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Teachers Strike!!!
tycho
#301 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 3:09:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
rryyzz wrote:
Wendz wrote:
alma wrote:
Let us not confuse issues here.

The issue is not whether or not a teacher deserves commutter allowance or not. Or if he goes to class drunk, or if you feel that you wished you had their job so you can work less hours.

The issue is whether or not the Gov't of Kenya has a signed contract with said teacher's union.

If it does, then it has no choice but to pay up. Otherwise, it will send signals to the rest of the world that the Kenyan gov't doesn't pay its bills.

If you say that this was a bad deal, please inform us on why you think the Anglo-leasing deal is better since the Gov't of Kenya is still paying for it.


As to how much, when, why teachers are being given so much, I would suggest you do yourself a favour and join a better union.

The Mpigs have one and it seems the teachers have one too.

So the person I will listen to is the one who can explain to me why a gov't should be taken seriously when it refuses to honour a contract it signed.


The government is not refusing to pay. it is only asking for time. and well, i know it has asked for time many more times but this is a new government.... plus, it has a valid point. if you pay increased house allowance for teachers, what do you then do with the rest of the civil servant. From what i know, it has agreed to pay the other allowances.

Plus, above all, can these teachers have performance contracts and can the future salary be based on performance and not strikes and negotiated agreements? This is the only way we can have an effective education system. You do not perform, you pave way for the next teacher on line. Sorry, but it happens to all of us.



my observation has been that Unions, have never been comfortable with having their members on performance contracts. You mention performance contracts and they are on a war path.


Performance contracts are inherently anti union. They target individuals.

How can the government find time? Considering time has value, there must be activities that are 'market oriented'.

A mutual solution has to be designed, not 'negotiated'.


InnovateGuy
#302 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 3:33:27 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2012
Posts: 1,110
alma wrote:
Let us not confuse issues here.

The issue is not whether or not a teacher deserves commutter allowance or not. Or if he goes to class drunk, or if you feel that you wished you had their job so you can work less hours.

The issue is whether or not the Gov't of Kenya has a signed contract with said teacher's union.

If it does, then it has no choice but to pay up. Otherwise, it will send signals to the rest of the world that the Kenyan gov't doesn't pay its bills.

If you say that this was a bad deal, please inform us on why you think the Anglo-leasing deal is better since the Gov't of Kenya is still paying for it.

As to how much, when, why teachers are being given so much, I would suggest you do yourself a favour and join a better union.

The Mpigs have one and it seems the teachers have one too.

So the person I will listen to is the one who can explain to me why a gov't should be taken seriously when it refuses to honour a contract it signed.


It is unfortunate that the government of the day signed that agreement in the first place. It is also unfortunate that promissory notes were honoured to a non-existent company (Anglo-leasing). Again, it is regrettable that
SRC gave in to the demands by MPs.

Nevertheless,we should not lose sight of the big picture here. The picture is that once the government honours that deal, nurses, doctors, and other civil servants will also come in to demand what the government gives to the teachers. This may not be bad - from a populist perspective because everyone will have a high pay. But, what will this do to the government's wage bill? Definitely, it will be up there.

Do not lose sight of the fact that a huge % of the current budget is being used to fund recurrent expenditures. This means that cash which would otherwise go into development projects, will be used to pay salaries. Is this acceptable in the face of the government debt which exceeds 1 trillion?

Again, the private sector the private sector will be forced to raise their wages to attract and retain talent. In effect, the cost of production will go up. Is this acceptable, considering the fact that we need our goods to be competitive?

I will not even tackle inflation and productivity.

It's good that you support performance contracting. My opinion is that salary increase should be pegged on performance and productivity.
Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
McReggae
#303 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 3:39:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
People seem to be confusing issues.....if teachers ain't doing their job, that a different issue and their employer should design how to deal with it........as long all the teachers in Kenya are not going to work and somebody is still fixed with CORD.....you've lost it.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
alma
#304 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 3:56:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
InnovateGuy wrote:
alma wrote:
Let us not confuse issues here.

The issue is not whether or not a teacher deserves commutter allowance or not. Or if he goes to class drunk, or if you feel that you wished you had their job so you can work less hours.

The issue is whether or not the Gov't of Kenya has a signed contract with said teacher's union.

If it does, then it has no choice but to pay up. Otherwise, it will send signals to the rest of the world that the Kenyan gov't doesn't pay its bills.

If you say that this was a bad deal, please inform us on why you think the Anglo-leasing deal is better since the Gov't of Kenya is still paying for it.

