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Presidential results final say ; constituency RO or IEBC HQ
Rank: Elder Joined: 4/9/2008 Posts: 2,824
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Gathige wrote:FRM2011 wrote:
Don't know who else has been following this but AG made his submissions yesterday. Today, it was SC Orengo's time.
But ignoring the legal acrobatics, lets attempt a sober look at this thing. I know its a bit late for sober discussions but no harm trying.
Let me give a practical example with one of my stations. Mathira constituency in Nyeri. We have three serious contenders, Peter Weru, Rigathi Gachagua and Wambui Maranga. Each has a realistic chance of winning.
Biggest polling station in mathira is called dairy office. Here each of the above guys will send his best and most trusted agent. NCCK will send its observers, ditto any international observer. The MCAs fighting for town ward, the outcome of this single station will determine who wins. I will be hovering around myself.
Presiding officer(PO) starts by tallying the presidential votes. Of course 99% go to Uhuru. The agents are more concerned with local contests. But they note the presidential tally as an indicator of turnout.
As he opens the ballot box for MP, the tension rises. If total votes cast for president was 2,100, then a variation of over 10 votes will invite trouble from the agents.
In a nutshell, the PO has almost no headroom to engage in mischief of any kind. Plus there is a very strong disincentive hanging over the PO's head. He knows he is a small fish, he is dispensable and the only thing he wants is the kidogo chums from IEBC and by September he is back to his teaching job.
The above scenario plays out across the whole country. That's why you can trust form 34 signed by a PO and witnessed by agents.
Why would anyone wan't to adjust such figures ??
I too doubt anyone would want to adjust the figures even after all the agents have confirmed and signed the whatever form. All he has to do is to send to Chebukati who will then collate for the presidential vote and declare the winner. Ama namna gani. Are we going to have situations where agents for some candidates are not allowed in some areas / stations? This is the animal in the house. If agents of all candidates will be freely allowed everywhere then form 34 suffices ...otherwise shida tupu irrespective of whether Chepkati or the constituency ROs are the ROs of the presidential vote. When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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kingfisher wrote:Gathige wrote:FRM2011 wrote:
Don't know who else has been following this but AG made his submissions yesterday. Today, it was SC Orengo's time.
But ignoring the legal acrobatics, lets attempt a sober look at this thing. I know its a bit late for sober discussions but no harm trying.
Let me give a practical example with one of my stations. Mathira constituency in Nyeri. We have three serious contenders, Peter Weru, Rigathi Gachagua and Wambui Maranga. Each has a realistic chance of winning.
Biggest polling station in mathira is called dairy office. Here each of the above guys will send his best and most trusted agent. NCCK will send its observers, ditto any international observer. The MCAs fighting for town ward, the outcome of this single station will determine who wins. I will be hovering around myself.
Presiding officer(PO) starts by tallying the presidential votes. Of course 99% go to Uhuru. The agents are more concerned with local contests. But they note the presidential tally as an indicator of turnout.
As he opens the ballot box for MP, the tension rises. If total votes cast for president was 2,100, then a variation of over 10 votes will invite trouble from the agents.
In a nutshell, the PO has almost no headroom to engage in mischief of any kind. Plus there is a very strong disincentive hanging over the PO's head. He knows he is a small fish, he is dispensable and the only thing he wants is the kidogo chums from IEBC and by September he is back to his teaching job.
The above scenario plays out across the whole country. That's why you can trust form 34 signed by a PO and witnessed by agents.
Why would anyone wan't to adjust such figures ??
