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BAT Saga
Kratos
#21 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2015 8:56:29 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 1,694
alma1 wrote:
Kratos wrote:
cnn wrote:
alma1 wrote:
If anyone here thinks BAT is a good company, please raise your hand so we can know how much change needs to be in our education system.

That company has for the past 5 years been taking my children's money so it can sell me what the gov't says is bad for you. Did anyone miss the irony in that statement. Gov't tells you something is bad even has warnings all over, but heck, just smoke it, they are paying taxes not like Mastermind.

I know its always sexy to add baba and uhuru on comments in wazua but lets be honest.

If BAT was a mama mboga selling changaa, they would have been shut down eons ago.

It has taken me like 5 days of pain to get rid of the shit they sell from my system. If I become president, I will shut down BAT. Mara Moja.

There is no politician, none, absolutely none in the whole wide world who has not taken money from these sellers of stuff that is likely to cause cancer even in children who don't smoke it.

My hand is up high,for six years this great company has enriched my bank account.I will be mean if i do not thank you and fellow smokers for the dividends.Now go review that education system.
If there are warnings and you go ahead and indulge,don't you think the problem can only be with you?
You would make a great president,after closing BAT who would follow?,EABL to get rid of the drunkards maiming others on our roads?,heck even all the soda manufacturing companies packing sugar filled drinks which wananchi consume partly contributing to lifestyle diseases.
I wish you well in fighting your addiction,my other wish is for this 'scandal' to bring BAT's price far much lower for me to buy more on the cheap.


Thumbs up! There are people who know not the difference between ethical and moral.


If you are such a genius in investing I'd advise you to start selling cocaine..

People who go around spreading disease are not good people. It's like owning shares in an aids infested prostitute on Koinange street then coming here to brag about how bright you are.

There is nothing like a company that sells cancer being good.

But as they say, the morally corrupt have a way of making the most stupid arguments seems normal to them.

There is nothing to be proud about a company that is killing more people in the world than a lice infested crack head in Malindi beach. Sorry....But its the truth. Now suck it up you disease peddling shareholder.


Again, moral vs ethical. No one put a cigarette to your lips, held a gun up your face and told you to take a drag. Anyway this is besides the point on this thread.

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.” ― Walter C. Langer
safariant
#22 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:14:17 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 784
Location: ant hill - red hill
.
The greatest act of bravery is chancing a fart while suffering from diarrhoea
safariant
#23 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:16:13 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 784
Location: ant hill - red hill
Ngo slowly. .. eh hehe..

The greatest act of bravery is chancing a fart while suffering from diarrhoea
aemathenge
#24 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2015 12:05:53 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
In a nutshell, I take it that this is (was) a battle between Mastermind Tobacco and British American Tobacco.

So, who is fighting Keroche Breweries?

Link
murchr
#25 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2015 12:17:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Let us remember that we heard about "ngoing srowly" with Anglo fleecing.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
AlphDoti
#26 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2015 11:27:53 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
safariant wrote:
Ngo slowly. .. eh hehe..


@safariant, I found the below regarding the letter above.

Quote:
I always avoid getting personal or even political with Dennis Itumbi after the disappearance of Bogonko Bosire and how they treated it as a 'normal thing'. However, there is this BAT scam he has been trying to drag in Raila Odinga. Desperate to broaden 'corruption' that's currently engulfing it, Jubilee has roped in Raila ODINGA, the usual bogeyman for official cover-up.

Itumbi is using a letter written by then PS in PM's office Mr. Andrew Mondow to KRA to stop action on Mastermind. What Itumbi isn't saying is why the Office of the Prime Minister got involved.

BACKGROUND
BAT (British American Tobacco), a cigarette manufacturer bribed KRA officials to enforce punitive tax actions on Mastermind, a LOCAL cigarette manufacturer so as to monopolize the Kenyan cigarette market. Mastermind, having no other office to turn to lodged its case with the Office of the Prime Minister.

The office of the Prime Minister then WROTE THE LETTER Itumbi is peddling on social media. This letter RESTRAINED KRA (then already bribed by BAT) to stop its punitive tax action on Mastermind.
The result (which Itumbi is not saying) is that Mastermind, with Raila's intervention, survived.

RAILA THE BELIEVER IN LOCAL COMPANIES.
Now, unlike BAT, which keeps its profits in Europe and America, Mastermind is a local company.
The story of local companies in Kenya is a story of one incorruptible office stopping the overbearance of multinational companies from suffocating it out of business.
(1). It is the story of Keroche Breweries whose wars with EABL also ended on PM Raila Odinga's desk. Had Raila not intervened, Keroche would be dead. For this fact, Keroche has remained grateful to Mr. Odinga.
(2). It is the story that pitted Tuskys and Naivas against Indians (Ukwala and Nakummat). It is the story of Equity Bank and its decade long battle to break the banking ceiling in Kenya, then held by colonial era European/American banks.
(3). It is the story of every single start-up company with the potential to eat into a multinational company's market share.

