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Cambridge Analytica- Changing face of politics?
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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PeterReborn wrote:alma1 wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Ngalaka wrote:To believe that the so called Cambridge analytica had any significant influence in the way Kenyans voted in 2017 is to be gullible.
Propaganda happened (both ways - for/against and by both main groups) during the electioneering period and has always happened during such times analytica or no analytica.
In the end Kenyans voted largely in the same patterns and along the same lines we all expected them to.
This is also what I can not get my head around, the president has a better view of the county through intelligence briefings than what can be collected online from social media, those briefings are a big advantage an incumbent has especially in ke. I am yet to be convinced that, at the state we are at anyone can get a feel or influence the country, politically through social media. You can continue not believing till hell freezes over. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, this company is being tamed. South Africa got rid of them. The UK is opening their servers. Facebook is loosing billions of dollars in value in days. Only an ostrich could not see the pattern of media information and social media harlots receiving the same info and spreading the same info. The biggest culprits were Nation Newspapers. They might as well have been a PR firm. By the way, where was Alex Chamwada working. He can explain things better I think. Kabisa.I am sure you have seen the harassment that has been melted on the 'whistle blower' Chris for exposing them.Facebook willingly gave out data for over 50m users and then claim that there was no data breach.If they have the capacity to analyse data of over 50m users what about less than 20m voters? Nasa MP's who are always running around looking for yellow yellows should be very worried.  Samson and Delilah just went digital.  Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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alma1 wrote:KulaRaha wrote:[quote=Wakanyugi]
This is not how I have understood CA's role. I saw it more as a data mining company, which I think was how Tycho introduced this thread. Again I could be wrong.
While a political campaign certainly could use data mining to craft messages, it needs behaviour/preference/intention data, the kind that your facebook profile can easily show. My point is, a low tech society like ours has slim pickings in terms of useful data to be mined and don't tell me about Mpesa.
It benefits CA's image to push this myth of all seeing greatness and the fear that goes with it. But let me ask you: if they were so good, won't we have seen attempts by Facebook or Google to buy them out? After all these are the two corporates whose future is most strongly tied to the capacity influence thinking and behavior.
Actually very wrong. And Turnbull, in the secret recording by Channel 4, reveals the much they delivered for the UhuRuto and Jubilee Party campaigns:
“The Kenyatta campaign which we ran in 2013 and 2017,” he starts off.
“And what have you done in Kenya?” poses Channel 4 journalist.
“We have rebranded the entire party twice, written their manifesto, done two rounds of 50,000 or so surveys… Then we’d write all the speeches, and we’d stage the whole thing. So just about every element of his campaign.”https://youtu.be/mpbeOCKZFfQ[/quote] look at the recipients of the national medals and get an understanding of what was going on. Jubilee was created somewhere in the USA. I mean, even speeches? But I doubt if "mnataka nifanye nini" is one of the speeches. Maybe Tycho can write for us a thesis on how to hoodwink Kenyans to think they are thinking independently. Yet, they are being told what to think, who to hate and which lies to accept. Thanks for clarifying. I had another smart reposite all set to go but I see Ngalaka beat me to it (damn!): Anyway, here it is: What did this change? Did the voting patterns change? The outcome that we expected (not hoped for)? If CA had flipped a die-hard NASA voting block like Coast, Western or Nyanza into Jubilees column, beyond anything that could have been achieved by good old fashioned rigging for instance, I would begin to believe their hype. Despite all this, I could even be charitable were it not for a pattern I have observed. Over the past 20 years I have noticed that a Western company or organisation has claimed credit for the results of almost every election ever held in a non developed country. They did it for Russia, before Putin showed them the door, recently for Gambia, Liberia...are you surprised that Kenya has made it into their self glorification column? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:KulaRaha wrote:[quote=Wakanyugi]
This is not how I have understood CA's role. I saw it more as a data mining company, which I think was how Tycho introduced this thread. Again I could be wrong.
While a political campaign certainly could use data mining to craft messages, it needs behaviour/preference/intention data, the kind that your facebook profile can easily show. My point is, a low tech society like ours has slim pickings in terms of useful data to be mined and don't tell me about Mpesa.
It benefits CA's image to push this myth of all seeing greatness and the fear that goes with it. But let me ask you: if they were so good, won't we have seen attempts by Facebook or Google to buy them out? After all these are the two corporates whose future is most strongly tied to the capacity influence thinking and behavior.
Actually very wrong. And Turnbull, in the secret recording by Channel 4, reveals the much they delivered for the UhuRuto and Jubilee Party campaigns:
“The Kenyatta campaign which we ran in 2013 and 2017,” he starts off.
“And what have you done in Kenya?” poses Channel 4 journalist.
