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Martha Karua 4 President.
Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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bwenyenye wrote:YesuWangu wrote:
Mr. Bwenyenye, all you have said is true and yes I have got responses, but my question is still unanswered. And I really need it answered.
If I may rephrase it, what if Kenya had been friendly to China long ago, soon after independence? Has Kenya belatedly recognised it is better off with China than with the West? Has Kenya just recently noticed it burnt its fingers with the West?
Of course answers to these questions will breed more questions.
In the 1960's there was a global battle for leadership. The Germans and Russians had been beaten by the allies in the 2nd World War. By any means, German technology was and has remained far more superior than those of the West. The West won the propaganda war and castigated the East and created the 'Cold War'. Back then, Kenya was just emerging from the British Shackles. One of the basic conditionalities for self rule was the preservation of British Interests in Kenya. We could not get out as we had no systems of our own at the time. By the time we realised, we were in too much debt. I know, some good Kenyans saw this and tried to bring in the east. Some of my people even went to study medicine in Russia on a grant. Due to the sanctions that China and the East were getting back then, they could not manage to fight head to head for countries like Kenya and so the thing fizzled out. They set their systems right and now, their savings are running America which is in very very heavy debt. So Kenya could not have risked going West at that time. We would have suffered many coups like happened with other countries. I think it was a wise move then as stability was what we needed most.I do not think we would have been any better that we are today if we had gone west! Infact, I think we would have been worse off. Again, back then, there were not many conditionalites on grants up till the 1990s. As things have gotten worse in the West, their aid related conditionalities have worsened with them now looking at economic gains of their companies at the expense of yours in the name of 'globalization'. And so, perhaps Kenya has played its cards well. Mr. Bwenyenye, but Kenya already had stability. The top contenders of the presidency were showing decorum and maturity (something in dire lack these days) waiting for their colleagues to be released from jail, even refusing to be presidents without their colleagues, quite unheard of in Africa. Some died paupers because of their beliefs.....coups at that point in time was probable but not possible. Then when Kenya got its president and freedom, it chose to continue British rule almost through proxy, safeguarding British intrests, continuing British methods and systems, mutating and adapting these methods as need arose ......I think a mistake was done in the past. We are only trying to rectify it now. We dont have to be shy about noting Kenya made a mistake. Kenya could have created new systems and did not have to rely on Britain for anything, it had the brain power which it misused. Kenya could have been better had it not relied on the west, as its leaders thought then. That is what I am trying to say. And I dont mean it should have then relied on the east. Or what do you think?
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/26/2008 Posts: 319
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@YesuWangu, you mention something I have always noted with great concern. Look for example at the Delamere land - when was it paid for? How? Check the Mau Narok land which is now stirring emotions - masai feel it was taken from them by mkoloni and should have been returned to them.
Nothing was done by the so called founding father. The true heroes died poor while some were eliminated for being outspoken about land grabbing and the excesses of the then 'independent' gava which simply mirrored the ways of the white colonial master.
what was this thread about again? Oh! Martha! She's the only one who had declared her interest who I would actually consider voting for.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/17/2009 Posts: 201
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Karua can be a good president but note in kenya u must be a person of building bridges otherwise she will have a tough time with MPIGs, and MPIGs will work to her down fall. She must learn to relate to commom wanjiku Karua handlers needs to have know this by now. consider this UK is considered to be more of a pro-poor in mt Kenya than Karua yet karua ni maskini comared to UK. Karua can easily win presidential polls in Wazua but and for those who considers themselves educated like my collegues in Wazua but for the masses????????
