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Punguza Mizigo Bill
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limanika
#21 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:29:23 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
FRM2011 wrote:
Is @maka still active on wazua ?

Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.

The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.

It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.


We still dont have a substantive referendum law, hence will have to rely on the (quite) deficient provisions in the katiba. That means, once the signatures are verified by IEBC, the bill can't be amended, and would have to go all the way. If you change any clause then you have to go back to the 1m who supported the initiative and ask them to endorse!

That's where we fault aukot and chebukati. Aukot should have involved more stakeholders during the drafting of the bill. I find it very cunning of him to include sweeteners for MCA's just so they can pass the bill. Its like burying our heads in the sand. Chebukati on the other hand should have refused to take it forward to counties unless we have a substantive law on referendum. Sadly, I don't it will go far
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  | | Edit by user: Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:37 AM | Reason: Not specified
FRM2011
#22 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:39:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
limanika wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
Is @maka still active on wazua ?

Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.

The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.

It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.


We still dont have a substantive referendum law, hence will have to rely on the (quite) deficient provisions in the katiba. That means, once the signatures are verified by IEBC, the bill can't be amended, and would have to go all the way. If you change any clause then you have to go back to the 1m who supported the initiative and ask them to endorse!

That's where we fault aukot and chebukati. Aukot should have involved more stakeholders during the drafting of the bill. I find it very cunning of him to include sweeteners for MCA's just so they can pass the bill. Its like burying our heads in the sand. Chebukati on the other hand should have refused to take it forward to counties unless we have a substantive law on referendum. Sadly, I don't it will go far


Thanks for he clarification. It's a pity really. It seems he doesn't understand this is a political process.

I have seen a legal advisory in ODM circles ( I am still active there). The sweetener to MCAs to replace CDF with ward development fund is not possible legally.

The CDF had to rebrand to NG-CDF to survive post-devolution. Counties can create WDF and some have even started. But not from the national government budget.
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Ngalaka
#23 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 1:22:59 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
limanika wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
Is @maka still active on wazua ?

Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.

The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.

It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.


We still dont have a substantive referendum law, hence will have to rely on the (quite) deficient provisions in the katiba. That means, once the signatures are verified by IEBC, the bill can't be amended, and would have to go all the way. If you change any clause then you have to go back to the 1m who supported the initiative and ask them to endorse!

That's where we fault aukot and chebukati. Aukot should have involved more stakeholders during the drafting of the bill. I find it very cunning of him to include sweeteners for MCA's just so they can pass the bill. Its like burying our heads in the sand. Chebukati on the other hand should have refused to take it forward to counties unless we have a substantive law on referendum. Sadly, I don't it will go far

It will have to be appreciated that there is another effort at referendum that is parallel to Aukot's.
There will have to be some horse trading and rationalization.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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alma1
#24 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:19:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
My theory has come to pass.

Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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mkenyan
#25 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 7:07:29 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,885
FRM2011 wrote:
limanika wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
Is @maka still active on wazua ?

Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.

The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.

It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.


We still dont have a substantive referendum law, hence will have to rely on the (quite) deficient provisions in the katiba. That means, once the signatures are verified by IEBC, the bill can't be amended, and would have to go all the way. If you change any clause then you have to go back to the 1m who supported the initiative and ask them to endorse!

That's where we fault aukot and chebukati. Aukot should have involved more stakeholders during the drafting of the bill. I find it very cunning of him to include sweeteners for MCA's just so they can pass the bill. Its like burying our heads in the sand. Chebukati on the other hand should have refused to take it forward to counties unless we have a substantive law on referendum. Sadly, I don't it will go far


Thanks for he clarification. It's a pity really. It seems he doesn't understand this is a political process.

I have seen a legal advisory in ODM circles ( I am still active there). The sweetener to MCAs to replace CDF with ward development fund is not possible legally.

The CDF had to rebrand to NG-CDF to survive post-devolution. Counties can create WDF and some have even started. But not from the national government budget.

you realise that if the constitution is amended to provide that then it would be very legal? you can't get any more legal that a constitutional provision. who is this mis-advising odm on such?
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limanika
#26 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 8:47:33 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
I think such drastic changes in the system of representation should be more consultative. If you don't consult widely and lobby for political support then you might not go far with this kind of initiative. There are already questions as to whether IEBC is properly constituted to preside over this. The courts might have to decide.
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2012
#27 Posted : Monday, July 22, 2019 7:33:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
It was a very clever move to target the backing of the MCAs. If it's passed by 24 county assemblies, Parliament will have no say in the matter.

BBI will solve it :)
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newfarer
#28 Posted : Monday, July 22, 2019 8:37:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,505
Location: Uganda
it may go through.

https://www.standardmedi...dy-won-referendum-race.

either way we are damned.whether MCA or MPs they will just enrich themselves and their selves.kila mtu achunge mzigo wake.we first need a societal change of attitude to corruption
punda amecheka
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, July 22, 2019 8:40 PM | Reason: Not specified
Lolest!
#29 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2019 8:05:04 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
newfarer wrote:
it may go through.

https://www.standardmedi...dy-won-referendum-race.

either way we are damned.whether MCA or MPs they will just enrich themselves and their selves.kila mtu achunge mzigo wake.we first need a societal change of attitude to corruption

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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limanika
#30 Posted : Tuesday, July 23, 2019 8:32:17 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
newfarer wrote:
it may go through.

https://www.standardmedi...dy-won-referendum-race.

either way we are damned.whether MCA or MPs they will just enrich themselves and their selves.kila mtu achunge mzigo wake.we first need a societal change of attitude to corruption

How can 1.2m signatures be collected and nobody I know signed up? Where was the signing done? I Never heard of a desk in my ward or constituency to sign up. At least for BBI we know they're visiting all counties. And the main issue, how exactly did IEBC verify and confirm that the signatures are valid? By the way, from where I sit, increasing money to counties and creating WDF is not the solution. Infact this will lead to entrenchment of corruption that has already now been devolved from central govt
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 8:38 AM | Reason: Not specified
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