It's flipside, that is, if there is no one to help such companies, they die. They get consumed by giant multinationals with connections to KRA or any corrupt regulatory body in Kenya. Safaricom remains a monopoly because of this.

Back to Mastermind. When you read the revelations (being exclusively published by business daily) nowhere in the bits and pieces does Mr. Hopkins (the whistleblower) indicate that he bribed Mr. Odinga, or Mr. Mondoh. This same man does however boldly indicate they bribed Martha Karua and Moses Wetangula (on behalf of BAT) to punish Mastermind.
In a sense, Raila Odinga stopped corruption. He stopped corrupt KRA officials from driving Mastermind out of business. He stopped PNU (now TNA/JP) cashcow (both Wetangula and Karua were high ranking PNU honchos).

Even more egregious, during this time, KRA commissioner for domestic tax was a Mr. John Njiraini. Well, the man got promoted!
Instead of Mr. Itumbi using his energies to push for removal of this Njiraini, now the KRA Commissioner-General, he is busy maligning the name of Mr. Andrew Mondoh and Mr. Raila Odinga.

The facts of the BAT scam (it is called BAT scam because it is BAT that was corrupting public officials to drive Mastermind out of market) is out there but the propaganda of it all is being peddled in here.

Friends, read this letter and tell me if you think Mr. Odinga didn't act in good faith, or, in accordance with the law:
sitaki.kujulikana
#27 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:21:42 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
In Kenya the fight against corruption/impunity is a zero sum game.
when one of our own is mentioned its all guns blazing to justify or defend the action. Its only wrong if it involves the other side.

Was reading about Deloitte and KPCU and one can see the level of rot even in the so called international private organizations.

We should just accept corruption is part of us and stop talking about the same.
ForSport2
#28 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2015 3:27:36 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/9/2015
Posts: 47
Location: +254
murchr
#29 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2015 3:34:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
AlphDoti wrote:
safariant wrote:
Ngo slowly. .. eh hehe..


@safariant, I found the below regarding the letter above.

Quote:
I always avoid getting personal or even political with Dennis Itumbi after the disappearance of Bogonko Bosire and how they treated it as a 'normal thing'. However, there is this BAT scam he has been trying to drag in Raila Odinga. Desperate to broaden 'corruption' that's currently engulfing it, Jubilee has roped in Raila ODINGA, the usual bogeyman for official cover-up.

Itumbi is using a letter written by then PS in PM's office Mr. Andrew Mondow to KRA to stop action on Mastermind. What Itumbi isn't saying is why the Office of the Prime Minister got involved.

BACKGROUND
BAT (British American Tobacco), a cigarette manufacturer bribed KRA officials to enforce punitive tax actions on Mastermind, a LOCAL cigarette manufacturer so as to monopolize the Kenyan cigarette market. Mastermind, having no other office to turn to lodged its case with the Office of the Prime Minister.

The office of the Prime Minister then WROTE THE LETTER Itumbi is peddling on social media. This letter RESTRAINED KRA (then already bribed by BAT) to stop its punitive tax action on Mastermind.
The result (which Itumbi is not saying) is that Mastermind, with Raila's intervention, survived.

RAILA THE BELIEVER IN LOCAL COMPANIES.
Now, unlike BAT, which keeps its profits in Europe and America, Mastermind is a local company.
The story of local companies in Kenya is a story of one incorruptible office stopping the overbearance of multinational companies from suffocating it out of business.
(1). It is the story of Keroche Breweries whose wars with EABL also ended on PM Raila Odinga's desk. Had Raila not intervened, Keroche would be dead. For this fact, Keroche has remained grateful to Mr. Odinga.
(2). It is the story that pitted Tuskys and Naivas against Indians (Ukwala and Nakummat). It is the story of Equity Bank and its decade long battle to break the banking ceiling in Kenya, then held by colonial era European/American banks.
(3). It is the story of every single start-up company with the potential to eat into a multinational company's market share.

It's flipside, that is, if there is no one to help such companies, they die. They get consumed by giant multinationals with connections to KRA or any corrupt regulatory body in Kenya. Safaricom remains a monopoly because of this.

Back to Mastermind. When you read the revelations (being exclusively published by business daily) nowhere in the bits and pieces does Mr. Hopkins (the whistleblower) indicate that he bribed Mr. Odinga, or Mr. Mondoh. This same man does however boldly indicate they bribed Martha Karua and Moses Wetangula (on behalf of BAT) to punish Mastermind.
In a sense, Raila Odinga stopped corruption. He stopped corrupt KRA officials from driving Mastermind out of business. He stopped PNU (now TNA/JP) cashcow (both Wetangula and Karua were high ranking PNU honchos).