“We have rebranded the entire party twice, written their manifesto, done two rounds of 50,000 or so surveys… Then we’d write all the speeches, and we’d stage the whole thing. So just about every element of his campaign.”https://youtu.be/mpbeOCKZFfQ[/quote] look at the recipients of the national medals and get an understanding of what was going on. Jubilee was created somewhere in the USA. I mean, even speeches? But I doubt if "mnataka nifanye nini" is one of the speeches. Maybe Tycho can write for us a thesis on how to hoodwink Kenyans to think they are thinking independently. Yet, they are being told what to think, who to hate and which lies to accept. Thanks for clarifying. I had another smart reposite all set to go but I see Ngalaka beat me to it (damn!): Anyway, here it is: What did this change? Did the voting patterns change? The outcome that we expected (not hoped for)? If CA had flipped a die-hard NASA voting block like Coast, Western or Nyanza into Jubilees column, beyond anything that could have been achieved by good old fashioned rigging for instance, I would begin to believe their hype. Despite all this, I could even be charitable were it not for a pattern I have observed. Over the past 20 years I have noticed that a Western company or organisation has claimed credit for the results of almost every election ever held in a non developed country. They did it for Russia, before Putin showed them the door, recently for Gambia, Liberia...are you surprised that Kenya has made it into their self glorification column? Wakanyugi, do you believe that Uhuru is such a charitable person that he hires white men who have nothing to offer him? Oh, CA, come over, here's my money. I know kenyans don't use Twitter, but here's 1 gazillion dollars to offer services that have absolutely no effect on anything. I know of people who were so scared of saitan that they would have died in the snow just not to see him. Those same people are very confused right now. The daily drip drip of "we want peace", "saitan", were a playbook from one of the first videos from CA. Google it and you shall see that all the problems in Kenya start and end with Saitan. Mlichezwa kama gitaa. Na mkatii. As the rest of the world is trying to figure out how to never have it happen again, in Kenya we are saying we don't have whatsapp. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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lesson: don't bring a knife to a gunfight! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Wakanyugi, the question as to whether CA caused any change in the last elections may be quite tricky because the main opposition was out of the race.
2013? There may be reasons to suspect that such actions of the CA would have made a difference.
But I'd like to ask: Are such actions by the CA powerful enough to affect decisions?
What are the implications of major policy makers to take a position of nudging populations to certain ideas and actions?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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alma1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:KulaRaha wrote:[quote=Wakanyugi]
This is not how I have understood CA's role. I saw it more as a data mining company, which I think was how Tycho introduced this thread. Again I could be wrong.
While a political campaign certainly could use data mining to craft messages, it needs behaviour/preference/intention data, the kind that your facebook profile can easily show. My point is, a low tech society like ours has slim pickings in terms of useful data to be mined and don't tell me about Mpesa.
It benefits CA's image to push this myth of all seeing greatness and the fear that goes with it. But let me ask you: if they were so good, won't we have seen attempts by Facebook or Google to buy them out? After all these are the two corporates whose future is most strongly tied to the capacity influence thinking and behavior.
Actually very wrong. And Turnbull, in the secret recording by Channel 4, reveals the much they delivered for the UhuRuto and Jubilee Party campaigns:
“The Kenyatta campaign which we ran in 2013 and 2017,” he starts off.
“And what have you done in Kenya?” poses Channel 4 journalist.
“We have rebranded the entire party twice, written their manifesto, done two rounds of 50,000 or so surveys… Then we’d write all the speeches, and we’d stage the whole thing. So just about every element of his campaign.”https://youtu.be/mpbeOCKZFfQ[/quote] look at the recipients of the national medals and get an understanding of what was going on. Jubilee was created somewhere in the USA. I mean, even speeches? But I doubt if "mnataka nifanye nini" is one of the speeches. Maybe Tycho can write for us a thesis on how to hoodwink Kenyans to think they are thinking independently. Yet, they are being told what to think, who to hate and which lies to accept. Thanks for clarifying. I had another smart reposite all set to go but I see Ngalaka beat me to it (damn!): Anyway, here it is: What did this change? Did the voting patterns change? The outcome that we expected (not hoped for)? If CA had flipped a die-hard NASA voting block like Coast, Western or Nyanza into Jubilees column, beyond anything that could have been achieved by good old fashioned rigging for instance, I would begin to believe their hype. Despite all this, I could even be charitable were it not for a pattern I have observed. Over the past 20 years I have noticed that a Western company or organisation has claimed credit for the results of almost every election ever held in a non developed country. They did it for Russia, before Putin showed them the door, recently for Gambia, Liberia...are you surprised that Kenya has made it into their self glorification column? Wakanyugi, do you believe that Uhuru is such a charitable person that he hires white men who have nothing to offer him? Oh, CA, come over, here's my money. I know kenyans don't use Twitter, but here's 1 gazillion dollars to offer services that have absolutely no effect on anything. I know of people who were so scared of saitan that they would have died in the snow just not to see him. Those same people are very confused right now. The daily drip drip of "we want peace", "saitan", were a playbook from one of the first videos from CA. Google it and you shall see that all the problems in Kenya start and end with Saitan. Mlichezwa kama gitaa. Na mkatii. As the rest of the world is trying to figure out how to never have it happen again, in Kenya we are saying we don't have whatsapp. I actually believe Jubilee were sold fake goods. But that seems par for the political crowd. NASA paid millions to some Canadian and Ghanian cons who claimed they could somehow 'protect the vote.' I laughed later when my Ghanian friend told me there was never anything like protecting the vote in Ghana, it was simply a catchy election slogan that happened to arrive at the same time as the people were getting fed up with the lot in power anyway. Trying to convince me that CA was the factor that won the election for Jubilee is a major stretch, even if we were somehow to ignore just how hard NASA worked to beat themselves; ie, their sheer incompetence all round; the decision to front a previously rejected candidate; the inept 'non-campaign' that followed or even the foolish decision to boycott an election in the hope that somehow this would...what? Shame their opponents into throwing in the towel?  I have never understood that one If this conversation was about 2013, I could give you the benefit of the doubt. But NASA actually started losing the 2017 election way back in 2015/16 if not before - remember when Jubilee consolidated and beat them again at registering voters? CA was not in the picture then were they? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, the question as to whether CA caused any change in the last elections may be quite tricky because the main opposition was out of the race.
