that you will pay premium rates for elsewhere. Kindly visit his site http://www.a4architect.com/ to know what i am talking about. Is he the only architect on Wazua? I guess not, yet if you ask an architectural question, he will probably be the only architect that will answer you; for free, unless you require architectural plans done for you.

That said, let's not tarnish his good name for a statement that may simply not have come out the way he intended it to be. In my own understanding, he is simply concerned that TMC have not fully disclosed details.
tom_boy
#40 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:23:23 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
I fully agree with you @Tito44 and I commend @a4 for his good contributions on this forum. Its just that I don't see his point in this particular discussion and he needs to let us know what exactly is wrong with the TMC model without just claiming that they will not use professionals.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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