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Ruto is terrified
Strategist
#61 Posted : Monday, October 27, 2008 1:09:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/6/2008
Posts: 5
My thoughts on the Waki report:

First,Waki has ditched the distinction between 'spontaneus' attacks and planned violence.

The violence in the Rift Valley was NOT spontaneous.

Spontaneous is when you car hits mine and i immediately get out of your car calling you all manner of epithets and we are soon fighting,

It is no longer spontaneous when I go home,get a panga or arrows and bow and come to your house accompanied by a group of 20 of my friends. That is planned violence. Planned violence cos i took the time to look for my friends,look for weapons,tracked where you live then approached your house.

But let's look at the legal and political implications of the Waki report on Ruto:

It is likely there is no hard evidence against Ruto & Co that would stand the test of 'reasonable doubt'However,what matters here is public perception - not legality. There was no hard evidence of rigging at KICC - yet most people believe Kibaki rigged the elections.There may be no hard evidence of Ruto's alleged crimes. But what does that do to his political standing outside the Kalenjin? As long as the ordinary Kisii,Kikuyu,Maasai and Bukusu believes that Ruto was behind the violence that the Kalenjin visited upon them,then Ruto stands little chance of getting any significant votes from these communities in a presidential election.Meaning that for Ruto to climb up the politcal ladder,he has to keep supporting candidates from other tribes. Meaning the Kalenjin vote remains in Raila's basket as I cannot see Kalenjins supporting a Kikuyu or Kikuyu backed candidate. Of course Ruto and the kalenjin could strike out their own path by running for the presidency. But then political reality would hit home that a divided Luo and Kalenjin vote would let in a Kikuyu or Kikuyu backed candidate. So this would demand pragmatism to win the elections. And pragmatism in this case would mean supporting Raila.This is how Raila is using the Waki report to make sure the Kalenjin will back him in 2012 - by painting Kalenjin and their leaders as responsible for the violence against Kikuyus,Luhyas,Kisiis and Maasai. So while Ruto may have an easy legal battle,the political battle i think he has lost it. Raila is in effect challenging the Kalenjin - vote for me and we win in 2012 with me as president or vote for your candidate and see another Kikuyu backed candidate in state house.Which is the lesser evil,Raila or a Kikuyu backed candidate? That's the question which Raila is posing Kalenjin.




Mwendabio
#62 Posted : Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:06:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 6
@ strategist,the Kenya situation was as follows: 2 teams are playing a rugby match in a hotly contested finals. The rowdy supporters are jeering and cheering their respective teams. The match goes into a lengthy extra time. Tension is rising. Supporters of one side read mischief in the referee and start to get really angry. They cause commotion inside the stadium,lighting big fires and throwing pebbles in the air. Then,just before the final whistle in a match that one team thought it had already won,the referee awards a somewhat controversial penalty to the opposing side. The team scores the penalty and carries the trophy on aggregate points. The supporters of the losing team start to throw stones and fireballs (spontaneously) at the other team and the referee,believing that they have been robbed of victory. Weaponry gets sophisticated as the war intensifies. The war gets more planned and organized with time. Death,destruction and dispalcement result. The other side,caught completely unawares (by both the match victory and the war),is overpowered and plans retaliatory attacks. The retaliatory attacks are well planned. As well,death,destruction,and displacement result. End of the match and its war and now is the time for the referee,the players,and supporters to account for their actions. Waki,the match commissioner,has just delievered a report of the account of the contest. Even this is about to cause another round of war. War,war and war forever...one solution for peace results in more war...until the Chief Commissioner Himself comes. The Prince of Peace.



Better to have stolen,than to be caught stealing!

Viras
#63 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:26:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/31/2008
Posts: 6
Hideous creature!! He should be hanged!
Njunge
#64 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:34:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Politicians from RV are funny to say the least......Seriously...Eti they want Koffi to hand back the envelope.....!!!...As if it would happen.Can Ruto stand toe to toe with the other Ruto halafu wajichekele for an hour??....In the interim,March 1 is approaching fast.....i wish the keep bickering until time catches up with them.......
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
steve.m
#65 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:44:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/7/2006
Posts: 44
This one they will make all the effort to bury it and they might succeed,you will start hearing of amnesty ama like Bosire and Goldenberg,Waki may have left some loopholes so that the cases will not be prosecutable.

