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TNA - I Believe
Kratos
#61 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:28:08 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
nostoppingthis wrote:
Kratos wrote:
selah wrote:
As much as I pity TNA supporters the fact is our politics are never issue based bcoz if they were, all those supporters wuld have realise Uhuru has never done anything since he became a minister.


First and foremost, we don't need any pity. Well I agree with you that Kenyan politics has never been issued based and I can bet you ALL politicians will all say the same things we want to hear. Thirdly, unless you come from Gatundu you have no factual basis to claim he has not done anything.From the way you put it, you seem not to have been around during budget days when he delivered budgets that to be fair were lauded for being impressive and development conscious by most observers. That tells you he was doing a good job in his ministry. Unless there are duties under his ministry at the time that he did not perform to your expectations you're much welcome to highlight them.
Most commentators here are not coming out clearly to raise issues regarding his performance or otherwise. All am seeing here is the usual Kenyan type broadsides that are neither here nor there.
Make no mistake If he is on the ballot paper I will vote for him. If he is not then too bad i will vote for someone else. One thing i know SITANG'OA RELI and life will go on!!


Did he make a great budget speech and not implement?

@Kratos, you keep throwing around, "let's have factual discussions blah blah blah..and provide evidence...", why don't you provide evidence to counter the allegations made by @Pariah...it works both ways you know....


@ Nostop.. @Pariah has thrown around allegations and I have merely asked for evidence so how exactly do i give my own evidence??d'oh! d'oh!
As regards the budget, i have pointed out that UK did well. In my opinion the implementation was carried out as well as could have been. Since you are the one who disapproves isn't it logical for you to back it up?

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
selah
#62 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:28:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
One scandal pple want us to assume it is not there is funding retaliation attacks against Kikuyu perceived enemies.Nguyai confirmed his involvement during cross examination.He is a suspect of Genocide/crime against humanity.

May be his supporters might claim its a witch hunt forgetting that waki a kenyan had named him after interviewing real kenyans.

Another thing that people fail to understand is that prior to his appointment as a nominated MP and subsequently minister for local government...Uhuru did not feature anywhere in the local politics leave alone fight for the rights of the oppressed Kenyans like what Martha karua & Raila did,he was comfortably enjoying the trappings of power and his ascension to politics was thru a tyrant (Moi).

As a finance minister apart from the glaring 'errors' in the budget his stimulus program has not only plunged kenya into an economic plateau but been full of corruption from kazi kwa vijana initiative to the youth fund..actually I dont even know what this stimulus program achieved as the economy has been contracting since its launch.

I would really like TNA supporters to atleast enumerate Uhuru's achievements and Why we shld vote for him...another thing ...how did TNA decide on Uhuru as their flag bearer was their a democratic process to choose him?





'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
2012
#63 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:37:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
pariah wrote:
2012 wrote:
wilyum wrote:
i admired the whole event setup,i wonder where the money to setup all that came from.



Are you serious?



try the many scandals in the past 10 years, any one of them!!!!


Ati scandals? i Believe we haven't seen nothing yet. All of them are eyeing the cookie jar.

BBI will solve it
:)
McReggae
#64 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:41:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
selah wrote:
how did TNA decide on Uhuru as their flag bearer was their a democratic process to choose him?


C'mon boss, only ODM is expected to have internal democracy!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Kratos
#65 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:58:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
selah wrote:
Uhuru did not feature anywhere in the local politics leave alone fight for the rights of the oppressed Kenyans like what Martha karua & Raila did,he was comfortably enjoying the trappings of power and his ascension to politics was thru a tyrant (Moi).

As a finance minister apart from the glaring 'errors' in the budget his stimulus program has not only plunged kenya into an economic plateau but been full of corruption from kazi kwa vijana initiative to the youth fund..actually I dont even know what this stimulus program achieved as the economy has been contracting since its launch.


Well, he stands accused of crimes against humanity and no one disputes that. Unless you're the judge, prosecutor and executioner i believe we have the ICC for that.

Who said you have to have been the second liberation to warrant a title of politician doing something for Kenyans. Actually most of the so called reformists have ended up being the biggest disappointments and jokers Kenya has ever seen ..I don't even need to name them one by one.
About being born with silver spoon up his mouth, well that's a cheap dig at him since its no fault of his.
These "GLARING" errors in the budget speech can you please substantiate how they eventually cost the mwananchi?
As regards the Kazi kwa vijana we all know who is responsible since treasury dispatched the cash to the relevant office.
Are you saying the economic stimulus plan is responsible for the "stagnation" of the Kenyan economy?
I believe its not my place to campaign for him but it would be better if guys here would refrain from allegations that are baseless and inept.

