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I'm an Athi River Mining shareholder
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Fundaah
#21 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:28:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
VituVingiSana wrote:
@wendz @fundaah

I am a shareholder.

No double standards...

1) Employees of ARM should be fired if they are stealing from ARM. They cant be fired by ARM for stealing from GoK. It does not sound right but legally ARM would have a problem with COTU & unions... Unions dont let ARM fire employees even if they steal unless a 'package' is negotiated.

2) Of course, the MD has to know what is happening... BUT the point is being personalized from ARM to MD... The initial question/accusation was ARM was doing it... and it is not...

3) Unlike the MD for ARM (who owns 40%+ of ARM) the minister does not have any ownership of the ministries.

4) The MD can be removed by shareholders for under-performance by the Board &/or shareholders. kibaki never fires corrupt ministers. He appoints them too... Using the logic... shouldnt kibaki resign? (Erm, I think he should have...)



So VVS ...you are totally defending this corrupt deal where tghe MD is aware that employees are stealing from the public (don't say Govt... govt doesnt pay taxes )....and next time you say Ruto Raila and Kibaki are corrupt ...think twice....You mean an employer cant fire an employee involved in criminal activity because of Trade Unions...come on VVS .I respect your contributions here but this one... !! dont let me down
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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VituVingiSana
#22 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:38:10 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,349
Location: Nairobi
@fundaah - BS... Who said MD knew about this?
Please DO NOT misquote me...

1) ruto, raila & kibaki started the fertilizer subsidy program. I was dead set against it. Subsidies always do harm in the long-run. You can quote me on this...

2) I am certain the MD was not aware of the theft by the employees... Do you have information I do not?

3) I am NOT defending any wrongdoing on ARM or MD's part if they are guilty... I am saying the guilty parties are GoK (for stupid subsidy program), GoK emplyees (via ministries, NCPB, etc) and the few ARM employees who stole...

4) I am categorically saying that ruto & kibaki (& cronies/friends) have benefited from corruption whether through YK92 or other sweetheart deals.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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mukiha
#23 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:39:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Chaka wrote:
This is really pathetic...there are just too many scandals in this country due to the love of money which is the root of all evil.
@VVS ,
If so, why has the ARM MD not come out to set the record straight ?


Because the story was first aired last night! He hasn't had time to respond yet. Let's wait and see this evening.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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sparkly
#24 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:39:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Why did the government subsidize imported mbolea and not the local one. Simple, its because thats how the fat cats get to eat, importing the mbolea and selling to gov. Heck, if i was ARM producing the ferts, employing kenyans, paying taxes i would do the same. Those nyefing public money should climb down from their high moral pedestals.
Life is short. Live passionately.
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Horton
#25 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:52:08 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
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BGL
#26 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:43:01 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 1,223
In the past few hours since the story aired in our media houses a lot of info is already in the public domain and more will become available in electronic and print. Only then, it will become clear whether ARM is clean or not.
However, being a shareholder *VVS* does not give you the powers to take us to the era of Jim crow. Please make your contributions which we highly appreciate BUT this systemic & to my opinion rather excessive attacks on other contributors only breeds a deterrence effect.... whatever someone does for a living should not come up in this discussion...... In modern societies people learn to tolerate others even when they do not agree with them just as wazua lets us post articles outside of the investment domain. I rest my case as i switch to the Barcelona vs Stuttgart match.
History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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VituVingiSana
#27 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:01:43 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,349
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
Chaka wrote:
This is really pathetic...there are just too many scandals in this country due to the love of money which is the root of all evil.
@VVS ,
If so, why has the ARM MD not come out to set the record straight ?


Because the story was first aired last night! He hasn't had time to respond yet. Let's wait and see this evening.

I have it on excellent authority that the MD was in London on a business trip on Monday & Tuesday.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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VituVingiSana
#28 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:06:30 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,349
Location: Nairobi
BGL wrote:

However, being a shareholder *VVS* does not give


1) Jim Crow ni nani? [I live in KENYA...]

2) Why are the idiots who approved the stupid subsidy program going free? I even wrote that the maize subsidy is a get rich quick scam (scheme) for kibaki, ruto & friends... And it was...

Why do u think no-one of real importance was fired?
Why do u think PNU supported ruto during the censure motion?

Wizi...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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tony stark
#29 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:36:09 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
I totally agree with VVS the buying of fertilizers from foreign farms and not supporting local firms is perverse. That said i dont think we should let the systemic undermining of local firms, farmers and artisan by the goverment to continue. The buying and importing of goods that can be sourced locally at the same price and higher quality should not be allowed. Who gains when the goverment sources goods from china when they are locally available?? This requires criminal investigations.

I cant comment about the presence of fake cheap fertilizers at the ARM factory without further information. I shall side with VVS and give ARM the benefit of doubt. (My position on Goverment is guilty until proven innocent)
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VituVingiSana
#30 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:19:23 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,349
Location: Nairobi
Friends, Investors, Wanaraia, Wazalendo:

When has our government+controlled firms (since kenyatta) ever come out smelling like roses?

Recently we had:

- KCB & NBK almost collapsed
- KPC (triton. Kenol won a judgment against KPC)
- KAA (qatari, onejetone)
- Grand Regency sale (no public auction)
- Milk
- Maize (I publicly derided this scheme. I knew it wud be misused)

NEED I SAY MORE?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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