2013? There may be reasons to suspect that such actions of the CA would have made a difference.
But I'd like to ask: Are such actions by the CA powerful enough to affect decisions?
What are the implications of major policy makers to take a position of nudging populations to certain ideas and actions? Good points Tycho. This is where scholarship may be useful in debunking some myths that have grown to assume Papal infallibility. One of them is that elections are decided by flipping people who were going to vote one way into voting another. Not true, not even in America, where we are made to believe people vote on issues. Elections are decided by people voting their interests, those who feel their interests are not well represented tend to stay home. Whether these interests align with tribe, clans, castes, social classes etc is besides the point. The winner is the one who can convince the largest number that he represents their interest or that the other guy is a threat to those interests - something you do by simple campaigning or old fashioned advertising. Social media is a cheaper platform for delivering these messages but that is about it. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
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Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:KulaRaha wrote:[quote=Wakanyugi]
This is not how I have understood CA's role. I saw it more as a data mining company, which I think was how Tycho introduced this thread. Again I could be wrong.
While a political campaign certainly could use data mining to craft messages, it needs behaviour/preference/intention data, the kind that your facebook profile can easily show. My point is, a low tech society like ours has slim pickings in terms of useful data to be mined and don't tell me about Mpesa.
It benefits CA's image to push this myth of all seeing greatness and the fear that goes with it. But let me ask you: if they were so good, won't we have seen attempts by Facebook or Google to buy them out? After all these are the two corporates whose future is most strongly tied to the capacity influence thinking and behavior.
Actually very wrong. And Turnbull, in the secret recording by Channel 4, reveals the much they delivered for the UhuRuto and Jubilee Party campaigns:
“The Kenyatta campaign which we ran in 2013 and 2017,” he starts off.
“And what have you done in Kenya?” poses Channel 4 journalist.
“We have rebranded the entire party twice, written their manifesto, done two rounds of 50,000 or so surveys… Then we’d write all the speeches, and we’d stage the whole thing. So just about every element of his campaign.”https://youtu.be/mpbeOCKZFfQ[/quote] look at the recipients of the national medals and get an understanding of what was going on. Jubilee was created somewhere in the USA. I mean, even speeches? But I doubt if "mnataka nifanye nini" is one of the speeches. Maybe Tycho can write for us a thesis on how to hoodwink Kenyans to think they are thinking independently. Yet, they are being told what to think, who to hate and which lies to accept. Thanks for clarifying. I had another smart reposite all set to go but I see Ngalaka beat me to it (damn!): Anyway, here it is: What did this change? Did the voting patterns change? The outcome that we expected (not hoped for)? If CA had flipped a die-hard NASA voting block like Coast, Western or Nyanza into Jubilees column, beyond anything that could have been achieved by good old fashioned rigging for instance, I would begin to believe their hype. Despite all this, I could even be charitable were it not for a pattern I have observed. Over the past 20 years I have noticed that a Western company or organisation has claimed credit for the results of almost every election ever held in a non developed country. They did it for Russia, before Putin showed them the door, recently for Gambia, Liberia...are you surprised that Kenya has made it into their self glorification column? Wakanyugi, do you believe that Uhuru is such a charitable person that he hires white men who have nothing to offer him? Oh, CA, come over, here's my money. I know kenyans don't use Twitter, but here's 1 gazillion dollars to offer services that have absolutely no effect on anything. I know of people who were so scared of saitan that they would have died in the snow just not to see him. Those same people are very confused right now. The daily drip drip of "we want peace", "saitan", were a playbook from one of the first videos from CA. Google it and you shall see that all the problems in Kenya start and end with Saitan. Mlichezwa kama gitaa. Na mkatii. As the rest of the world is trying to figure out how to never have it happen again, in Kenya we are saying we don't have whatsapp. I actually believe Jubilee were sold fake goods. But that seems par for the political crowd. NASA paid millions to some Canadian and Ghanian cons who claimed they could somehow 'protect the vote.' I laughed later when my Ghanian friend told me there was never anything like protecting the vote in Ghana, it was simply a catchy election slogan that happened to arrive at the same time as the people were getting fed up with the lot in power anyway. Trying to convince me that CA was the factor that won the election for Jubilee is a major stretch, even if we were somehow to ignore just how hard NASA worked to beat themselves; ie, their sheer incompetence all round; the decision to front a previously rejected candidate; the inept 'non-campaign' that followed or even the foolish decision to boycott an election in the hope that somehow this would...what? Shame their opponents into throwing in the towel? I have never understood that one If this conversation was about 2013, I could give you the benefit of the doubt. But NASA actually started losing the 2017 election way back in 2015/16 if not before - remember when Jubilee consolidated and beat them again at registering voters? CA was not in the picture then were they? Yeah...I think we underestimate CA's profit motive. They seem to be drumming up business in that video. HOWEVER: If as @Peter reborn up there points out that the people who worked with CA had post-election positions in government and are rolling out the Western agenda as intended, then CA had an even worse effect than just the election. My Dad used to say that when the British left in the 60's the installed Africans (PC's, DC's, DO'S PS's etc) to continue colonialism...Maybe history is repeating itself?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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Dahatre wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:KulaRaha wrote:[quote=Wakanyugi]
This is not how I have understood CA's role. I saw it more as a data mining company, which I think was how Tycho introduced this thread. Again I could be wrong.