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
selah
#66 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 11:17:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
@kratos if you have been following CBK press briefing you will have heard the governor criticizing treasury for what we are experiencing in the Kenyan economy especially the weakening KSH and the rising inflation.

The IMF has also criticized treasury on its tax exemptions policy which has impacted negatively on revenue collection..the other day I was in a meeting and a KRA official was complaining about the scrapping of income tax filling...which has made it difficult for KRA to keep tabs on taxpayers...

When you see a currency speculative attack, like we have witnessed in this few months, it is symptomatic of a very weak economic policy and Uhuru, the treasury head, bears all responsibility for what we are experiencing now.

DO you know treasury has officials in every level of the government ensuring the money allocated is utilized efficiently...so in a way every fraud or corruption in this ministries involves treasury since one signatory comes from treasury.


'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
McReggae
#67 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 11:26:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Gado on UK working with the youth!!

https://twitter.com/#!/RobertAlai/status/204849361245581313/photo/1
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
nostoppingthis
#68 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 12:57:12 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
McReggae wrote:
Gado on UK working with the youth!!

https://twitter.com/#!/RobertAlai/status/204849361245581313/photo/1


itz
#69 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:13:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
selah wrote:
@kratos if you have been following CBK press briefing you will have heard the governor criticizing treasury for what we are experiencing in the Kenyan economy especially the weakening KSH and the rising inflation.

The IMF has also criticized treasury on its tax exemptions policy which has impacted negatively on revenue collection..the other day I was in a meeting and a KRA official was complaining about the scrapping of income tax filling...which has made it difficult for KRA to keep tabs on taxpayers...

When you see a currency speculative attack, like we have witnessed in this few months, it is symptomatic of a very weak economic policy and Uhuru, the treasury head, bears all responsibility for what we are experiencing now.

DO you know treasury has officials in every level of the government ensuring the money allocated is utilized efficiently...so in a way every fraud or corruption in this ministries involves treasury since one signatory comes from treasury.




@selah.u have nothing on Uhuru,it almost sounds that you trying to look for everything that is not there.Uhuru and his team did their part by stimulating the economy after post election mess that saw the growth slow from 7% to under 2%.Any smart treasury/central bank in the world would have taken the same measures under the same circumstances.On the issue of weakened currency that was because of weak macroeconomic conditions in kenya and many other countries(UG,TZ,Nigeria,Brazil,India etc and it was well cordinated by hedgefunds,look at your charts for proof).Blame that on your MPs because they are responsible for fiscal policy implementation like cutting recurrent expenditure(which uhuru tried to have the parliament do) and laws that cut on unnecessecary imports to try shore up our dollar reserves.The technocrats at treasury are very smart people and you cannot blame uhuru or the technocrats on corruption in the ministries.Once the money has been released to the individual ministries the responsibilities lay squarely with them.
@kratos.Great job giving the facts here,there is too much baseless accusations goin on here.On the issue of being born rich i say to the people no one choses where they are born,what you do in between is all that matters.Uhuru's launch was the best launch i have seen so far and him/or his organizers were very creative.People should learn,appreciate and congratulate good effort,it will make u a better person i promise.
Impunity
#70 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:27:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
kyt wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
should a son be condemned for the shortcomings of his father? then so many including kasin would never have amounted to much

even in Bible days it was u and ur family and goats and chicken and cows


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Impunity
#71 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:30:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
McReggae wrote:
selah wrote:
how did TNA decide on Uhuru as their flag bearer was their a democratic process to choose him?


C'mon boss, only ODM is expected to have internal democracy!!!!


True, and very true.
Applause Applause Applause Applause
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

selah
#72 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 2:12:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
@Itz I have not critisized uhuru for being a son of Jomo I have laid the facts that his stay at treasury has not changed anything..we are actually worse than before he was there.Check the facts below.

Quote:
The World Bank estimates that Kenya’s poverty level stands at 44 to 46 per cent, which is almost the same level it has remained for six years. However, it represents an improvement from 12 years ago when poverty level stood at 56 per cent before falling to 46 per cent in 2005/6.
http://www.businessdaily.../-/tx0i2lz/-/index.html


Quote:
yesterday, Dr Ndii— an economist who has consulted for the government and the World Bank— however said the Central Bank’s decision to support Treasury’s stimulus beyond 2009 was what set the stage for the current run-away inflation and depreciation of the shilling in recent months.