Everybody has a plan `till they get hit -Mike Tyson
Mtibe
#66 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:49:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 20
@surealligator

Thats a brilliant move cause at least you have isseud your allegations from waki report well and people can look at the issues and to know that killing of kikuyus in rift valley was pre-panned.

What we are expecting from you know is getting the sources where you had this pre-planned from rift valley raiders and their leadership to get also the detail of Uhuru Kenyatta,Francis Muthaura,John michuki kabando wa kabando,simeon nyachae,peter kanyaga,and the fundraising done to protect the kikuyu and revenge.

Put the following from your sources so that all kenyans can know the truth.

How kikuyu leaders led by John michuki who was the minister for internal security deployed policemen and GSU personell from kikuyu,meru and community to rift valley western and nyanza so that they would shoot aimlessly at protesters and revenge the killings of their brothers and sisters killed in rift valley and suppress the odm suppoters.This led to discriminate killings of hundred in kisumu and western by police bullets and they were not only police by 85% of those police who shot people to death in kibera and western were police from GEMA community who had their orders to protect their kinsmen and suppress the ODM by having an excuse of protestors who wanted to damage but reason was to revenge the Kikuyus and Gema killed in rift valley.Though they could not get kalenjins in nairobi cause they are scarce they organised to kill LUOS and Luhyas who awere aligned to ODM as this could equal the number of those who were killed in rift valley.

- How Uhuru kenyatta and kabando wa kabando together with the Nairobi mafia Maina kamanda mobilised mungiki youths and gave them not only money but were armed with guns which came from michuki docket so that they could get revenge to kalenjins and LUOS and due to scarcity of kalenjins in nairobi they raided in sprawling slums in Nairobi where they made killings and raped luos and luhyas under the full watch of policemen(who mostly were from GEMA community as other policemen from other communities were redeployed in GEMA areas and Ukambani.Scores were killed in nairobi by mungiki who were getting orders from General Kamanda in revenge of kikuyus killed by kalenjins and instead they were hacking LUOS and LUHYAS to death.

-All these orders emenated from state house nairobi from where francis muthaura cordianted the logistics and plans to revenge were made,this is where a plan to cut the road to western in naivasha was also planned and fundraising led by kanyago,kirubi and uhuru kenyatta was done where kikuyu businessmen would pull resources together and continue to sponsor an effective militia personell of the mungiki wing where they would defend their kikuyu sons and daughters and their leadership.As this happened roads in naivasha were clossed as ordered and people from western were hacked to death by mungiki militia from P.S.V vehicles and tens were killed everyday. The killings as they continued on roads another cordinated wing went to LUO houses and burnt families to death as they decapitated their bodies and raped........................

Please i hope you can continue as the report has more than this allegations i suppose


Investing is tricky
Njunge
#67 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:55:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@mtibe,

You would make an 'excellent' witness and your 'evidence' is vital either to the tribunal or ICC......Now.Let them be hauled to courts.......Na uwache kuharahara......
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
steve.m
#68 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:02:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/7/2006
Posts: 44
@Mtibe: All sides were into it but one side [ some kales political leaders] have been commiting these crimes for decades but this round they are not politically correct and Raila can`t tetea them and don`t forget if they never had started it in Riftvalley no one would have been killed in Limuru and Naivasha maybe even Kisumu .

Everybody has a plan `till they get hit -Mike Tyson
Luda
#69 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:46:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/23/2008
Posts: 8
Since he jetted in from Netherlands Ruto has shown all signs of being terrified and running scared. A critical look at the statements he made with reference to the Waki report reveal this `innuendo,fiction,rumours hearsay etc'.. ati watanipeleka hague kwani hague ni nini? has he run amok?why use all those words? Ruto`s remarks have only generated more heat than light and I wish he would just keep the silence of the lambs instead of contradicting himself by the hour or better still use his foot soldiers instead of defending himself and being cast in bad light. Raila has his Midiwo,Nyong`o,Kajwang` etc. In giving his opinion on waki report each day he has exposed his soft underbelly and is gradually losing the hero`s tag hitherto associated with him. Why did they involve the international community in resolving the electoral dispute. Koffi Annan serves at the whims of U.S and was in un office when U.S invaded iraq what did he do as the un sec gen?The fact is Ruto,who has made his career talking about the law for big boys and small boys has an equally good chance to match his words with action. And that reminds me some other thing the wahi panel was a creation of Ruto and other negotiators. That Ruto can be adversely mentioned by a committee he helped set up,vindicates the story of the french man who invented the guillotine that chopped off peoples heads and eventually he lay on his own invention for his head to be chopped. In the meantime another controversy should be started to cool the heat over the waki report because at this rate we will forget any meaningful business.