While a political campaign certainly could use data mining to craft messages, it needs behaviour/preference/intention data, the kind that your facebook profile can easily show. My point is, a low tech society like ours has slim pickings in terms of useful data to be mined and don't tell me about Mpesa.
It benefits CA's image to push this myth of all seeing greatness and the fear that goes with it. But let me ask you: if they were so good, won't we have seen attempts by Facebook or Google to buy them out? After all these are the two corporates whose future is most strongly tied to the capacity influence thinking and behavior.
Actually very wrong. And Turnbull, in the secret recording by Channel 4, reveals the much they delivered for the UhuRuto and Jubilee Party campaigns:
“The Kenyatta campaign which we ran in 2013 and 2017,” he starts off.
“And what have you done in Kenya?” poses Channel 4 journalist.
“We have rebranded the entire party twice, written their manifesto, done two rounds of 50,000 or so surveys… Then we’d write all the speeches, and we’d stage the whole thing. So just about every element of his campaign.”https://youtu.be/mpbeOCKZFfQ[/quote] look at the recipients of the national medals and get an understanding of what was going on. Jubilee was created somewhere in the USA. I mean, even speeches? But I doubt if "mnataka nifanye nini" is one of the speeches. Maybe Tycho can write for us a thesis on how to hoodwink Kenyans to think they are thinking independently. Yet, they are being told what to think, who to hate and which lies to accept. Thanks for clarifying. I had another smart reposite all set to go but I see Ngalaka beat me to it (damn!): Anyway, here it is: What did this change? Did the voting patterns change? The outcome that we expected (not hoped for)? If CA had flipped a die-hard NASA voting block like Coast, Western or Nyanza into Jubilees column, beyond anything that could have been achieved by good old fashioned rigging for instance, I would begin to believe their hype. Despite all this, I could even be charitable were it not for a pattern I have observed. Over the past 20 years I have noticed that a Western company or organisation has claimed credit for the results of almost every election ever held in a non developed country. They did it for Russia, before Putin showed them the door, recently for Gambia, Liberia...are you surprised that Kenya has made it into their self glorification column? Wakanyugi, do you believe that Uhuru is such a charitable person that he hires white men who have nothing to offer him? Oh, CA, come over, here's my money. I know kenyans don't use Twitter, but here's 1 gazillion dollars to offer services that have absolutely no effect on anything. I know of people who were so scared of saitan that they would have died in the snow just not to see him. Those same people are very confused right now. The daily drip drip of "we want peace", "saitan", were a playbook from one of the first videos from CA. Google it and you shall see that all the problems in Kenya start and end with Saitan. Mlichezwa kama gitaa. Na mkatii. As the rest of the world is trying to figure out how to never have it happen again, in Kenya we are saying we don't have whatsapp. I actually believe Jubilee were sold fake goods. But that seems par for the political crowd. NASA paid millions to some Canadian and Ghanian cons who claimed they could somehow 'protect the vote.' I laughed later when my Ghanian friend told me there was never anything like protecting the vote in Ghana, it was simply a catchy election slogan that happened to arrive at the same time as the people were getting fed up with the lot in power anyway. Trying to convince me that CA was the factor that won the election for Jubilee is a major stretch, even if we were somehow to ignore just how hard NASA worked to beat themselves; ie, their sheer incompetence all round; the decision to front a previously rejected candidate; the inept 'non-campaign' that followed or even the foolish decision to boycott an election in the hope that somehow this would...what? Shame their opponents into throwing in the towel? I have never understood that one If this conversation was about 2013, I could give you the benefit of the doubt. But NASA actually started losing the 2017 election way back in 2015/16 if not before - remember when Jubilee consolidated and beat them again at registering voters? CA was not in the picture then were they? Yeah...I think we underestimate CA's profit motive. They seem to be drumming up business in that video. HOWEVER: If as @Peter reborn up there points out that the people who worked with CA had post-election positions in government and are rolling out the Western agenda as intended, then CA had an even worse effect than just the election. My Dad used to say that when the British left in the 60's the installed Africans (PC's, DC's, DO'S PS's etc) to continue colonialism...Maybe history is repeating itself? There you go. And I ask you again to look at the list of super kenyans from last year. Also take time and read this piece on their workings especially in African countries. How they work and what their end objectives are. https://qz.com/1089911/b...a-is-raising-questions/
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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alma1 wrote:
I mean Mukiri. What was the difference between reading Pauline, Wahome etc and listening to Kameme or Kass FM.
