Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
So Weinstein also ate Lupita
Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
|
Kusadikika wrote:For men. If one Friday night you go out with a girl and you ended up having sex and then one week later you had a disagreement. If this girl was to write anonymously in a newspaper article a detailed and truthful account of everything that happened between the 2 of you and you got the paper and read the story 3 weeks later there is a very good chance you would not recognize yourself in the story. Men and women have a way of remembering different things while seeing the same thing. Passage of time and things like regret or jealousy also have a powerful influence on memory.
For women: If one Friday night you go out with a dude and end up having sex that you plan to have, are prepared for and enjoy, you discuss the experience with your BFF’s or write about it in glowing terms even after you quarrel with the boyfie. On the other hand if you go out with a dude, you get a bit tipsy, want to go home, but he convinces you to go to his place for a cup of coffee to reduce the tipsiness before going home. He then wants to have sex, but you do not and you say no. He insists and is a little forceful but not outrightly violent. You relent to prevent escalation to rape/violence. He will remember it as a consensual encounter, but you will remember/write about it differently. Because the man did not listen to your no’s. Respect for the agency of the woman is what distinguishes the two outcomes.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
|
Lupita's story is one that shall live for ages. Her writing is one that shall even open doors for her in book writing. In the meantime, wazua alpha males shall still be struggling to pay for their "car". Boss, that lady, weka yeye pamoja na the heros of this country. Lakini, you are allowed to post upus on the internet. Luckily for you, you are not as brave as she is to put your real name here. You are just a coward. Keyboard warrior. Let women who are strong and with conviction do their thing. If you are lucky, they might actually give birth to your heirs. Otherwise, just stay with your stupid mama who just says yes and expect your kids to be wise. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 9/27/2006 Posts: 503
|
Dahatre wrote:Kusadikika wrote:For men. If one Friday night you go out with a girl and you ended up having sex and then one week later you had a disagreement. If this girl was to write anonymously in a newspaper article a detailed and truthful account of everything that happened between the 2 of you and you got the paper and read the story 3 weeks later there is a very good chance you would not recognize yourself in the story. Men and women have a way of remembering different things while seeing the same thing. Passage of time and things like regret or jealousy also have a powerful influence on memory.
For women: If one Friday night you go out with a dude and end up having sex that you plan to have, are prepared for and enjoy, you discuss the experience with your BFF’s or write about it in glowing terms even after you quarrel with the boyfie. On the other hand if you go out with a dude, you get a bit tipsy, want to go home, but he convinces you to go to his place for a cup of coffee to reduce the tipsiness before going home. He then wants to have sex, but you do not and you say no. He insists and is a little forceful but not outrightly violent. You relent to prevent escalation to rape/violence. He will remember it as a consensual encounter, but you will remember/write about it differently. Because the man did not listen to your no’s. Respect for the agency of the woman is what distinguishes the two outcomes. Devil's advocate: The difference here is that there was an implicit or explicit gain in the end. Your example, while valid, seems not to fit the context.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
|
alma1 wrote:Lupita's story is one that shall live for ages. Her writing is one that shall even open doors for her in book writing.
In the meantime, wazua alpha males shall still be struggling to pay for their "car".
Boss, that lady, weka yeye pamoja na the heros of this country.
Lakini, you are allowed to post upus on the internet. Luckily for you, you are not as brave as she is to put your real name here. You are just a coward. Keyboard warrior.
Let women who are strong and with conviction do their thing. If you are lucky, they might actually give birth to your heirs. Otherwise, just stay with your stupid mama who just says yes and expect your kids to be wise. Jezzzus, what is the world coming to? You seduce a woman, invite her for lunch in your house, after lunch you both head to your bedroom for some intimate moments, you strip naked and have massages and blowjobs and then she tells you "ingiza kichwa peke yake", then the woman writes in the New York Times that you sexually harassed her. And she never screamed or called 911. It was all consensual. What kind of nonsense is this? This is called seduction and not sexual harassment. How the hell will men ever get married if they cant seduce a woman, invite her lunch and then go to the bedroom to have sex?
