Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:streetwise wrote:When you are busy talking about founder member visit one of thier branches and see the line of people opening accounts, buying shares and asking about taking a loan.
My only concern when the beocme a bank they will move their interest rates from 11.9% to 24% like Equity. Or will there be a deal for founder members ??? Question is, will the anticipated benefits accrue to all members proportionally or will they benefit founder members more?? In any deal, I would rather we make 10 million and you give my 5 million as opposed to "us" making 100 million and you give me 1 million! Get my point?? The total doesn't benefit me if I am up for the mother of all shafting!!! Let them clear this "founder members" cloud in a binding manner. How hard can that be? ***Am thinking like an investor*** I dont understand why you think your 10K today should earn more or equal to the 10K of Mr farmer who brought this thing from Murang'a to the city. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:streetwise wrote:When you are busy talking about founder member visit one of thier branches and see the line of people opening accounts, buying shares and asking about taking a loan.
My only concern when the beocme a bank they will move their interest rates from 11.9% to 24% like Equity. Or will there be a deal for founder members ??? Question is, will the anticipated benefits accrue to all members proportionally or will they benefit founder members more?? In any deal, I would rather we make 10 million and you give my 5 million as opposed to "us" making 100 million and you give me 1 million! Get my point?? The total doesn't benefit me if I am up for the mother of all shafting!!! Let them clear this "founder members" cloud in a binding manner. How hard can that be? ***Am thinking like an investor*** I dont understand why you think your 10K today should earn more or equal to the 10K of Mr farmer who brought this thing from Murang'a to the city. Have you been following this discussion??? No one has said that today's 10k should earn more than Mr. Farmer's. And I have complained in other threads about people making up stories and "facts" and using them as a basis of their argument. Is there an epidemic??? The shares should be treated equally!! And in cases where some shares are more equal than others, this should not be left to guess work. Put it in black and white!!! "What about all the years Mr. Farmer has held this share?" you may ask. "What about all the the 8 - 10% annual dividends he has been earning all those years?" I may ask in reply!!! And Mr. Farmer will become rich because the new money will help transform the Sacco to a bank which will be eventually listed. Mr. Farmer and crew are not doing anyone a favour. If they could, they would have converted the Sacco to a Bank and listed it without ever inviting any of us to the party! Make no mistake!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:streetwise wrote:When you are busy talking about founder member visit one of thier branches and see the line of people opening accounts, buying shares and asking about taking a loan.
My only concern when the beocme a bank they will move their interest rates from 11.9% to 24% like Equity. Or will there be a deal for founder members ??? Question is, will the anticipated benefits accrue to all members proportionally or will they benefit founder members more?? In any deal, I would rather we make 10 million and you give my 5 million as opposed to "us" making 100 million and you give me 1 million! Get my point?? The total doesn't benefit me if I am up for the mother of all shafting!!! Let them clear this "founder members" cloud in a binding manner. How hard can that be? ***Am thinking like an investor*** I dont understand why you think your 10K today should earn more or equal to the 10K of Mr farmer who brought this thing from Murang'a to the city. Have you been following this discussion??? No one has said that today's 10k should earn more than Mr. Farmer's. And I have complained in other threads about people making up stories and "facts" and using them as a basis of their argument. Is there an epidemic??? The shares should be treated equally!! And in cases where some shares are more equal than others, this should not be left to guess work. Put it in black and white!!! "What about all the years Mr. Farmer has held this share?" you may ask. "What about all the the 8 - 10% annual dividends he has been earning all those years?" I may ask in reply!!! And Mr. Farmer will become rich because the new money will help transform the Sacco to a bank which will be eventually listed. Mr. Farmer and crew are not doing anyone a favour. If they could, they would have converted the Sacco to a Bank and listed it without ever inviting any of us to the party! Make no mistake!! Yes i've been following you ranting around but i see you missed some post on this thread Quote:................... There was a bonus issue for shareholders from 2009 backwards. These were the shareholders who held shares before the opening of the bond (Notice that most Saccos have a common bond, e.g. A Sacco for government employees, Another for Company XYZ and such) to allow all Kenyans to join Unaitas. The shareholders who held the shares before the opening of the bond must have asked this question, We have built this organization to where it has come, now that we are opening the bond so that everyone who comes gains from the good foundation we have toiled to lay down, what is in it for us? And I guess in appreciation, of their pioneering spirit, they were given a bonus. Do they expect another bonus? I’d say, certainly not. ......................... "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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If you toil to start and run a business then at one point you agree to sell me 70% of your business - exchange your shares for my money (which by the way I also toiled for) - don't bring me founder member crap!! You now own 30% of the business and I own 70%. I don't really care if you used to work a 100 hours a week when you were starting the business. That is why you didn't give me the 70% to me for free. I paid for it! Hapana leta emotions kwa biashara!