Luda
PONDI
#70 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:07:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/8/2007
Posts: 885
found this somewhere kwa net...is it credible?
-'' che kitupche,angen ale bik che chang’ eng’ okwek kotomo onyoru boroindo osoman ng’alek che tia che kisir justice waki. Ki asoman ane tugul ak amache amwowook ale chu ko ng’alek che eechen che bo siasa che itorchingei keng’emech gotab kaalenjiin tugul agot kosiir kiy age tugul ne kigeyaiyweech kong’eete ye kingoberber colonel
meinhertzhagen koitalel arap samoei si kobarei.

http://rkipngetich.instablogs.com/entry … tice-waki/




how waki was used.

my brothers,not many of you have heard a chance to read any part of this waki report. I have read all of it,and i wish to assure you that this is the greatest political plot against the entire kalenjin community that you have ever seen in kenya ’s history,ever since meinertzhargen lured koitalel arap samoei to his death. The whole report has one goal – to weaken me in odm,and also,to a lesser extent,uhuru in pnu. Even during last year’s campaigns,i had made it clear that there is no way kalenjins are going to wait for raila to rule 10 years,then musalia 10 years,before we take our turn. That 20 year wait now became 25years with kibaki’s re-election!


my decision to oppose mudavadi,and the fact that i am not prepared to be as timid as he is in odm while nyong’o,oburu,ida and other luos make all the decisions is what has led to the shoddy waki report. I have been accused of inciting people to remove madoadoa,yet at all those rallies of odm where that word was mentioned,raila was present and contributed actively. Madoadoa is not a kalenjin word and if i was the only one talking about this we would have said.

We know that it was kalonzo who first proposed waki’s name to kibaki. However,raila immediately called him after kibaki and discussed the issue at harambee house in april,and raila took credit by pretending that he was lobbying for waki. Waki is a corrupt man. You recall that he had been suspended as a judge on corruption allegations,and he was only reinstated on a technicality. He has been used by the same indians who hang around kalonzo,receiving a lot of cash to support his three mistresses,two housed in kilimani and one in lavington (house no 1468). After raila called waki and lied that he had lobbied for him,he then arranged with his south african friends to deposit $600,000 in an account at a bank in johannesburg . That is why waki’s shoddy report has clearly avoided implicating raila in even one riot in kibera,not even when raila directly told the kibera fellows to ‘hammer’ livondo and his supporters on sight! i have only outlined the above events in order to set out the background against which we must now plan our response. We have been betrayed by the man who put us in these problems in the first place. However,as usual,none of raila’s plans are effective. By targeting the kikuyus as well,he has handed us the best lifeline we need. Those of you who watched alfred mutua tearing waki’s report apart on 23rd oct will understand what i mean. My brothers,whether we like it or not,the kikuyus are numerous and rich. I have now started to appreciate why mzee moi decided to work with them,and as we all know,the wazee see beyond the hills. The kikuyu are not our worst enemy after all. The matters of land are not that critical,especially considering that in the next 40 years,urbanization will replace our traditional farming. What we need is a political partnership that guarantees us power in the civil service,and wealth. If you do mathematics,you will realize that whoever the kikuyus ally themselves with will easily rule this country,and in 2012,if we hold onto raila and kikuyu promote kalonzo,we shall remain in opposition. That is the reason why i had the meeting with the elders and we resolved to ask your support for the following issues.

1) that we immediately reinstate madoadoa back to their land.

2) that i formulate a close working relationship with uhuru. This is not difficult,because my tours on the kikuyu farms have been well received.


3) we strategically stay within odm holding onto all our votes until the right time to engage the kikuyu directly.