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
|
Dahatre wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how predictable the narrative of sexual harassment/abuse/assault/violence is.
As soon as a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct we quickly find ways to absolve the man by focusing on the woman’s behavior. What did the woman do/not do to bring the abuse onto herself—Why did she go to his house? Why did she drink? what was she wearing? How can we believe her? etc etc..
The net effect is that we never ask the central questions—Why can’t men stop sexually harassing/assaulting/raping women? When does a man, especially a man in power become accountable for his behavior? Why do so many men appear to enjoy coercive sex? Why do men not respect the agency of women?
If we asked the latter questions of men, we might have a fighting chance of raising men who know how to relate to women respectfully.
And it never ceases to amaze me how people like yourself are so adamant about throwing out due process in favor of mental mob justice. We can't be sentencing people based on hearsay, and sensible people question hearsay relentlessly till evidence is produced.
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 5/17/2008 Posts: 488
|
So Weinstein also ate Lupita
There're two ways of looking at this... 1. That Lupita was one more of Wein's victims 2. That Wein was one more beneficiary of Lupita's generosity.
Which one did you intend?
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
|
gk wrote:So Weinstein also ate Lupita
There're two ways of looking at this... 1. That Lupita was one more of Wein's victims 2. That Wein was one more beneficiary of Lupita's generosity.
Which one did you intend? I'm reminded of Archer's A Twist In The Tale. Women go through alot. I remember someone trying to paraphrase to me... a small boned man being locked up in a prison full of gays! But that asdie, you don't get called up by a busy powerful director, and not expect sho(r)t time to be on the menu
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
|
hardwood wrote:alma1 wrote:Lupita's story is one that shall live for ages. Her writing is one that shall even open doors for her in book writing.
In the meantime, wazua alpha males shall still be struggling to pay for their "car".
Boss, that lady, weka yeye pamoja na the heros of this country.
Lakini, you are allowed to post upus on the internet. Luckily for you, you are not as brave as she is to put your real name here. You are just a coward. Keyboard warrior.
Let women who are strong and with conviction do their thing. If you are lucky, they might actually give birth to your heirs. Otherwise, just stay with your stupid mama who just says yes and expect your kids to be wise. Jezzzus, what is the world coming to? You seduce a woman, invite her for lunch in your house, after lunch you both head to your bedroom for some intimate moments, you strip naked and have massages and blowjobs and then she tells you "ingiza kichwa peke yake", then the woman writes in the New York Times that you sexually harassed her. And she never screamed or called 911. It was all consensual. What kind of nonsense is this? This is called seduction and not sexual harassment. How the hell will men ever get married if they cant seduce a woman, invite her lunch and then go to the bedroom to have sex? People still practice the kichwa thing. Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
|
|
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
|
Rapists! If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
|
Dahatre wrote:Kusadikika wrote:For men. If one Friday night you go out with a girl and you ended up having sex and then one week later you had a disagreement. If this girl was to write anonymously in a newspaper article a detailed and truthful account of everything that happened between the 2 of you and you got the paper and read the story 3 weeks later there is a very good chance you would not recognize yourself in the story. Men and women have a way of remembering different things while seeing the same thing. Passage of time and things like regret or jealousy also have a powerful influence on memory.