I too doubt anyone would want to adjust the figures even after all the agents have confirmed and signed the whatever form. All he has to do is to send to Chebukati who will then collate for the presidential vote and declare the winner. Ama namna gani. Are we going to have situations where agents for some candidates are not allowed in some areas / stations? This is the animal in the house. If agents of all candidates will be freely allowed everywhere then form 34 suffices ...otherwise shida tupu irrespective of whether Chepkati or the constituency ROs are the ROs of the presidential vote. We all know NASwa strongholds will be no go zones. In 2007, sadly, even police officers lost their lives in these areas on voting day. Its not laughing matter we know the entire script
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Jubilee to set up a parallel vote tallying system. This will counter any shenanigans baba and his Nazists/nasaists would be up to. By this, they will verify all votes cast. http://www.the-star.co.k...om-47-counties_c1574010
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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kaka2za wrote:FRM2011 wrote:
I am also assuming most of us know the myth mostly told by our guys that there were two million people who only voted for president and no other seat is not true.
The biggest variation in votes cast for the president and other seats was in Meru county. And it was only 5,000 votes.
Back to presiding officers. In case of a dispute, a petition will almost likely result in criminal prosecution. While the IEBC commissioners are untouchable, the PO will find himself in a lot of trouble.
You mostly sound reasonably objective but you occasionally get flippant I am actually a very objective person. The 2M dead voters lie was started by Robert Alai. You know those outrageous allegations that only Alai can make. Guess what, todate no one has ever rebutted that allegation with numbers. Imagine in some jubilee counties, presidential tally was less than for governor. But for the last four years most kenyans from both sides of the divide believe there were ghost voters. Thats not to say the poll was clean. There were instances where a summision of all form 34(polling station) could not agree with what the RO at the constituency had captured in his form 36. This was actually the basis of the supreme court case. But that is now water under the bridge. In Kajiado south, Form 36 indicated Uhuru had 24,000 votes and Raila 17,500 votes. Funny numbers but only form 34 from the stations could tell us whether those were the actual votes.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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You may have missed the tone of this thread, but right now we are trying to share our thoughts on how we can have a fair and transparent process. So transparent that the loser wont bother going to court. Before you came thumping your chest, this is what @limanika had asked. "Are we going to have situations where agents for some candidates are not allowed in some areas / stations? This is the animal in the house. If agents of all candidates will be freely allowed everywhere then form 34 suffices ...otherwise shida tupu irrespective of whether Chepkati or the constituency ROs are the ROs of the presidential vote."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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FRM2011 wrote:You may have missed the tone of this thread, but right now we are trying to share our thoughts on how we can have a fair and transparent process. So transparent that the loser wont bother going to court. Before you came thumping your chest, this is what @limanika had asked. "Are we going to have situations where agents for some candidates are not allowed in some areas / stations? This is the animal in the house. If agents of all candidates will be freely allowed everywhere then form 34 suffices ...otherwise shida tupu irrespective of whether Chepkati or the constituency ROs are the ROs of the presidential vote." The good thing is that ohuru has subchiefs, chiefs, DOs, OCS's in every corner of the country and therefore he will get accurate information about the voting at each and every polling station in the country. However perennial loser baba may not have agents in strongholds such as kamagut and ghatondo.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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My take, if the court rules that the PO form/report is official/final ..... then they will start campaign fear targeting POs that if your form is wrong then you will be own your own... small fish tingz. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Angelica _ann wrote:My take, if the court rules that the PO form/report is official/final ..... then they will start campaign fear targeting POs that if your form is wrong then you will be own your own... small fish tingz. No way PO's and RO's are going to announce presidential results...who will tally??? Whoever tallies has last word...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Angelica _ann wrote:My take, if the court rules that the PO form/report is official/final ..... then they will start campaign fear targeting POs that if your form is wrong then you will be own your own... small fish tingz. You are one smart girl. The POs will be subjected to a campaign of fear and threats should they engage in any mischief. And the threats will be on both sides. Jubilee threatening POs in Siaya and Baba threatening the ones in Gatundu. The R.O. for the constituency will also have a hard time. Take kilifi north. Jubilee will be eagerly waiting to see whether Mung'aro has brought votes ama ni kukula pesa. So, at the jubilee tallying centre, someone will have tallied all the form 34s from Kilifi north. Should the R.O. try any monkey business, he will get into trouble right away.