The narrative was very clear. The story was the same. Even here on wazua.
Since now Raira is one of us, let us now blame tech people.
I'm 100% sure that everyone on wazua read Hardwoods story and went to repeat it to the un-tech savvy cucu in gishagi.
@alma if you have never received threats or been followed by cops then your opinion on wazua is among the 100%. Some few of us think for our selves, Jesus said it will be hard to have your own values, to win yourself, your spirit, in the last days, utashinda na ma police and NIS in your case, even roughed up in your premises, sio mchezo vile watu wengi wanifikiri kuwa na opinion ni rahisi, why did moi used to send cops to listen to peoples conversations in dingy barts in corner? Chunga sana, it's way risky than you think, na hakuna pesa vile unafikiria. A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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Much Know wrote:alma1 wrote:
I mean Mukiri. What was the difference between reading Pauline, Wahome etc and listening to Kameme or Kass FM.
The narrative was very clear. The story was the same. Even here on wazua.
Since now Raira is one of us, let us now blame tech people.
I'm 100% sure that everyone on wazua read Hardwoods story and went to repeat it to the un-tech savvy cucu in gishagi.
@alma if you have never received threats or been followed by cops then your opinion on wazua is among the 100%. Some few of us think for our selves, Jesus said it will be hard to have your own values, to win yourself, your spirit, in the last days, utashinda na ma police and NIS in your case, even roughed up in your premises, sio mchezo vile watu wengi wanifikiri kuwa na opinion ni rahisi, why did moi used to send cops to listen to peoples conversations in dingy barts in corner? Chunga sana, it's way risky than you think, na hakuna pesa vile unafikiria. You end up having to chotea criminals my fren, that's Kenya! A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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alma1 wrote:Mukiri wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:KulaRaha wrote:Hardwood isnt a CA guy, those guys are subtle and sharp, high tech.
Hardwood is like those rungus everyone sees...must be Ole Tumbi employee/consultant. CA guys use guys like Hardwood all the time. Fake accounts that are online 24 hours a day are their modus operandi. Akina Itumbi, Pauline Njoroge and other jubilee bloggers are just dumb fellas. They have to wait until 2pm to be told by Cambridge Analytica what to say. They can't think for themselves. Just like the Kenyan voter. So I disagree, Hardwood has all the hallmarks of a Fake Account created for the sole purpose of creating discord. Controversy sells. Then after he writes something, you have the dummies like harrdre, realty etc agreeing. Kenyans have been had. Been took. Ran Amock. Bamboozled.Kumbe even tyranny of numbers was a CA expression. What Kenyans are we talking about? This is another example of the online crowd falling in love with their own noise and thinking everyone is like them. How many Wanjiku's own a smart phone, facebook account or twirra, or even care? Yet you can bet every Wanjiku knows about ballots and how they are cast and have an idea how they are won or lost. Wazuans should listen to Masukuma more often. We are a low-tech society led by a privileged high tech elite who think their online navel gazing is holy writ for the masses. If socio media decided elections in Kenya, Peter Kenneth would be governor of Nairobi and Mwangi would be MP for Starehe. My sentiments exactly. Wanjiku out there only prides herself in a simple phone that has access to mpesa (and porn), all else comes secondary to putting food on the table. Unless its a media campaign, as most if not all people watch/listen to news, then it goes unseen. Do the tech savvy even vote? My frens. It's ok to admit that you were had. Not using difficult words. Ati Wanjiku is not tech savvy. Ha! Try another one. Can you name one person you know who doesn't have whatsapp? Name one Whatsapp group you know that did not spread a blatant lie for or against.Please stop pretending that you were not had. Cases of our own media copy pasting a blatant lie in their front pages abound. I remember standard had a picture of burning cars somewhere. They said it was nasa people. The picture was from another country. The media in Kenya just parrots what comes from the offices of PR firms. PR firms are told what to say by the idea men. I mean Mukiri. What was the difference between reading Pauline, Wahome etc and listening to Kameme or Kass FM. The narrative was very clear. The story was the same. Even here on wazua. Since now Raira is one of us, let us now blame tech people. I'm 100% sure that everyone on wazua read Hardwoods story and went to repeat it to the un-tech savvy cucu in gishagi. If you did not notice, then you are the sheep that CA targets. Most, if not all my folk n the village, their neighbours and entire rustic folk don't even know what whatsapp is. I can tell you for a fact, they were in the voting queue! I cannot guarantee the xaxa generation I know voted. Alot of white lies. I think you have divorced the facts on the ground from the reality you created around you. Who are the voting majority? Like someone said, in Nairobi if those who use whatsapp had any voting muscle, PK would be governor. And Nairobi is where the majority of the tech savvy reside
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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Mukiri wrote:alma1 wrote:Mukiri wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:KulaRaha wrote:Hardwood isnt a CA guy, those guys are subtle and sharp, high tech.