For those of you who have misgivings,i urge you to consider that no one can beat a combined kalenjin kikuyu vote. We can easily secure the number one or number two position if we work with kikuyu,compared to my current situation in odm. I have asked for this document to be circulated because in the next few days,there are several critical meetings in which we as a community must chart our way forward. There is no use for us to continue to give support to people who only want to use us while they enjoy power which only came to them because of one community,kalenjin. As of today,apart from the ministerial posts which we had to extract from raila by force,there is not even one kalenjin who raila has intervened to give a job directly. None. Raila has not addressed positively even one of the problems facing our community,in fact,he has only caused us more problems,including asking orengo to ensure that we lose our title deeds. My brothers,let us wake up!
willin2learn
#71 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:04:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 1,178
......I guess he did not like what he saw when his plane overflew Hague on his way back from Amsterdam..
Mwendabio
#72 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:19:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 6
@ surealligator,your account of events,if proven true,does not amount to 'spontaneous' meaning that some supporters were well briefed before the match to cause war and mayhem. The planners and the foot soldiers need to be held accountable. The authors of such information should be able to support the charges in Waki's report to provide credible evidence that indeed planned and spontaneous fighting occured both before and after the elections. Whether planned or spontaneous,a crime is a crime and is a crime.

@ pondi,that is the politics of justice. Kenyans want to see how this matter will be handled by parties,the government,and individual leaders. In my mind,a new coonstitution is needed urgently as new elections approach next year or latest by 2010. Amidst all these events,something has to give. I see an early election in Kenya. Parties break up and the Cabinet cannot hold on the account of the 2007 election mess. Kenyans,please do not vote in tribal war lords and people who want to perpertuate impunity. Your vote is your power to a new start,every now and again. Just as Ruto tells his Kalenjin folks to wake up,I ask Kenyans to wake up!



Better to have stolen,than to be caught stealing!
Obi 1 Kanobi
#73 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:46:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@ Pondi

That email seems to have been drafted by the same guy who drafted the supposed MOU between Raila and the Muslims that did the rounds before the elections. Its meant to divide and rule.


Is there something like a moneyday
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Ngalaka
#74 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:37:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
Nobody has any doubt anymore that Ruto is terrified to death.
The evil marriage that is ODM,is coming to and end,just as soon as it came into being.
Look at the cracks,nay fissures,in the outfit,unpatchable.
ODM was clandestinely bought from one Imanyara by a serial evil schemmer and party wrecker/changer. How do you purchase a party for purposes of ruling Kenya - read bad faith. The buyer has a history of such purchases,remember NDP of Oludhe fellow.
Odm was founded on evil,and sewn together by evil designs for evil goals,hence would never have lasted.
The glue keeping it together was the hatred of some people (evil). The premise of its existence and propagation was evil.


Things arent always the way they look like
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
timber
#75 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:00:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/1/2008
Posts: 12
@strategist You had a good take and i think the Ruto side saw it coming and put the house in order.
I think we kenyans are ruled by level of hypocrisy( unafiki) we tend to speak double while still hiding on our tribal caccons.
@steve m and others,I think its a damn shame when you say that were it not for kalenjins unleashing terror in rift valley then the luos and luhyas would not have been killed.Did luos and luhyas hack kikuyus to death in their places? No why then were they killed by Mungiki its because kikuyus were revenging and they could not afford to follow the kalenjins so instead they looked on Luos and Luhyas.Were those killed in revenge not people and instead of kikuyus killing kales they killed luos an d some luhyas cause they were in ODM.Isnt that what beth mugo talked and most kikuyu leaders talk; that the deaths occured in rift valley were planned and they died more and the deaths which occured later were cause of revenge only???That is what every gema fellow thinks deep down but talks of selective justice later on.

- This shows that GEMA community deaths are so painful than other deaths,it means there are people who are special here in kenya.C'mon lets put the rubbish aside Kikuyus are only feeling for themselves and only Ruto to be hanged but their kinsmen who organised the deaths for others only revenged so they did not kill 'much' and others dont feel the pain like they do.So please can we stop hypocrisy and face the situation head on and if its hanging everyone should be hanged but lets not hide and talk of Ruto only while others who killed are talked in periphery.