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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FRM2011 wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:My take, if the court rules that the PO form/report is official/final ..... then they will start campaign fear targeting POs that if your form is wrong then you will be own your own... small fish tingz. You are one smart girl. The POs will be subjected to a campaign of fear and threats should they engage in any mischief. And the threats will be on both sides. Jubilee threatening POs in Siaya and Baba threatening the ones in Gatundu. The R.O. for the constituency will also have a hard time. Take kilifi north. Jubilee will be eagerly waiting to see whether Mung'aro has brought votes ama ni kukula pesa. So, at the jubilee tallying centre, someone will have tallied all the form 34s from Kilifi north. Should the R.O. try any monkey business, he will get into trouble right away. Not quite. Highest bidder it is.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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limanika wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:My take, if the court rules that the PO form/report is official/final ..... then they will start campaign fear targeting POs that if your form is wrong then you will be own your own... small fish tingz. You are one smart girl. The POs will be subjected to a campaign of fear and threats should they engage in any mischief. And the threats will be on both sides. Jubilee threatening POs in Siaya and Baba threatening the ones in Gatundu. The R.O. for the constituency will also have a hard time. Take kilifi north. Jubilee will be eagerly waiting to see whether Mung'aro has brought votes ama ni kukula pesa. So, at the jubilee tallying centre, someone will have tallied all the form 34s from Kilifi north. Should the R.O. try any monkey business, he will get into trouble right away. Not quite. Highest bidder it is. Good point. I had thought about it and here are my thoughts. At IEBC hqs, 1B would be enough to be shared by all the critical guys. And these guys can keep quiet. At the polling station, the PO will be counting the votes loudly. Someone will record that and everyone will have a photo of the form 34. To buy the silence of all these guys would present a logistical nightmare. You are talking the PO, his deputy, and 8 clerks. Then at least 12 agents and several observers. Throw in at least 4 cops and NYS guys. To buy the silence of at least 20 guys for each station would be outrageously expensive and you can't guarantee they will all keep quiet. You are talking over 500,000 guys. BTW, am thinking of future elections as well. 2022, 2027 going forward.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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The good thing is that ohuru has subchiefs, chiefs, DOs, OCS's in every corner of the country and therefore he will get accurate information about the voting at each and every polling station in the country. However perennial loser baba may not have agents in strongholds such as kamagut and ghatondo. [/quote] Let me burst your bubble here. In Gatundu and every other jubilee stronghold, Baba will have eyes on the ground. I can't go into details but I will drop one hint for you ; False flag.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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Why cant the guy who has actually counted and tallied the votes announce the results .... What is the fear jameni yawa? In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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Angelica _ann wrote:Why cant the guy who has actually counted and tallied the votes announce the results .... What is the fear jameni yawa?  true the votes are counted at the polling station, that polling officer should have the final say, hi mambo ya kupeleka sijui kwa constituency tallying na sijui kwa national tallying should be done away with.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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What objectivity can one look for when adding up numbers, its a straight forward process, just that we love arguing and going round in circles over small things.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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FRM2011 wrote:limanika wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:My take, if the court rules that the PO form/report is official/final ..... then they will start campaign fear targeting POs that if your form is wrong then you will be own your own... small fish tingz. You are one smart girl. The POs will be subjected to a campaign of fear and threats should they engage in any mischief. And the threats will be on both sides. Jubilee threatening POs in Siaya and Baba threatening the ones in Gatundu. The R.O. for the constituency will also have a hard time. Take kilifi north. Jubilee will be eagerly waiting to see whether Mung'aro has brought votes ama ni kukula pesa. So, at the jubilee tallying centre, someone will have tallied all the form 34s from Kilifi north. Should the R.O. try any monkey business, he will get into trouble right away. Not quite. Highest bidder it is. Good point. I had thought about it and here are my thoughts. At IEBC hqs, 1B would be enough to be shared by all the critical guys. And these guys can keep quiet. At