Hardwood is like those rungus everyone sees...must be Ole Tumbi employee/consultant. CA guys use guys like Hardwood all the time. Fake accounts that are online 24 hours a day are their modus operandi. Akina Itumbi, Pauline Njoroge and other jubilee bloggers are just dumb fellas. They have to wait until 2pm to be told by Cambridge Analytica what to say. They can't think for themselves. Just like the Kenyan voter. So I disagree, Hardwood has all the hallmarks of a Fake Account created for the sole purpose of creating discord. Controversy sells. Then after he writes something, you have the dummies like harrdre, realty etc agreeing. Kenyans have been had. Been took. Ran Amock. Bamboozled.Kumbe even tyranny of numbers was a CA expression. What Kenyans are we talking about? This is another example of the online crowd falling in love with their own noise and thinking everyone is like them. How many Wanjiku's own a smart phone, facebook account or twirra, or even care? Yet you can bet every Wanjiku knows about ballots and how they are cast and have an idea how they are won or lost. Wazuans should listen to Masukuma more often. We are a low-tech society led by a privileged high tech elite who think their online navel gazing is holy writ for the masses. If socio media decided elections in Kenya, Peter Kenneth would be governor of Nairobi and Mwangi would be MP for Starehe. My sentiments exactly. Wanjiku out there only prides herself in a simple phone that has access to mpesa (and porn), all else comes secondary to putting food on the table. Unless its a media campaign, as most if not all people watch/listen to news, then it goes unseen. Do the tech savvy even vote? My frens. It's ok to admit that you were had. Not using difficult words. Ati Wanjiku is not tech savvy. Ha! Try another one. Can you name one person you know who doesn't have whatsapp? Name one Whatsapp group you know that did not spread a blatant lie for or against.Please stop pretending that you were not had. Cases of our own media copy pasting a blatant lie in their front pages abound. I remember standard had a picture of burning cars somewhere. They said it was nasa people. The picture was from another country. The media in Kenya just parrots what comes from the offices of PR firms. PR firms are told what to say by the idea men. I mean Mukiri. What was the difference between reading Pauline, Wahome etc and listening to Kameme or Kass FM. The narrative was very clear. The story was the same. Even here on wazua. Since now Raira is one of us, let us now blame tech people. I'm 100% sure that everyone on wazua read Hardwoods story and went to repeat it to the un-tech savvy cucu in gishagi. If you did not notice, then you are the sheep that CA targets. Most, if not all my folk n the village, their neighbours and entire rustic folk don't even know what whatsapp is. I can tell you for a fact, they were in the voting queue! I cannot guarantee the xaxa generation I know voted. Alot of white lies. I think you have divorced the facts on the ground from the reality you created around you. Who are the voting majority? Like someone said, in Nairobi if those who use whatsapp had any voting muscle, PK would be governor. And Nairobi is where the majority of the tech savvy reside My fren. I don't see why you should be proud about your people not having whatsapp. My cucu has it and she doesn't live in nairobi. The people who don't have whatsapp listen to Kameme. The kamemeaits get their talking point memo from you know who. Stop pretending that you don't know how things work. In your gishagi, since they are so backward they don't have whatsapp, they depend on you to tell them how raira charo nefa mbe. You got how he charo nefa mbe from hardwood on wazua. It's called nodal dissemination. You don't tell everyone, you tell and confuse the main nodes. The main nodes being dummies go and tell their nyumba kumi and all of a sudden you have 1 million dummies who wake up in the morning hating someone because they heard it in grapevine. These CA guys are actually very good. For some reason, they have made you believe they only work on twirra. Their work is to find a resonating message and find the easiest method of disseminating it. One of the reasons I believe they wrote the Jubilee manifesto is because up until this morning, my kids still do not have a laptop. By the way, I sincerely believe that you do think that Kenyan voters are dummies. CA have confessed that they did it. They even bought red Tshirts for everyone. Yet, here you are saying they didn't do it. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, the question as to whether CA caused any change in the last elections may be quite tricky because the main opposition was out of the race.
2013? There may be reasons to suspect that such actions of the CA would have made a difference.
But I'd like to ask: Are such actions by the CA powerful enough to affect decisions?
What are the implications of major policy makers to take a position of nudging populations to certain ideas and actions? Good points Tycho. This is where scholarship may be useful in debunking some myths that have grown to assume Papal infallibility. One of them is that elections are decided by flipping people who were going to vote one way into voting another. Not true, not even in America, where we are made to believe people vote on issues. Elections are decided by people voting their interests, those who feel their interests are not well represented tend to stay home. Whether these interests align with tribe, clans, castes, social classes etc is besides the point. The winner is the one who can convince the largest number that he represents their interest or that the other guy is a threat to those interests - something you do by simple campaigning or old fashioned advertising. Social media is a cheaper platform for delivering these messages but that is about it. 1. If there are a group of voters who are yet to decide on which side to vote for, then is there a possibility of convincing them to a certain position? Is it reasonable to have such expectations? 2. Where and how do citizens get information about what best serves their interests? And if they were to make any calculations, would the necessary information be given by other parties whose interests may yet be unknown? 3. When we are in a hypermedia environment, is it enough to expect to be effective when you insist on limited media channels?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, the question as to whether CA caused any change in the last elections may be quite tricky because the main opposition was out of the race.
2013? There may be reasons to suspect that such actions of the CA would have made a difference.
But I'd like to ask: Are such actions by the CA powerful enough to affect decisions?