For women: If one Friday night you go out with a dude and end up having sex that you plan to have, are prepared for and enjoy, you discuss the experience with your BFF’s or write about it in glowing terms even after you quarrel with the boyfie. On the other hand if you go out with a dude, you get a bit tipsy, want to go home, but he convinces you to go to his place for a cup of coffee to reduce the tipsiness before going home. He then wants to have sex, but you do not and you say no. He insists and is a little forceful but not outrightly violent. You relent to prevent escalation to rape/violence. He will remember it as a consensual encounter, but you will remember/write about it differently. Because the man did not listen to your no’s. Respect for the agency of the woman is what distinguishes the two outcomes. As a man, you should be able to tell when it's time. Do not pick up a girl and have sex on day one, you would not have had enough time to know her well, in fact you should never invite her to your home. Don't be so desperate. BBI will solve it :)
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
|
deadpoet wrote:Dahatre wrote:Kusadikika wrote:For men. If one Friday night you go out with a girl and you ended up having sex and then one week later you had a disagreement. If this girl was to write anonymously in a newspaper article a detailed and truthful account of everything that happened between the 2 of you and you got the paper and read the story 3 weeks later there is a very good chance you would not recognize yourself in the story. Men and women have a way of remembering different things while seeing the same thing. Passage of time and things like regret or jealousy also have a powerful influence on memory.
For women: If one Friday night you go out with a dude and end up having sex that you plan to have, are prepared for and enjoy, you discuss the experience with your BFF’s or write about it in glowing terms even after you quarrel with the boyfie. On the other hand if you go out with a dude, you get a bit tipsy, want to go home, but he convinces you to go to his place for a cup of coffee to reduce the tipsiness before going home. He then wants to have sex, but you do not and you say no. He insists and is a little forceful but not outrightly violent. You relent to prevent escalation to rape/violence. He will remember it as a consensual encounter, but you will remember/write about it differently. Because the man did not listen to your no’s. Respect for the agency of the woman is what distinguishes the two outcomes. Devil's advocate: The difference here is that there was an implicit or explicit gain in the end. Your example, while valid, seems not to fit the context. Yeah the situation can be interpreted as being mutually beneficial for the couple at the beginning (maybe they are in early stages of a relationship?), but does not end up that way because one person is coerced into doing something she does not want to do. Note that I could have given a clearer example where there is outright violence (date rape for example) but did not, opting for a more common example where a woman's agency is disregarded.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
|
Mukiri wrote:gk wrote:So Weinstein also ate Lupita
There're two ways of looking at this... 1. That Lupita was one more of Wein's victims 2. That Wein was one more beneficiary of Lupita's generosity.
Which one did you intend? I'm reminded of Archer's A Twist In The Tale. Women go through alot. I remember someone trying to paraphrase to me... a small boned man being locked up in a prison full of gays! But that asdie, you don't get called up by a busy powerful director, and not expect sho(r)t time to be on the menu what if director is gay?
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
|
Mike Ock wrote:Dahatre wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how predictable the narrative of sexual harassment/abuse/assault/violence is.
As soon as a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct we quickly find ways to absolve the man by focusing on the woman’s behavior. What did the woman do/not do to bring the abuse onto herself—Why did she go to his house? Why did she drink? what was she wearing? How can we believe her? etc etc..
The net effect is that we never ask the central questions—Why can’t men stop sexually harassing/assaulting/raping women? When does a man, especially a man in power become accountable for his behavior? Why do so many men appear to enjoy coercive sex? Why do men not respect the agency of women?
If we asked the latter questions of men, we might have a fighting chance of raising men who know how to relate to women respectfully.
And it never ceases to amaze me how people like yourself are so adamant about throwing out due process in favor of mental mob justice. We can't be sentencing people based on hearsay, and sensible people question hearsay relentlessly till evidence is produced. Guilty as charged…lol! Sue me! But…. -As long as women continue to be Coerced into sex/assaulted/raped/killed for denying sex to men -As long as women get shamed/fired/denied growth opportunities for reporting harassment -As long as the fear of being shamed/fired/denied a growth opportunity/being labeled liars prevents women from reporting and pursuing justice for harassment/assaults/rape -As long as women who are otherwise capable think they need to sleep with a man (or are seen as getting where they do because they slept with a powerful man). And: -As long as men continue to use their physical/economic/societal power to coerce women into sex they do not want -As long as sexual predators especially those targeting under 24’s (girls and boys )exist -As long as we continue to believe that women are not sexual beings who do not know their own bodies/needs/wants and that when they say no they do not mean it and need convincing/coercion/or forced sex -As long as we continue to delude ourselves that there is due process when a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct -As long as we refuse to believe that the ways we socialize boys’ attitude towards sex harms girls.. Some of us will happily accept the “mental mob justice” crowd label.