the polling station, the PO will be counting the votes loudly. Someone will record that and everyone will have a photo of the form 34. To buy the silence of all these guys would present a logistical nightmare. You are talking the PO, his deputy, and 8 clerks. Then at least 12 agents and several observers. Throw in at least 4 cops and NYS guys. To buy the silence of at least 20 guys for each station would be outrageously expensive and you can't guarantee they will all keep quiet. You are talking over 500,000 guys. BTW, am thinking of future elections as well. 2022, 2027 going forward. The presidential election, according to the said recent ruling, it's the RO, not PO, who has last word. In statistical dead heat election, if you can buy just few RO's who end up altering results announced at polling stations then youre home and dry. Of course by the time a case is brought you'll already have been announced winner and rest will be history from that point..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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limanika wrote:The presidential election, according to the said recent ruling, it's the RO, not PO, who has last word. In statistical dead heat election, if you can buy just few RO's who end up altering results announced at polling stations then youre home and dry. Of course by the time a case is brought you'll already have been announced winner and rest will be history from that point.. Another interesting angle. But wouldn't it be pointless considering the loser will have access to these altered figures and the accurate form 34S ? Supreme court will nullify the election straight-away. During the Kericho by-election, Robert Alai circulated a copy of polling station results as announce by the PO, then indicated a different figure as captured at the county headquarters. Someone from IEBC had to clarify very fast that the said polling station had more than one stream. With evidence to back his clarification. This election we are likely to see extensive citizen involvement. Unless someone switches off the internet.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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FRM2011 wrote:limanika wrote:The presidential election, according to the said recent ruling, it's the RO, not PO, who has last word. In statistical dead heat election, if you can buy just few RO's who end up altering results announced at polling stations then youre home and dry. Of course by the time a case is brought you'll already have been announced winner and rest will be history from that point.. Another interesting angle. But wouldn't it be pointless considering the loser will have access to these altered figures and the accurate form 34S ? Supreme court will nullify the election straight-away. During the Kericho by-election, Robert Alai circulated a copy of polling station results as announce by the PO, then indicated a different figure as captured at the county headquarters. Someone from IEBC had to clarify very fast that the said polling station had more than one stream. With evidence to back his clarification. This election we are likely to see extensive citizen involvement. Unless someone switches off the internet. The win will be decisive in round 1 and we need not worry too much if the RO in Molo will disappear and only reappear at Bomas will a new set of results. There will be too much photoshops of results online, hilarious political commentary, blablabalaahhh and we all need to hold our cool until Chebukati makes his announcement! 700 of us will vote peacefully at our local chiefs camp and go home to wait for results! "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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Gathige wrote:FRM2011 wrote:limanika wrote:The presidential election, according to the said recent ruling, it's the RO, not PO, who has last word. In statistical dead heat election, if you can buy just few RO's who end up altering results announced at polling stations then youre home and dry. Of course by the time a case is brought you'll already have been announced winner and rest will be history from that point.. Another interesting angle. But wouldn't it be pointless considering the loser will have access to these altered figures and the accurate form 34S ? Supreme court will nullify the election straight-away. During the Kericho by-election, Robert Alai circulated a copy of polling station results as announce by the PO, then indicated a different figure as captured at the county headquarters. Someone from IEBC had to clarify very fast that the said polling station had more than one stream. With evidence to back his clarification. This election we are likely to see extensive citizen involvement. Unless someone switches off the internet. The win will be decisive in round 1 and we need not worry too much if the RO in Molo will disappear and only reappear at Bomas will a new set of results. There will be too much photoshops of results online, hilarious political commentary, blablabalaahhh and we all need to hold our cool until Chebukati makes his announcement! 700 of us will vote peacefully at our local chiefs camp and go home to wait for results! you vote at a Chief's camp? That in itself is unconstitutional In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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The more I read the legal arguments the more confused I get. Senior Counsel Orengo argued that the PO will announce the final results but Chebukati will declare the winner! Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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