What are the implications of major policy makers to take a position of nudging populations to certain ideas and actions? Good points Tycho. This is where scholarship may be useful in debunking some myths that have grown to assume Papal infallibility. One of them is that elections are decided by flipping people who were going to vote one way into voting another. Not true, not even in America, where we are made to believe people vote on issues. Elections are decided by people voting their interests, those who feel their interests are not well represented tend to stay home. Whether these interests align with tribe, clans, castes, social classes etc is besides the point. The winner is the one who can convince the largest number that he represents their interest or that the other guy is a threat to those interests - something you do by simple campaigning or old fashioned advertising. Social media is a cheaper platform for delivering these messages but that is about it. 1. If there are a group of voters who are yet to decide on which side to vote for, then is there a possibility of convincing them to a certain position? Is it reasonable to have such expectations? 2. Where and how do citizens get information about what best serves their interests? And if they were to make any calculations, would the necessary information be given by other parties whose interests may yet be unknown? 3. When we are in a hypermedia environment, is it enough to expect to be effective when you insist on limited media channels? Interesting questions. I remember when Alai got "saved" and all of a sudden he was the person telling truth to power. Was he with his new found faith giving information for the good of the luo nation or so that he could pay the car note? Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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alma1 wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, the question as to whether CA caused any change in the last elections may be quite tricky because the main opposition was out of the race.
2013? There may be reasons to suspect that such actions of the CA would have made a difference.
But I'd like to ask: Are such actions by the CA powerful enough to affect decisions?
What are the implications of major policy makers to take a position of nudging populations to certain ideas and actions? Good points Tycho. This is where scholarship may be useful in debunking some myths that have grown to assume Papal infallibility. One of them is that elections are decided by flipping people who were going to vote one way into voting another. Not true, not even in America, where we are made to believe people vote on issues. Elections are decided by people voting their interests, those who feel their interests are not well represented tend to stay home. Whether these interests align with tribe, clans, castes, social classes etc is besides the point. The winner is the one who can convince the largest number that he represents their interest or that the other guy is a threat to those interests - something you do by simple campaigning or old fashioned advertising. Social media is a cheaper platform for delivering these messages but that is about it. 1. If there are a group of voters who are yet to decide on which side to vote for, then is there a possibility of convincing them to a certain position? Is it reasonable to have such expectations? 2. Where and how do citizens get information about what best serves their interests? And if they were to make any calculations, would the necessary information be given by other parties whose interests may yet be unknown? 3. When we are in a hypermedia environment, is it enough to expect to be effective when you insist on limited media channels? Interesting questions. I remember when Alai got "saved" and all of a sudden he was the person telling truth to power. Was he with his new found faith giving information for the good of the luo nation or so that he could pay the car note? Satan huyo unasemea alimustua! A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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alma1 wrote:Mukiri wrote:alma1 wrote:Mukiri wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:alma1 wrote:KulaRaha wrote:Hardwood isnt a CA guy, those guys are subtle and sharp, high tech.
Hardwood is like those rungus everyone sees...must be Ole Tumbi employee/consultant. CA guys use guys like Hardwood all the time. Fake accounts that are online 24 hours a day are their modus operandi. Akina Itumbi, Pauline Njoroge and other jubilee bloggers are just dumb fellas. They have to wait until 2pm to be told by Cambridge Analytica what to say. They can't think for themselves. Just like the Kenyan voter. So I disagree, Hardwood has all the hallmarks of a Fake Account created for the sole purpose of creating discord. Controversy sells. Then after he writes something, you have the dummies like harrdre, realty etc agreeing. Kenyans have been had. Been took. Ran Amock. Bamboozled.Kumbe even tyranny of numbers was a CA expression. What Kenyans are we talking about? This is another example of the online crowd falling in love with their own noise and thinking everyone is like them. How many Wanjiku's own a smart phone, facebook account or twirra, or even care? Yet you can bet every Wanjiku knows about ballots and how they are cast and have an idea how they are won or lost. Wazuans should listen to Masukuma more often. We are a low-tech society led by a privileged high tech elite who think their online navel gazing is holy writ for the masses. If socio media decided elections in Kenya, Peter Kenneth would be governor of Nairobi and Mwangi would be MP for Starehe. My sentiments exactly. Wanjiku out there only prides herself in a simple phone that has access to mpesa (and porn), all else comes secondary to putting food on the table. Unless its a media campaign, as most if not all people watch/listen to news, then it goes unseen. Do the tech savvy even vote? My frens. It's ok to admit that you were had. Not using difficult words. Ati Wanjiku is not tech savvy. Ha! Try another one. Can you name one person you know who doesn't have whatsapp? Name one Whatsapp group you know that did not spread a blatant lie for or against.Please stop pretending that you were not had. Cases of our own media copy pasting a blatant lie in their front pages abound. I remember standard had a picture of burning cars somewhere. They said it was nasa people. The picture was from another country. The media in Kenya just parrots what comes from the offices of PR firms. PR firms are told what to say by the idea men. I mean Mukiri. What was the difference between reading Pauline, Wahome etc and listening to Kameme or Kass FM. The narrative was very clear. The story was the same. Even here on wazua. Since now Raira is one of us, let us now blame tech people. I'm 100% sure that everyone on wazua read Hardwoods story and went to repeat it to the un-tech savvy cucu in gishagi. If you did not notice, then you