Even more egregious, during this time, KRA commissioner for domestic tax was a Mr. John Njiraini. Well, the man got promoted!
Instead of Mr. Itumbi using his energies to push for removal of this Njiraini, now the KRA Commissioner-General, he is busy maligning the name of Mr. Andrew Mondoh and Mr. Raila Odinga.

The facts of the BAT scam (it is called BAT scam because it is BAT that was corrupting public officials to drive Mastermind out of market) is out there but the propaganda of it all is being peddled in here.

Friends, read this letter and tell me if you think Mr. Odinga didn't act in good faith, or, in accordance with the law:



Alphi, wacha upuzi. All companies should pay taxes period. If these local companies feel that they should receive special treatment, they should lobby govt thru parliament to ammend laws so that they can receive special treatment. Any other scheme out of that is corruption. Tax evasion punishable by law.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
AlphDoti
#30 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2015 3:56:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
murchr wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
safariant wrote:
Ngo slowly. .. eh hehe..


@safariant, I found the below regarding the letter above.

Quote:
I always avoid getting personal or even political with Dennis Itumbi after the disappearance of Bogonko Bosire and how they treated it as a 'normal thing'. However, there is this BAT scam he has been trying to drag in Raila Odinga. Desperate to broaden 'corruption' that's currently engulfing it, Jubilee has roped in Raila ODINGA, the usual bogeyman for official cover-up.

Itumbi is using a letter written by then PS in PM's office Mr. Andrew Mondow to KRA to stop action on Mastermind. What Itumbi isn't saying is why the Office of the Prime Minister got involved.

BACKGROUND
BAT (British American Tobacco), a cigarette manufacturer bribed KRA officials to enforce punitive tax actions on Mastermind, a LOCAL cigarette manufacturer so as to monopolize the Kenyan cigarette market. Mastermind, having no other office to turn to lodged its case with the Office of the Prime Minister.

The office of the Prime Minister then WROTE THE LETTER Itumbi is peddling on social media. This letter RESTRAINED KRA (then already bribed by BAT) to stop its punitive tax action on Mastermind.
The result (which Itumbi is not saying) is that Mastermind, with Raila's intervention, survived.

RAILA THE BELIEVER IN LOCAL COMPANIES.
Now, unlike BAT, which keeps its profits in Europe and America, Mastermind is a local company.
The story of local companies in Kenya is a story of one incorruptible office stopping the overbearance of multinational companies from suffocating it out of business.
(1). It is the story of Keroche Breweries whose wars with EABL also ended on PM Raila Odinga's desk. Had Raila not intervened, Keroche would be dead. For this fact, Keroche has remained grateful to Mr. Odinga.
(2). It is the story that pitted Tuskys and Naivas against Indians (Ukwala and Nakummat). It is the story of Equity Bank and its decade long battle to break the banking ceiling in Kenya, then held by colonial era European/American banks.
(3). It is the story of every single start-up company with the potential to eat into a multinational company's market share.

It's flipside, that is, if there is no one to help such companies, they die. They get consumed by giant multinationals with connections to KRA or any corrupt regulatory body in Kenya. Safaricom remains a monopoly because of this.

Back to Mastermind. When you read the revelations (being exclusively published by business daily) nowhere in the bits and pieces does Mr. Hopkins (the whistleblower) indicate that he bribed Mr. Odinga, or Mr. Mondoh. This same man does however boldly indicate they bribed Martha Karua and Moses Wetangula (on behalf of BAT) to punish Mastermind.
In a sense, Raila Odinga stopped corruption. He stopped corrupt KRA officials from driving Mastermind out of business. He stopped PNU (now TNA/JP) cashcow (both Wetangula and Karua were high ranking PNU honchos).

Even more egregious, during this time, KRA commissioner for domestic tax was a Mr. John Njiraini. Well, the man got promoted!
Instead of Mr. Itumbi using his energies to push for removal of this Njiraini, now the KRA Commissioner-General, he is busy maligning the name of Mr. Andrew Mondoh and Mr. Raila Odinga.

The facts of the BAT scam (it is called BAT scam because it is BAT that was corrupting public officials to drive Mastermind out of market) is out there but the propaganda of it all is being peddled in here.

Friends, read this letter and tell me if you think Mr. Odinga didn't act in good faith, or, in accordance with the law:

Alphi, wacha upuzi. All companies should pay taxes period. If these local companies feel that they should receive special treatment, they should lobby govt thru parliament to ammend laws so that they can receive special treatment. Any other scheme out of that is corruption. Tax evasion punishable by law.

I didn't know BABA is the law. All I see in that letter is a request to hold that move. I don't see where it said xyz company should not pay tax Sad
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