As to how much, when, why teachers are being given so much, I would suggest you do yourself a favour and join a better union.

The Mpigs have one and it seems the teachers have one too.

So the person I will listen to is the one who can explain to me why a gov't should be taken seriously when it refuses to honour a contract it signed.


It is unfortunate that the government of the day signed that agreement in the first place. It is also unfortunate that promissory notes were honoured to a non-existent company (Anglo-leasing). Again, it is regrettable that
SRC gave in to the demands by MPs.

Nevertheless,we should not lose sight of the big picture here. The picture is that once the government honours that deal, nurses, doctors, and other civil servants will also come in to demand what the government gives to the teachers. This may not be bad - from a populist perspective because everyone will have a high pay. But, what will this do to the government's wage bill? Definitely, it will be up there.

Do not lose sight of the fact that a huge % of the current budget is being used to fund recurrent expenditures. This means that cash which would otherwise go into development projects, will be used to pay salaries. Is this acceptable in the face of the government debt which exceeds 1 trillion?

Again, the private sector the private sector will be forced to raise their wages to attract and retain talent. In effect, the cost of production will go up. Is this acceptable, considering the fact that we need our goods to be competitive?

I will not even tackle inflation and productivity.

It's good that you support performance contracting. My opinion is that salary increase should be pegged on performance and productivity.


Innovate, I have no problem with an employer insisting on something being done to provide better services. Actually I think performance contracts are ok.

I personally think the wage bill is too high. I personally feel that this contract wasn't all that good.

BUT

We are talking about contracts and GOV'T contracts at that.

Its a shame that the gov't of the day(s) have been playing volleyball with this. It's also unfortunate that this happened in the 100 days of Jubilee and all that yada yada yada.

BUT

Gov't must pay its contracts.

Failure of any gov't to pay any form of contracts is a slippery slope you don't want to get into.

That is why

Pattni was paid, anglo-leasing is being paid, british gov't is still being paid, who knows what other horrible contracts this gov't and other before it have been paying for.

it's the principle at hand here. And to be honest, whoever started this "negotiations" by thumbing his nose in the teachers faces is the cause of this problem we have.

Even Moi used to go slowly in such matters.

but I guess the euphoria of laptops is making some in gov't think they are infallible.

Firing 200000 people will take this country in places we have never seen. Sure jubilee will look strong, powerful and almighty, BUT.

Let's be wise a bit. Moi talked, Kibaki talked. Even Uhuru should talk. These are Kenyans too and only a stupid man can call teachers CORD as if teachers in nyeri belong to cord.

We respect teachers, I'm sure they will throw a bone back. We call them cord, they hate our new gov't, we shall never talk etc etc and expect failure in the first 100 days.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Museveni
#305 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 4:24:33 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/16/2012
Posts: 661
See..



Live and learn; and don’t forget, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
For Sport
#306 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 4:25:32 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
Govt now orders closure of public primary schools indefinitely and suspends teachers salaries.
Total failure
theman192000
#307 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 4:39:46 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/11/2008
Posts: 401
Its time for the government to play hardball.

They say insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Previous governments have given in to the unions leading to the current high wage bill. There is no guarantee that if the government pays the teachers today they will not go on strike tomorrow demanding higher wages. When will it stop?

I say go the Margaret Thatcher way and dismantle the unions.
For Sport
#308 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 4:51:08 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
theman192000 wrote:
Its time for the government to play hardball.

They say insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Previous governments have given in to the unions leading to the current high wage bill. There is no guarantee that if the government pays the teachers today they will not go on strike tomorrow demanding higher wages. When will it stop?

I say go the Margaret Thatcher way and dismantle the unions.

Why are MPs a special class of people to whom these same rules do not apply?
thuks
#309 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 4:57:35 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
For Sport wrote:
theman192000 wrote:
Its time for the government to play hardball.

They say insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Previous governments have given in to the unions leading to the current high wage bill. There is no guarantee that if the government pays the teachers today they will not go on strike tomorrow demanding higher wages. When will it stop?

I say go the Margaret Thatcher way and dismantle the unions.

Why are MPs a special class of people to whom these same rules do not apply?


These few characters can hold the country for ransom.
I care!
simonkabz
#310 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 5:06:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Funga kabisa mpaka next year. We must learn the hard way. If gava gives in, this country is finished. Teachers form the largest number of govt employees. They must be used as an example to forestall any future INSENSITIVE industrial action. I want my country back!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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