Finance minister Uhuru Kenyatta rolled out a Sh22 billion stimulus package in 2009 that involved employing youths to do menial jobs in urban and rural areas for pay.

The plan succeeded in reversing a 0.8 per cent quarter-on-quarter economic contraction in the first three months of 2009 to positive growth trajectory.

Following the post-election violence of 2008, the Central Bank adopted an “accommodative” monetary policy to support the Treasury’s growth objective that was seen as the only long-term solution to high joblessness among the youth.

That meant keeping interest rates low to promote lending to businesses.

The low interest rate regime, however, translated into higher inflation rates and a weak currency that informed the sudden reversal of the loose monetary policy stance in September.

http://www.businessdaily...-/12d0joez/-/index.html


As we are speaking Kenyas debt to GDP is above 50% ,UG its 33.6 ,while TZ 43.1

'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
itz
#73 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 2:49:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
@Saleh.Just because people claim to be experts doesnt necessarily mean they are always right.I wonder how the high interest rates currently and tight monetary policy are treating you and the kenyan economy today.Here are the facts on inflation.In early 2009 when that stimulus was rolled out price of oil dropped to below 50 dollars per barrel and it was boom time,this year the price more than doubled to over 125 dollars brent.
http://www.indexmundi.co...oil-brent&months=60

That is biggest cause of inflation over those years(external factors) after US did their monetary easing.The stimulus in kenya had to be done because of the abrupt drop in GDP from 7.1 to 1.8%. On those programs for the youth(kazi kwa vijana) am sure u know who is responsible for that.Uhuru and guyz at the treasury wanted that money given to banks and lend competitively to youths with the best business ideas but some people who u know made alot noise and the program was an absolute failure and waste of money.IMF and World Bank cover themselves first before anyone else.They have forced kenya indirectly to stop lending money for business expansion(think about that for a minute)
mkeiyd
#74 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:26:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
Asking for EVIDENCE to back allegations of land grabbing by Mzee Kenyatta is asking too much from ordinary Kenyans.
Does lack of evidence from ordinary Kenyans amount to innocence? NO!
I think when common law was developing, common sense was the key ingredient. My common sense tells me, it is not possible to own swathes of land in a far place like Taita,if you hail from Kiambu.
You can argue that he bought it,i give you that. How about the fund that was set after the white settlers left, was it not for the original land owners to get funds to re-purchase their land? Maybe there was no such fund.As a president, how moral is it, for you to buy land,swathes of it,when you know the original owners are squatters? Thousands of hectares when the populace you lead is landless?
That was the dad's fault,not Uhuru's, you may say. Then how is he going to address historical injustices like the above,the alleged assassinations? HOW? Create some land from thin air for the original owners of the land now owned by the Kenyatta's?
Maybe the numbers will be on his side and win the next general elections,then ICC, then what next? We have a Bashir? Bashir has the Arab money bags,what does Kenya have? Who's drilling the Turkana oil? Tullow. He becomes a Bashir, the drilling stops. I heard today the Japanese gave a 29bn loan for by-passes in Mombasa, that will stop too.
Nobody knows what will happen with the ICC,it's like a dark cloud, no one knows what's inside.
So why take the whole country thru' such uncertainties,just for someone? Why risk your daily bread for someone who never risked for anyone? [Watch out what you throw in response].
You may call it fear-mongering, but unless and until you tell me how the whole thing gonna play out, you will let me monger.