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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bwenyenye wrote:In the 1960's there was a global battle for leadership. The Germans and Russians had been beaten by the allies in the 2nd World War. By any means, German technology was and has remained far more superior than those of the West. The West won the propaganda war and castigated the East and created the 'Cold War'. Back then, Kenya was just emerging from the British Shackles. One of the basic conditionalities for self rule was the preservation of British Interests in Kenya. . Correction-Russia did not lose the war. They were part of the allies under Stalin. That's why they have veto powers in UNSC. Germany is part of the west. Nice flow of thoughts though.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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@Lolest! Noted. But realise that you are saying what IS today. Germany was in WW2 fighting against the current West i.e Britain and America. It joined hands with them after this to be part of the West. By then, ity had been hammered to a pulp. You are right, Russia, though initialy thought to favour Germany, chose to look ( fight) the other way during the war. If it had fought alongside the Germans, the war would have been catastrophic. Infact, it is said that the Germans lost coz the Russians turned their back on them and instead fought alongside the Allies. Question is, did it gain much from the allies? I really wish we were discussing the African struggle in this detail. Look at us! We are so 'western' ABK!!! You know. more like, the Abgusii had agreat fall out with the Luhyia in 1697. The then Omwani had to marry a girl from the Taita in August 1704 so as to create a new alliance that ensur ehis people peace!! I Think Therefore I Am
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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bwenyenye wrote:YesuWangu wrote:
Mr. Bwenyenye, all you have said is true and yes I have got responses, but my question is still unanswered. And I really need it answered.
If I may rephrase it, what if Kenya had been friendly to China long ago, soon after independence? Has Kenya belatedly recognised it is better off with China than with the West? Has Kenya just recently noticed it burnt its fingers with the West?
Of course answers to these questions will breed more questions.
In the 1960's there was a global battle for leadership. The Germans and Russians had been beaten by the allies in the 2nd World War. By any means, German technology was and has remained far more superior than those of the West. The West won the propaganda war and castigated the East and created the 'Cold War'. Back then, Kenya was just emerging from the British Shackles. One of the basic conditionalities for self rule was the preservation of British Interests in Kenya. We could not get out as we had no systems of our own at the time. By the time we realised, we were in too much debt. I know, some good Kenyans saw this and tried to bring in the east. Some of my people even went to study medicine in Russia on a grant. Due to the sanctions that China and the East were getting back then, they could not manage to fight head to head for countries like Kenya and so the thing fizzled out. They set their systems right and now, their savings are running America which is in very very heavy debt. So Kenya could not have risked going West at that time. We would have suffered many coups like happened with other countries. I think it was a wise move then as stability was what we needed most.I do not think we would have been any better that we are today if we had gone west! Infact, I think we would have been worse off. Again, back then, there were not many conditionalites on grants up till the 1990s. As things have gotten worse in the West, their aid related conditionalities have worsened with them now looking at economic gains of their companies at the expense of yours in the name of 'globalization'. And so, perhaps Kenya has played its cards well. Wrong!!!!! In second world war; Russia was on the side as Britain and France!! The three were fighting the Germans. That's how Germany ended up being split to pieces after losing the war. BTW: the highest score I got in history was 32%... and it was because I cheated! Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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bwenyenye wrote:@Lolest!
Noted. But realise that you are saying what IS today. Germany was in WW2 fighting against the current West i.e Britain and America. It joined hands with them after this to be part of the West. By then, ity had been hammered to a pulp.
You are right, Russia, though initialy thought to favour Germany, chose to look ( fight) the other way during the war. If it had fought alongside the Germans, the war would have been catastrophic. Infact, it is said that the Germans lost coz the Russians turned their back on them and instead fought alongside the Allies. Question is, did it gain much from the allies?
I really wish we were discussing the African struggle in this detail. Look at us! We are so 'western' ABK!!! You know. more like, the Abgusii had agreat fall out with the Luhyia in 1697. The then Omwani had to marry a girl from the Taita in August 1704 so as to create a new alliance that ensur ehis people peace!! Ai...Yawa!! Your history.... America is NOT part of "The West", even though it is is the western side of the eurocentric globe. "The West" is a short form of Western Europe... and America is obviously not in Europe. Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/13/2010 Posts: 869 Location: Nairobi
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Back to the issue, i would vote for Martha for now. From what we have, she is the closest to what i want from a President. ....above all, to stand.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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@MsKenya, Me too.Does she have a platform (social site perhaps?) where we can kick of early?... Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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Njung'e wrote:@MsKenya,
Me too.Does she have a platform (social site perhaps?) where we can kick of early?... She is in facebook,twitter and I think she has a site.She usually engages the public on myriad of issues on those accounts. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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