@ pondi what you are saying is feasible but not realistic.The problems in rift valley cannot be solved by kalenjins colluding with their perrenial victims kikuyus by giving them land back!! Then what after kikuyus have their land back?Kikuyus will continue to work hard and till their land and in next 10 or so years kalenjins will not have the land as they would have sold all of it due to economic power and then the youths of kalenjins shall be jobless and accesibility to economic resources will be minimal thus develop hatred again slowly. Talking of kalenjins and kikuyus cohabitating its possible but hard due to the cultural difference and suspicion.Kikuyus shall never forget kalenjins though they can forget,kikuyus were driven to rift valley for economic purposes and are working hard to meet their demands. Uhuru and ruto in pact? what will that make,kalenjins and kikuyus?? Kalenjins do not need to pact with a person or tribe to survive what kalenjins need as ruto said is that they need a constitution where all problems shall be resolved and election shall not be an issue of tribal competition which develops hatred on top of underlying issues like land and resources whether its perceptional or reality. Similarly Moi has been there for 24 yrs and he did not put kalenjins at economic independence but rather he developed them a mentality or relaxing without hard work though they have fertile land,he did not push them to education en masse and mostly important did not instill the enterpreneurship attitude while Moi himself was closing down rivatex,milk firms e.t.c and developing white elephants projects which were non-beneficial to kalenjins.So kalenjins dont need pacts what they need is being enterpreurial,hardwork and a constitution which will protect their leadership and resources where neccesary.

What we need is developing a constitution of parliamentary system cause even if we hang ruto and michuki today does that mean it will end the war in future?? If we cant resolve the real issues as Ruto is saying then not only shall we see more deaths in future but what it will come will be a disaster itself,it was not what odm or pnu was saying it was something hatred which was developing towards other communities be it perception or not they need to be resolved constitutional and this is the right time as constitution is written during or after crisis.

Lets be realistic and face the issues not hypocritical and avoid things in future not postponing them.

Mchumia Juani hula Kivulini
muekezaji
#76 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:11:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/20/2008
Posts: 5
@pondi

Kikuyus have been in opposition for 24 yrs didnt they create wealth more than the kalenjins who were in power?? Creating wealthy is not being close to power but its through hardwork and more hardwok if you think being in goverment will propel you to welath then you are wrong,its hardwork and there is no short cut.

I dont think kikuyus do need kalenjins,Kikuyus are kenyans like any other person and need a good enviroment where there shall not be any hatred and perceptions which are not true but facts,and for this kikuyus can collaborate with any kenyan for prosperity and hardwork but not political.

Bidii yangu
Kaigangio
#77 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:40:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@ all

Why is that the waki report is only sending earthquakes if not tremours in the ODM camps and not PNU despite the fact that members of both camps have been named in that secret envelope?


NEVER TALK OF A RHINO IF THERE IS NO TREE NEAREBY - ZULU PROVERB
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Willy
#78 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:08:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/30/2008
Posts: 39
NO AMOUNT OF WORDS MAY EVER CHANGE THE TRUTH.

Ukiung'wafua mnofu,ujue kuna na kuguguna mfupa.
mononjeru
#79 Posted : Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:09:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/30/2008
Posts: 1
Why is it that most non-gema tribes seem to harbour a deep hatred of kikuyu saying they have 'eaten' coz they were in power?Yet they dont mention the Kalenjin(moi) who have been in power for 24yrs( 2 decades!!) more than combined Kenyatta-14yrs + Kibaki 5yrs?

Doesn't make sense to me.Wish we could Waki the whole lot of thieving,killing bastards!! - Raila,Ruto,Kibaki,Uhuru,most if not ALL Rift Valley MPS!!! and START AFRESH with young DE-TRIBALISED leaders.
Sigiriri
#80 Posted : Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:23:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 319
What is all this about? The kind of posts coming up now look a lot like what we had early in the year - wasn't good at all.

Do you know why TZ pple hate Kenyans so much? Because Kenyans are hardworking and they love to seat and wait for ujamaa s*%t!! Now,whether you are nilote,bantu,cushite or whatever,they will still call you a Kenyan! So can we stop this tribal chatter and realise that you are Kenyan first,then whatever else!!

The Waki report whether locally implemented or at Hague,will see light of day! KENYANS mentioned in there will somehow be taken to book. If not this report,the blood of the slain is on the ground,crying out for justice to be done,and like Cain they will be punished.

The only thing these KENYANS can do is come out like the Rwandese killers and confess. This will help healing the land - which is more important than a few KENYANS 'hanging by the neck until dead!'



Bidii yangu
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