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/22/2009 Posts: 2,449 Location: Africa
|
Dahatre wrote:Mike Ock wrote:Dahatre wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how predictable the narrative of sexual harassment/abuse/assault/violence is.
As soon as a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct we quickly find ways to absolve the man by focusing on the woman’s behavior. What did the woman do/not do to bring the abuse onto herself—Why did she go to his house? Why did she drink? what was she wearing? How can we believe her? etc etc..
The net effect is that we never ask the central questions—Why can’t men stop sexually harassing/assaulting/raping women? When does a man, especially a man in power become accountable for his behavior? Why do so many men appear to enjoy coercive sex? Why do men not respect the agency of women?
If we asked the latter questions of men, we might have a fighting chance of raising men who know how to relate to women respectfully.
And it never ceases to amaze me how people like yourself are so adamant about throwing out due process in favor of mental mob justice. We can't be sentencing people based on hearsay, and sensible people question hearsay relentlessly till evidence is produced. Guilty as charged…lol! Sue me! But…. -As long as women continue to be Coerced into sex/assaulted/raped/killed for denying sex to men -As long as women get shamed/fired/denied growth opportunities for reporting harassment -As long as the fear of being shamed/fired/denied a growth opportunity/being labeled liars prevents women from reporting and pursuing justice for harassment/assaults/rape -As long as women who are otherwise capable think they need to sleep with a man (or are seen as getting where they do because they slept with a powerful man). And: -As long as men continue to use their physical/economic/societal power to coerce women into sex they do not want -As long as sexual predators especially those targeting under 24’s (girls and boys )exist -As long as we continue to believe that women are not sexual beings who do not know their own bodies/needs/wants and that when they say no they do not mean it and need convincing/coercion/or forced sex -As long as we continue to delude ourselves that there is due process when a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct -As long as we refuse to believe that the ways we socialize boys’ attitude towards sex harms girls.. Some of us will happily accept the “mental mob justice” crowd label. Well put!!!!
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
|
Lupita Nyong'o wrote:I hope we are in a pivotal moment where a sisterhood — and brotherhood of allies — is being formed in our industry. I hope we can form a community where a woman can speak up about abuse and not suffer another abuse by not being believed and instead being ridiculed. That’s why we don’t speak up — for fear of suffering twice, and for fear of being labeled and characterized by our moment of powerlessness.
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 344
|
I think we need to revisit consent with this tea analogy that has been shared before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8
If you ask your friend, “Hey, would you like a cup of tea?” and they go, “OMG, f*ck yes, I would f*cking LOVE a cup of tea! Thank you!” Then you know they want a cup of tea. If you say, “Hey, would you like a cup of tea?” and they um and ahh and say, “I’m not really sure…” then you can make them a cup of tea or not, but be aware that they might not drink it, and if they don’t drink it then — this is the important bit — don’t make them drink it. You can’t blame them for you going to the effort of making the tea on the off chance they wanted it; you just have to deal with them not drinking it. Just because you made it doesn’t mean you are entitled to watch them drink it. If they say, “No, thank you,” then don’t make them tea. At all. Don’t make them tea, don’t make them drink tea, don’t get annoyed at them for not wanting tea. They just don’t want tea, okay? They might say, “Yes, please, that’s kind of you,” and then when the tea arrives they actually don’t want the tea at all. Sure, that’s kind of annoying as you’ve gone to the effort of making the tea, but they remain under no obligation to drink the tea. They did want tea, now they don’t. Sometimes people change their mind in the time it takes to boil that kettle, brew the tea and add the milk. And it’s okay for people to change their mind, and you are still not entitled to watch them drink it even though you went to the trouble of making it. If they are unconscious, don’t make them tea. Unconscious people don’t want tea and can’t answer the question, “Do you want tea?” because they are unconscious. Okay, maybe they were conscious when you asked them if they wanted tea, and they said yes, but in the time it took you to boil that kettle, brew the tea and add the milk they are now unconscious. You should just put the tea down, make sure the unconscious person is safe, and — this is the important bit — don’t make them drink the tea. If someone said yes to tea, started drinking it and then passed out before they’d finished it, don’t keep on pouring it down their throat. Take the tea away and make sure they are safe. Because unconscious people don’t want tea. Trust me on this. If someone said “yes” to tea around your house last Saturday, that doesn’t mean that they want you to make them tea all the time. They don’t want you to come around unexpectedly to their place and make them tea and force them to drink it going, “BUT YOU WANTED TEA LAST WEEK,” or to wake up to find you pouring tea down their throat going “BUT YOU WANTED TEA LAST NIGHT.”