It's not worth it. At all it's not,to take the country into the miasma of uncertainty.
I voted twice for Kibaki,2002 and 2007, because i believed he would transform the country.He has to some extend,but i'm not happy with what happened after 2007.I'm not happy with him side-stepping the law. Now we need a different kind of leader,someone who can [sensibly] address the historical injustices. Somebody not afraid to step on people's toes. I remember during the Mau evictions, i read on this very Wazua people saying "RAO amejimaliza" and i wondered, "Is Mau,the waters and rivers from Mau, RAO's property"? Ain't it for the good of all if Mau is protected,rains fall,Maasai Mara quenched? When it rains,is it RAO who gets the rains? The masqueraders[Uhuru,Kalonzo,Musalia etc] were busy looking at their interests, at the nation's peril. [the omission of Ruto's name is deliberate]
When demolitions for by-passes started in 2003/4, i remember even Kibaki backed away, saying it was RAO[then roads minister] demolishing people's sweat [houses]. Who uses the by-passes now? I gez RAO, all by himself.
With the way things are looking now, that's the kind of guy i would like as my president.
But i have only one vote and the numbers might not be on our side and so, Uhuru might end up winning, well let him win, without my vote. Then i will sit back and watch the Kanu days crawl back, into our sitting rooms and into the bedrooms. Uhuru has been going against the law with the budget several times. He never fought for the new constitution,he was not decisive months before last referendum until he was sure it was safe to be on the YES side. I don't think he has passion for the reforms/constitution.
nostoppingthis
#75 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:41:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
@mkeiyd Applause Applause Applause
Kratos
#76 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:59:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
Quite strange, you want to throw accusations at someone yet when asked for evidence "its asking too much from Kenyans". That is definitely new. So let me give an example, if you are a loan defaulter should your child be denied bank credit since he is your offspring? So should we also blame RAOS kids for the kazi kwa vijana saga, Mollases, 100mill collected for hyacinth etc etc???? REALLY? @ MKeiyd so you think your new found candidate is clean and all others are dirty, please spare us. Lets call a spade a spade, the only reason UK is getting all this heat is because he is the candidate most likely to beat RAO PERIOD!

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
nostoppingthis
#77 Posted : Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:05:01 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
Kratos wrote:
Quite strange, you want to throw accusations at someone yet when asked for evidence "its asking too much from Kenyans". That is definitely new. So let me give an example, if you are a loan defaulter should your child be denied bank credit since he is your offspring? So should we also blame RAOS kids for the kazi kwa vijana saga, Mollases, 100mill collected for hyacinth etc etc???? REALLY? @ MKeiyd so you think your new found candidate is clean and all others are dirty, please spare us. Lets call a spade a spade, the only reason UK is getting all this heat is because he is the candidate most likely to beat RAO PERIOD!


iBelieve a RAO vs UMK at the ballot is a welcome!!...the rest can tag along to their preferred candidate...
Lolest!
#78 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:17:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
I like the arguments around his performance in the ministry of finance where he has been boss. Similar analysis should be given for his performance in other ministries and his parliamentary seat. This is the kind of arguments we need to see not nauseating arguments of how much of a polygamist Uhuru is since old Jomo had 4 wives!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#79 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:23:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Apart from assessing his performance in public service other questions around his candidacy: How will his alleged involvement in the revenge attacks affect national reconciliation? Would a person from the tribes affected feel safe under his leadership? This criteria must be applied for Ruto and Raila too.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
mkeiyd
#80 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:58:38 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
Kratos wrote:
Quite strange, you want to throw accusations at someone yet when asked for evidence "its asking too much from Kenyans". That is definitely new. So let me give an example, if you are a loan defaulter should your child be denied bank credit since he is your offspring? So should we also blame RAOS kids for the kazi kwa vijana saga, Mollases, 100mill collected for hyacinth etc etc???? REALLY? @ MKeiyd so you think your new found candidate is clean and all others are dirty, please spare us. Lets call a spade a spade, the only reason UK is getting all this heat is because he is the candidate most likely to beat RAO PERIOD!


@Kratos, You know Wacucu? Wanugu? We all know they were convicted,does that mean,we the ordinary people "HAVE THE EVIDENCE"? Do you have it? If you do,share it here. If you don't,should we assume they were innocent?

Explain to me how Kenyatta got all those lands? Enlighten me.

Is there a clean politician in the world? HELL NO. RAO is not clean, but he has been in the thick of things fighting for the ordinary Kenyan,he's not afraid of stepping on people's toes for the good of all.

Back to the thread,its about TNA. Tell me what Uhuru has done in his past to demonstrate that he can deliver on his promises of addressing historical injustices and create employment? Convince me how Kenya will be better with a Uhuru president? Convince me how rule of law will be upheld under a Uhuru presidency?

TNA said its time for transformation, not REFORMS. I'm asking you,REALLY? That's scary for me. I don't trust such statements from someone who's been joyriding all along.He's been comfy all thru',a person of status quo.

You say Uhuru is getting "all the heat" coz he's the man to beat RAO? Maybe in your head. I didn't vote for RAO in 2007,i voted for Kibaki,but now its RAO for me.
Why do you think i voted for Kibaki then if now i'm for RAO?

@Kratos,talk about TNA,convince someone that Uhuru is the man and stop thinking people hate him. For some of us, it's all about ISSUES n CHARACTER. The rest belongs to the morons. And they're many i tell you.




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