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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@murchr - Do yourself a favour and email Prof. Githu Muigai and Dr. Willy Mutunga and ask them if statements made on twitter and in wazua by a hello are legally binding!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:If you toil to start and run a business then at one point you agree to sell me 70% of your business - exchange your shares for my money (which by the way I also toiled for) - don't bring me founder member crap!! You now own 30% of the business and I own 70%. I don't really care if you used to work a 100 hours a week when you were starting the business. That is why you didn't give me the 70% to me for free. I paid for it! Hapana leta emotions kwa biashara!!! Wewe ndio unaleta emotions you either buy or keep off. Do your risk assessment and gauge your risk appetite...the decision is finally yours "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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At this rate, @guka will start refusing to pay for tea in restaurants because he is the founder member of the cow that produced the milk that was used to cook the tea! Na maziwa aliuza!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:@murchr - Do yourself a favour and email Prof. Githu Muigai and Dr. Willy Mutunga and ask them if statements made on twitter and in wazua by a hello are legally binding!!! Nothing from twitter.....hio yote iko kwa hii thread. I've told you i've read it all.. And as i have said, wenye risk appetite ndio ucheza huu mchezo wa OTC. You may wait for it to list at the NSE so that you buy ...its still your choice "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:If you toil to start and run a business then at one point you agree to sell me 70% of your business - exchange your shares for my money (which by the way I also toiled for) - don't bring me founder member crap!! You now own 30% of the business and I own 70%. I don't really care if you used to work a 100 hours a week when you were starting the business. That is why you didn't give me the 70% to me for free. I paid for it! Hapana leta emotions kwa biashara!!! Wewe ndio unaleta emotions you either buy or keep off. Do your risk assessment and gauge your risk appetite...the decision is finally yours No emotions. We are saying, if Unaitas is not planning to dish out more bonuses selectively, let them legally bind themselves. Twitter na kufungua accounts wazua haisaidii!!! In business every foreseeable thing is put explicitly (in the contract/agreement). What happens if you deliver late, don't deliver, deliver substandard goods, pay late etc. Sio kuambiana kwa twitter na WhatsApp! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:@murchr - Do yourself a favour and email Prof. Githu Muigai and Dr. Willy Mutunga and ask them if statements made on twitter and in wazua by a hello are legally binding!!! Nothing from twitter..... hio yote iko kwa hii thread. I've told you i've read it all.. And as i have said, wenye risk appetite ndio ucheza huu mchezo wa OTC. You may wait for it to list at the NSE so that you buy ...its still your choice Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:If you toil to start and run a business then at one point you agree to sell me 70% of your business - exchange your shares for my money (which by the way I also toiled for) - don't bring me founder member crap!! You now own 30% of the business and I own 70%. I don't really care if you used to work a 100 hours a week when you were starting the business. That is why you didn't give me the 70% to me for free. I paid for it! Hapana leta emotions kwa biashara!!! Wewe ndio unaleta emotions you either buy or keep off. Do your risk assessment and gauge your risk appetite...the decision is finally yours No emotions. We are saying, if Unaitas is not planning to dish out more bonuses selectively, let them legally bind themselves. Twitter na kufungua accounts wazua haisaidii!!! In business every foreseeable thing is put explicitly (in the contract/agreement). What happens if you deliver late, don't deliver, deliver substandard goods, pay late etc. Sio kuambiana kwa twitter na WhatsApp! Opening accounts to explain a position is noble to say the list. That's a proposition that can be addressed by the board on in an AGM. I dont think all other saccos have these clause in a contract either. Thats why i say hii ni ya risk takers. Hio ikiwa moja, if you can't gauge it. Besides this was a proposition that was forwarded by those tea farmers before the club stopped being exclusively theirs. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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@Murchr - OTC is not a jungle. Even investment clubs by wamama in the village have a "constitution"/agreement on what can and cannot be done and the processes. The risk should be mostly business risk not ambiguous modus operandi!!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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murchr wrote:That's a proposition that can be addressed by the board on in an AGM. BGL wrote:They have annual delegates meetings not annual general meetings. Guess who the delegates are? gatoho wrote:I asked them how I become a delegate and got no answer Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:@Murchr - OTC is not a jungle. Even investment clubs by wamama in the village have a "constitution"/agreement on what can and cannot be done and the processes. The risk should be mostly business risk not ambiguous modus operandi!!!! The day we'll open up the investment club i belong to, I will ask for a share split and bonus because my time and ideas cannot be cannot be valued....so i'll expect the highest return. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,567