are the sheep that CA targets. Most, if not all my folk n the village, their neighbours and entire rustic folk don't even know what whatsapp is. I can tell you for a fact, they were in the voting queue! I cannot guarantee the xaxa generation I know voted. Alot of white lies. I think you have divorced the facts on the ground from the reality you created around you. Who are the voting majority? Like someone said, in Nairobi if those who use whatsapp had any voting muscle, PK would be governor. And Nairobi is where the majority of the tech savvy reside My fren. I don't see why you should be proud about your people not having whatsapp. My cucu has it and she doesn't live in nairobi. The people who don't have whatsapp listen to Kameme. The kamemeaits get their talking point memo from you know who. Stop pretending that you don't know how things work. In your gishagi, since they are so backward they don't have whatsapp, they depend on you to tell them how raira charo nefa mbe. You got how he charo nefa mbe from hardwood on wazua. It's called nodal dissemination. You don't tell everyone, you tell and confuse the main nodes. The main nodes being dummies go and tell their nyumba kumi and all of a sudden you have 1 million dummies who wake up in the morning hating someone because they heard it in grapevine. These CA guys are actually very good. For some reason, they have made you believe they only work on twirra. Their work is to find a resonating message and find the easiest method of disseminating it. One of the reasons I believe they wrote the Jubilee manifesto is because up until this morning, my kids still do not have a laptop. By the way, I sincerely believe that you do think that Kenyan voters are dummies. CA have confessed that they did it. They even bought red Tshirts for everyone. Yet, here you are saying they didn't do it. I'm still stuck at the part where your grandma has whatsapp.. I think that calls for a new thread!  Kweli, we are not all equal!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, the question as to whether CA caused any change in the last elections may be quite tricky because the main opposition was out of the race.
2013? There may be reasons to suspect that such actions of the CA would have made a difference.
But I'd like to ask: Are such actions by the CA powerful enough to affect decisions?
What are the implications of major policy makers to take a position of nudging populations to certain ideas and actions? Good points Tycho. This is where scholarship may be useful in debunking some myths that have grown to assume Papal infallibility. One of them is that elections are decided by flipping people who were going to vote one way into voting another. Not true, not even in America, where we are made to believe people vote on issues. Elections are decided by people voting their interests, those who feel their interests are not well represented tend to stay home. Whether these interests align with tribe, clans, castes, social classes etc is besides the point. The winner is the one who can convince the largest number that he represents their interest or that the other guy is a threat to those interests - something you do by simple campaigning or old fashioned advertising. Social media is a cheaper platform for delivering these messages but that is about it. 1. If there are a group of voters who are yet to decide on which side to vote for, then is there a possibility of convincing them to a certain position? Is it reasonable to have such expectations? (If there are a group of voters who are yet to decide where there best interests lie in the political competition, then it is possible to convince them. But can you think of many Kenyan voters who are in this situation? The Kenyan voter may be deluded but they all think they know what is good for them. A Kenyans self of being is largely constructed around the familiar/community locus. We see our interests as largely tied to that of our kin. This definition of kin may change, for instance it widens the further we are from our ancestral origins. But it largely means that, when allocating power, trust, or opportunity to another we think of our kin first. 'Ka mwene', 'kula na mwenzako', 'cham gi wadu' these are not modern philosophies yet we all subscribe to them, even when we may deny the fact ) 2. Where and how do citizens get information about what best serves their interests? (From different sources of course. But Almas insistence that social media is the most important source is a delusion in my, not very humble, opinion). 3. When we are in a hypermedia environment, is it enough to expect to be effective when you insist on limited media channels? From a candidates perspective, modern politics, being as it is mostly about image and projection, is a bit like advertising. You believe half of it works but you don't know which half. So there will always be room for the likes of CA even when they peddle deodorized cow dung. It will take time for the truth to come out but it will. Like I said the best judges of the likes of of CA would be google and facebook. They want nothing to do with them."The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Wakanyugi, I agree that most Kenyans vote along tribal and ethnic lines.
But even within ethnic groups convictions are never so intense and uniform. The elites hog most of the goodies, and the majority try to get the trickles, and many a times they may take an indifferent position.
It's in such circumstances that a contestant may decide to make sure that the discontented remain in the fold. How to do that?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, I agree that most Kenyans vote along tribal and ethnic lines.
But even within ethnic groups convictions are never so intense and uniform. The elites hog most of the goodies, and the majority try to get the trickles, and many a times they may take an indifferent position.
It's in such circumstances that a contestant may decide to make sure that the discontented remain in the fold. How to do that?
Tycho, some realities about our people are painful but they are our people and we can't divorce them. Let's say you are an educated Luo gentleman, maybe a successful professional or businessman. As a similarly educated and engaged Kikuyu, you and I have more in common that we have with our tribe mates back in the Village. Yet in an election it is very likely that I will not give you my vote, even if I make all sorts of self justifying noises. My kinship locus of being is so strong that the best I can do for you is to stay away from the ballot. Some contestants have become good about nudging people to do this - convincing the other side that their guy can not win and so they might as well stay away. This is the card Jubilee played, to devastating effect, on NASA last year. But, before Alma, aka CA, jumps in to say I told you, such strategic campaigning and voting are not new. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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