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
|
Shak wrote:Dahatre wrote:Mike Ock wrote:Dahatre wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how predictable the narrative of sexual harassment/abuse/assault/violence is.
As soon as a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct we quickly find ways to absolve the man by focusing on the woman’s behavior. What did the woman do/not do to bring the abuse onto herself—Why did she go to his house? Why did she drink? what was she wearing? How can we believe her? etc etc..
The net effect is that we never ask the central questions—Why can’t men stop sexually harassing/assaulting/raping women? When does a man, especially a man in power become accountable for his behavior? Why do so many men appear to enjoy coercive sex? Why do men not respect the agency of women?
If we asked the latter questions of men, we might have a fighting chance of raising men who know how to relate to women respectfully.
And it never ceases to amaze me how people like yourself are so adamant about throwing out due process in favor of mental mob justice. We can't be sentencing people based on hearsay, and sensible people question hearsay relentlessly till evidence is produced. Guilty as charged…lol! Sue me! But…. -As long as women continue to be Coerced into sex/assaulted/raped/killed for denying sex to men -As long as women get shamed/fired/denied growth opportunities for reporting harassment -As long as the fear of being shamed/fired/denied a growth opportunity/being labeled liars prevents women from reporting and pursuing justice for harassment/assaults/rape -As long as women who are otherwise capable think they need to sleep with a man (or are seen as getting where they do because they slept with a powerful man). And: -As long as men continue to use their physical/economic/societal power to coerce women into sex they do not want -As long as sexual predators especially those targeting under 24’s (girls and boys )exist -As long as we continue to believe that women are not sexual beings who do not know their own bodies/needs/wants and that when they say no they do not mean it and need convincing/coercion/or forced sex -As long as we continue to delude ourselves that there is due process when a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct -As long as we refuse to believe that the ways we socialize boys’ attitude towards sex harms girls.. Some of us will happily accept the “mental mob justice” crowd label. Well put!!!! Nonsense. Anyway, when someone lodges unsubstantiated claims against you in the media, you'll be begging for due process, I guarantee it.
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/9/2009 Posts: 2,003
|
As an individual affected with rape, I completely agree with the ladies...
Nothing can justify rape...
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
|
Mike Ock wrote:Shak wrote:Dahatre wrote:Mike Ock wrote:Dahatre wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how predictable the narrative of sexual harassment/abuse/assault/violence is.
As soon as a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct we quickly find ways to absolve the man by focusing on the woman’s behavior. What did the woman do/not do to bring the abuse onto herself—Why did she go to his house? Why did she drink? what was she wearing? How can we believe her? etc etc..
The net effect is that we never ask the central questions—Why can’t men stop sexually harassing/assaulting/raping women? When does a man, especially a man in power become accountable for his behavior? Why do so many men appear to enjoy coercive sex? Why do men not respect the agency of women?
If we asked the latter questions of men, we might have a fighting chance of raising men who know how to relate to women respectfully.