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murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:@Murchr - OTC is not a jungle. Even investment clubs by wamama in the village have a "constitution"/agreement on what can and cannot be done and the processes. The risk should be mostly business risk not ambiguous modus operandi!!!! The day we'll open up the investment club i belong to, I will ask for a share split and bonus because my time and ideas cannot be cannot be valued....so i'll expect the highest return. Post# 670MaichBlack wrote:If these guys are straight forward, they should have issued the bonus shares before inviting the public. Hapa iko shida. The worst might never materialize but the conditions are there for it to happen. If they can reward "founder members" four years later, what makes you think they can't do it again 6 years later, 8 years later..... What makes you think 4 years is the cut off? And if they had not informed you about the "pending" bonus shares when you got in, what else do you think they have not told you. This loophole MUST be sealed. And not on twitter!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:@Murchr - OTC is not a jungle. Even investment clubs by wamama in the village have a "constitution"/agreement on what can and cannot be done and the processes. The risk should be mostly business risk not ambiguous modus operandi!!!! The day we'll open up the investment club i belong to, I will ask for a share split and bonus because my time and ideas cannot be cannot be valued....so i'll expect the highest return. Post# 670MaichBlack wrote:If these guys are straight forward, they should have issued the bonus shares before inviting the public. Hapa iko shida. The worst might never materialize but the conditions are there for it to happen. If they can reward "founder members" four years later, what makes you think they can't do it again 6 years later, 8 years later..... What makes you think 4 years is the cut off? And if they had not informed you about the "pending" bonus shares when you got in, what else do you think they have not told you. This loophole MUST be sealed. And not on twitter!!! Quote:The shareholders who held the shares before the opening of the bond (2009) must have asked this question, We have built this organization to where it has come, now that we are opening the bond so that everyone who comes gains from the good foundation we have toiled to lay down, what is in it for us? And I guess in appreciation, of their pioneering spirit, they were given a bonus. Do they expect another bonus? I’d say, certainly not. ......... Its 2015 there have been no other mention of another bonus apart from here in wazua "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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DUNGA wrote:@ MaichBlack
My view is that the Unitas matter is just hot air, other than good marketing, branding and a colorful website, there is nothing so outstanding to warrant the "next big thing tag". Visit a branch and you realize that they are just a traditional cooperative.
A few years back,Family Bank was cheered as the next Equity and the people who bought are still waiting.
Note that the share capital of Unitas has been increasing faster than the loan book, i.e people buying shares faster than the underlying business of loans ( Review the financials for 3 yrs and make your conclusion). My experience is that when you are so many you rarely make money.
Finally the capital is locked until they transform and do an IPO ( If it will ever happen), my view is that there are better opportunities e.g Safaricom investments sacco where you make a decent return now and not hope for transformation and listing . valid points. There might not be another equity ever. the model worked because of favorable conditions then
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
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Now that you mentioned Family bank, good to take note that Family Bank is the fasted growing bank currently.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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streetwise wrote:Now that you mentioned Family bank, good to take note that Family Bank is the fasted growing bank currently.
and has had several bonuses since. and share price appreciation. Unaitas doesn't have to be the next equity for us to make money. it just needs to be a successful bank and list! There's so much negative energy here. those who cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen! The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/14/2011 Posts: 857 Location: nairobi
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New branch coming up in Naivasha. Unaitas is on a roll
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