And it never ceases to amaze me how people like yourself are so adamant about throwing out due process in favor of mental mob justice. We can't be sentencing people based on hearsay, and sensible people question hearsay relentlessly till evidence is produced. Guilty as charged…lol! Sue me! But…. -As long as women continue to be Coerced into sex/assaulted/raped/killed for denying sex to men -As long as women get shamed/fired/denied growth opportunities for reporting harassment -As long as the fear of being shamed/fired/denied a growth opportunity/being labeled liars prevents women from reporting and pursuing justice for harassment/assaults/rape -As long as women who are otherwise capable think they need to sleep with a man (or are seen as getting where they do because they slept with a powerful man). And: -As long as men continue to use their physical/economic/societal power to coerce women into sex they do not want -As long as sexual predators especially those targeting under 24’s (girls and boys )exist -As long as we continue to believe that women are not sexual beings who do not know their own bodies/needs/wants and that when they say no they do not mean it and need convincing/coercion/or forced sex -As long as we continue to delude ourselves that there is due process when a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct -As long as we refuse to believe that the ways we socialize boys’ attitude towards sex harms girls.. Some of us will happily accept the “mental mob justice” crowd label. Well put!!!! Nonsense. Anyway, when someone lodges unsubstantiated claims against you in the media, you'll be begging for due process, I guarantee it. Classic text book case of deflection..Less than 10% of sexual assault accusations are false. but let's ignore the more than 90% that are true.
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 602
|
Sansa wrote:I think we need to revisit consent with this tea analogy that has been shared before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8
If you ask your friend, “Hey, would you like a cup of tea?” and they go, “OMG, f*ck yes, I would f*cking LOVE a cup of tea! Thank you!” Then you know they want a cup of tea. If you say, “Hey, would you like a cup of tea?” and they um and ahh and say, “I’m not really sure…” then you can make them a cup of tea or not, but be aware that they might not drink it, and if they don’t drink it then — this is the important bit — don’t make them drink it. You can’t blame them for you going to the effort of making the tea on the off chance they wanted it; you just have to deal with them not drinking it. Just because you made it doesn’t mean you are entitled to watch them drink it. If they say, “No, thank you,” then don’t make them tea. At all. Don’t make them tea, don’t make them drink tea, don’t get annoyed at them for not wanting tea. They just don’t want tea, okay? They might say, “Yes, please, that’s kind of you,” and then when the tea arrives they actually don’t want the tea at all. Sure, that’s kind of annoying as you’ve gone to the effort of making the tea, but they remain under no obligation to drink the tea. They did want tea, now they don’t. Sometimes people change their mind in the time it takes to boil that kettle, brew the tea and add the milk. And it’s okay for people to change their mind, and you are still not entitled to watch them drink it even though you went to the trouble of making it. If they are unconscious, don’t make them tea. Unconscious people don’t want tea and can’t answer the question, “Do you want tea?” because they are unconscious. Okay, maybe they were conscious when you asked them if they wanted tea, and they said yes, but in the time it took you to boil that kettle, brew the tea and add the milk they are now unconscious. You should just put the tea down, make sure the unconscious person is safe, and — this is the important bit — don’t make them drink the tea. If someone said yes to tea, started drinking it and then passed out before they’d finished it, don’t keep on pouring it down their throat. Take the tea away and make sure they are safe. Because unconscious people don’t want tea. Trust me on this. If someone said “yes” to tea around your house last Saturday, that doesn’t mean that they want you to make them tea all the time. They don’t want you to come around unexpectedly to their place and make them tea and force them to drink it going, “BUT YOU WANTED TEA LAST WEEK,” or to wake up to find you pouring tea down their throat going “BUT YOU WANTED TEA LAST NIGHT.” Great lesson for all.. The most mind blowing sex is of the “OMG, f*ck yes, I would f*cking LOVE a cup of tea!" variety..Trust me..
|
|
Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
So Weinstein also ate Lupita
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|